LadyBarbossa Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I know I am posting double here. But after looking at a couple threads of new pirate looks and the want to be historically authentic... Am I missing something about these outfits how they differ from Hollywood? I know I will drive you all nuts with this - again, what is Hollywood pirate? And how does it differ from some of the outfits we wear? I wish I could show you the pictures I have of the costumes from PotC; Curse of the Black Pearl. And with those as some encouragement to do research, I have been doing just that to see what's really authentic and to what decade. Some of the shoes I have seen were authentic to the era from PotC after close image inspection and rather surprised. Kudos to the costumers of PotC(which btw are Professional people and have the connections and the info at their finger tips, you'd be surprised what places out there helped with PotC). So... is one authentic to the Golden Age of Piracy IF their outfits range beyond the Golden Age? And look no different than the images I have from PotC? Some of these outfits - and no offense to the lot of ye - don't look exactly Golden Age. There are a few of you, however, I must compliment on for being accurate to the era and better yet, to a particular decade! And falling in with what Silkie said... it's true... out pirate attire never ends. :) And hence I can't really call Hollywood as bad, cause you have to admit, it gets your mind rolling and inspires to. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Petee Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I couldn't agree with you more, Barbossa. I think that there are just too many different types of kits to lump them in to two groups. I think what really gets to me is that, I don't want to be catagorized with the costume store, renaissance and belly dancer pirate that you see at alot of faires. I think its just in our human nature to catagorize things. The thing with POTC, is they are what pirates could of looked liked. The thing with the living history folks, is that they cannot use something in their kit unless it has been historically documented, no exceptions, in order to be accurate. We all know where I stand on boots, well instead of just taking the word for granted that they didn't ware them, I did my own research and came up with my own conclusion. I don't claim to be exactlly historically period, but I sure as hell ain't hollywood or fantasy ither. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casketchris Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 to clear things up on MY part when i use the term "hollywood pirate" i am not just refering to potc there are many other movies out there who have really bad costumes (i mean spures aside from a sea horse why do ya need them ) and yes many of the movies have great costumes the problem is most of them are not main figures in the movies... but i agree with patrick i thought this was for all pirate garb no matter what style Nautical acquisition and redistribution specialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I like Hollywood pirates.. PoTC movies were great and I'm aspiring to have a kit just like right out of the movie. I want like 5 or 6 kits of different time periods. Master and Commander had some of the most awsome costumes ever!! It's a little off from the Golden age, but when I'm able to walk onto the set of Master and Commander and look like I'm one of the actors, I'll be in heaven.. The skulls and fantasy blades and the thigh high musketeer boots with spandex pants and purple hats with chrome plated conches that say "ARGHHH," thats what they mean by Hollywood pyrates. If thats the type of pirate someone enjoys portraying, awsome! I might even have to make a Dread Pyrate Roberts' kit myself! After all this is the Pyracy pub....now where did I put my Cod piece? "Without caffine, I'd have no personality at all" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casketchris Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 ....now where did I put my Cod piece? oh you left it at my house Nautical acquisition and redistribution specialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Petee Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Don't worry mates, I'm not taking any offence. Just stating that there is a lot of gray space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casketchris Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 i agree, there is a huge gray space i just use the term "hollywood pirate" alot and i wanted to add my two cents on what it ment to me thats all Nautical acquisition and redistribution specialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I entirely agree that "Hollywood" is overused as a catch-all term to describe anything that's not an "authentic" pirate look. Perhaps some new dividing lines need to be established? Authentic: Clothing and equipment based entirely on actual historical evidence - written, pictoral, and archaeological. Hollywood: If we look at the costuming from various pirate films of the last 50 years there's a big range of quality, from the down-right crap to the almost correct. On the whole though, the better films have at least made some attempt to make their costumes believable, even if they aren't right. Perhaps "Hollywood" should mean outfits that aren't right, and make no pretensions of being historically accurate, but nonetheless don't look entirely out of place. See Chuck Heston's "Treasure Island" for the best example of how Hollywood can get the "feel" right. Farby: My least favourite type of reenactment. It pretends to be "authentic", but misses the mark by a while. It would include people who have great authentic kit, but from the wrong period; people whose kit is otherwise good but who just can't bear to be parted from one or two really wrong bits, and so start making up ridiculous stories or inventing spurious theories to support them; and those groups in which each individual might be pretty close to the mark but as a group they fail to give anything like the right impression, by having 6 well-dressed officers and 2 dirty seamen for example. Cosplay: People whose kit can be of any type or standard, but is the limit of their pirateyness. Fantasy: Neither authentic, nor Hollywood. The more silver skulls the better, and big is beautiful when it comes to swords. Long coats are essential and if it's possible to make them reach the floor that's even better. Neo-pirates: Pirate outfits are created by fusing together a mish-mash of pseudo-period clothing (which need not be historically accurate) and modern clothing. I have to say, I've seen some really awesome Neo-pirate outfits. Fancy-dress: A polite term which not only covers actual fancy-dress, but might also be used as a euphemism for "rubbish". Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnailGrave Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 i think you guys are starting a tern with the hole hollywood not hollywood thing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Naw, Foxe and the others are right. Honestly, it ruffles my feathers ::: takes hat off and adjusts the feathers::: with the loose bounds of Hollywood pirate. And more Hollywood films I usually observe for what is possibly historical and what is not was PotC (I can't compliment enough on the direction of Penny Rose for the costuming of those films), and Heston's Treasure Island (as Foxe pointed out), maybe a wee bit of Peter Pan (one Jason Isaacs is in) and even a couple things in Cutthroat Island (I said a couple out of the vast aray of attire there). Other than that... not much. There are some other period films, too, that I watched... but they are not as historical, not by a long shot. Classical films have a farby look most of all. But you have to admit, for as old as they are, those costumes ROCK! Then there are the 70's and 80's where those were so-so. 90's is where that was starting to catch on as to historical. And the better part is around 2000 is when historical looks was better. But Foxe has a good classification there. And the unfortunate part with Hollywood... is it's TOO wide of a range. I honestly have to say is PotC had some rock on awesome costumes and doing what research I have been doing to see how correct those outfits are, they are darn near spot on. Nearly. Just depends upon what decade you are looking at. And the ethnic appearances, too. I'm a foppish Hollywood (new style) pirate. I steer clear from Polyesters and the sort as much as I can and try to find fabric with at least 60% natural fabrics if not 100%. I'm a picky pirate. And will do what research I can to make the outfit look rather historical in appearance. Though, it might not be doccumented as historically authentic (again, I leave that to my Rev War reenacting) but at least when I look at engravings, and other images of information of the era, I use those looks and designs. Or try to. But, cause of that, would I be called Hollywood? No different than some of the newer movies that are coming out with that authentic look. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Diamond Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Such a stir! Though I am glad people are passionate about their hobby ~ While at PiP last year, I first heard a term, which to me best describes the purple satin and silver skulls crowd ~ Polyester Pirates. Oooh, shiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I'm a foppish Hollywood (new style) pirate. I steer clear from Polyesters and the sort as much as I can and try to find fabric with at least 60% natural fabrics if not 100%. Which raises another interesting point. When I'm explaining to newbies the need for the correct fabrics I point out that apart from historical accuracy, and the fact that different fabrics hang differently, there is also a safety consideration. At any event where there is a fire, or black powder weapons are being used, you REALLY want to steer clear of any man-made fabrics - and cotton ain't too good either. I've seen a couple of "near misses", and the results of one serious accident involving burny things and man-made fabrics. Without going into too much detail, musket + nylon bra = the only time I've ever been turned off by looking at a pert young breast. Just one more good reason why authentic is best Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 As to the man made fabric ...just do a burn test. you will see what melted plastic looks like ...should convince you to stick with the natural fabrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbonie Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I like Hollywood pirates.. ...The skulls and fantasy blades and the thigh high musketeer boots with spandex pants and purple hats with chrome plated conches that say "ARGHHH," thats what they mean by Hollywood pyrates. If thats the type of pirate someone enjoys portraying, awsome! I might even have to make a Dread Pyrate Roberts' kit myself! After all this is the Pyracy pub....now where did I put my Cod piece? thumbs up to you lad! im working on a frock coat now that is made with cheap upholstery fabric and looks very similar to my curtains, and i love it. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I like the "Hollywood" pirate also. Heck I like dragons and such but I also know when doing a historic event I need to lose the leather bodice and bucket boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 True enough, Silkie. Historically authentic... it's a challenge. And VERY pricy. Hence, I'm looking at insurance for my historical stuff! No, seriously! I've a LOT of money invest in all that... if anything happens to it... umm, replacing it all will be very pricy again. Ooh, I don't know, Foxe, about cotton. I've a good shirt made of cotton and I've used it around my carbine and has done good with it. Likewise with another cotton shirt. Cotton being cheaper now... but far more expensive then. Depending upon what the cotton be and from, etc. All in all, I've a good array of clothing with cotton, linen, wool, silk, and now velvet. :) The only closest I have to not 100% natural fibers is that new waistcoat of mine and that's half/half. But still fanastic. I guess I can't critic ye there, too much, Foxe. I'll explain to a lot of people about the importance of natural fabrics, too. Especially when I wear that black outfit of mine in the summer... everyone's sweating just looking at my outfit and I'm fine. Why? It's all cotton. Light, breathable and is SO holding up against the test of time. LOL... I think this 'll open up another thread - natural fabrics or man-made? Or why natural fabrics? :) ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 You (or anyone else) can be as critical of me as you like - as long as the criticism is fair I won't mind at all. When it comes to the effects of fire on fabrics, cotton is a darn site better than man-mades and no mistake, it just burns faster than linen so linen is slightly better. Linen is also a darn site cooler than cotton to wear. When I started reenacting linen was almost impossible to get hold of, and it was usually 2 or 3 times the price of cotton, so very few people then used linen. These days (and I'm not sure why) linen has become a lot more plentiful, and the price has dropped considerably, so that now, in the UK at least, there's maybe the equivalent of 1 or 2 dollars per yard difference in the price. Anyway, since this is a discussion about one's garb, rather than its fibre content, here's a pic of mine to get us back on track. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbonie Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 i think you look awesome, foxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I have to agree with Ed on the linen topic. I've done a lot of 19th century reenacting where cotton is the main textile. But when introduced to early period reenacting - Linen is the way to go! I don't think I'll go back to cotton now that I've experienced linen! There is a BIG difference in the way it breaths and wicks the sweat from one's body. And as always Ed, you look wonderful! Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Sweet baby Jesus! Foxe......will you marry me? Or we could just hang out so I can stare at your clothing!! "Without caffine, I'd have no personality at all" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 I argue that when someone is just starting out, cotton is acceptable.... it lets them figure out the cut and fit of period garmets, and if they make a mistake, they arn't out much money.... But once they have it figured out, then use period fabric.... My garb started out cotton, but now it is all linen, hemp or wool..... Funny thing... I had a cotton ticking waistcoat, lined with cotton.... my new one is wool lined with linen.... I'll give you three guesses which one is more comfortable..... Hollywood Pyrates should pay attention to the fabric content also.... why take the time to make a beautiful coat outta upulstery fabric that has a high content of man-made fiber ? .... it may look great, but will be way too hot to ever wear. Also, most man-made fiber, is just too shiney... I was looking at some linen, and couldn't figure why is had such a shine... checking the fiber content, it was 20% polyester..... (and at $15.00 a yard ! ) I'll stick with the "Fabric Store.com, I've gotten good service from them, and thier prices are good http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php?got...f&fabric_type=1 I also reciently made a pair of slops and a pair of trousers outta hemp..... WOW.... it is sooooo much nicer than cotton...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Sweet baby Jesus! Foxe......will you marry me? Or we could just hang out so I can stare at your clothing!! Not too close Kenneth, Foxe says he even smells like a pyrate! Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pogue Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Here, here on the hemp linen. My new pants are way better than the cotton canvas old ones. Nothing like a fine breeze on the ol' block and tackle. Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Why thankyou guys! But without my boots, sash, and piece of Aztec gold how ever will anyone recognise me as a pirate? (yes, my tongue was firmly in my cheek) And Pat, I quite agree about hemp cloth... it is sooo much nicer to wear than cotton. Out of interest, in that photo I'm wearing a linen shirt, linen-lined-lined waistcoat, unlined wool coat, hemp canvas trousers, and knitted woollen hose. I can wear that kit in all but the most extreme temperatures and be perfectly comfortable Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pogue Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Going off what Foxe said. I've always wondered what that many layers of clothing would be like in tropical climates. It always looked a bit uncomfortable. Then I saw the History channel show on the little ice age, global warming and all that. It eventually lead to wondering if the reason they could survive wearing the layers of clothing that they did was because the temperature was bit lower than today. Just my ponderings on it. I just can't see putting more clothes while I'm still in Texas, even a waistcoat seems crazy. Either that or the decrease in pirates really doe relate directly to the rising global temperatures. Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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