Swashbuckler 1700

Note that Lezo lost those in naval battles. BTW in that the same Gartagena attack there was C. Ogle (who killed Black Bart) and the brother of G.Washington... not sailor or even gaop but 16th C lady http://es.wikipedia....oza_de_la_Cerda

New book is better that this old So many errors or (I would say that the "sample" of five pirates is wrong ).... This is better I HAVE POSTED IT MANY TIMES I KNOW I KNOW in this picture the only thing what I don't agree is that the bottle is not green glass. Tricorn on the captain's head would be accurate enough but the fur hat is perhaps even more accurate. Leather cap is odd but perhaps accurate. Let us stop this is silly converstion it is just a one book and writer and I have nothig against neither. I actually think that illustration in it are good I would say bit naturalistic but good. I hope no one hurt or I did not embarrassed myself too badly.

As I said, I think we all recognise the difficulties of the language barrier and I for one applaud your English. I don't imagine any of the English speakers on this forum speak Finnish half so well as you speak English. Misunderstandings can therefore be overlooked. So, here is a genuinely intended tip: In English, to refer to someone as 'that Rickman guy', or something similar (which I notice you have done more than once) comes across as very dismissive, as though you think he's worthless. I'm sure that that was not your intention, but that's how it is likely to be read. To call someone by their full name, or just their surname, is simply polite and respectful. ok He is not worthless ( at least no more that I am) but while he has made good and deep study I don't think that he is too good book maker. After all the "Pirate the Golden age feels more like a lecture of that what H. Pyle has made wrong in his pictures and not a serious pirate book. While I am only average (or below that) artist myself I think that G. Rava (who made illustrations to "pirate the gaop book) is not at his bets when describing the pirate era.

I don't Indeed you are correct sorry for that. But I am just irritated since that book has got in many to good reviews that I think that it need some critisims as well. The Book is much more true than false. Yes I have made too many complain messages about it.... Well to be honest " Four eyed Davy" in pirate forums "ruined" my summer of 2011 and I spent best parts of my holiday to prove him wrong since he had some odd opinions that did not suited to me and I in that time took everyting too seriously. That was true but no real accusation towards him. That was actually the starting point to my more deeper pirate study since before that I trusted many writers like Gordingly without criticism but I have spent circa 10 years of my short life to pirate study ( I have done other things too of course and really deebly it has been only a year) and eventually I asked Foxe about many ( too many ) things and joined here. So that I am here to irritate or to delight you is Davids fault or merit. But I hate calling people with all their names and I don't take that as impolite way. It seems that where ever I go and what ever I do I get misunderstood. Since it happens so freguetly reason is mine and not the others.

I repeat that I have nothing against David Rickman or his works but I don't agree with him in few small things (like trump caps and blue clothing etc.)

Indeed he is quite right and I am not mocking him. Like I said new book is more accurate that that so it is step to the better. I am perfectionist.... I think that the newest book made by those gentlemen is the most accurate one made yet so little compliments to them..

Since this was the easiest clothing topic to find I post one thing here: This is from Scourge of the Seas - Buccaneers, Pirates and Privateers made by Angust Konstam I AM NOT USING THIS AS A SOURCE OR ANYTHING BUT I JUST WANTED TO SHARE CONSTAM'S OLD PIRATE CLOTHING VISIONS until he got influenced by one Rickman named guy ( who changed his visions more accurate but still Konstam's newest book is far from perfect but it is less bad that this book which btw had even more inaccurate illustrations that what H. Pyle had ever made) Still in this text there is no wery big errors. DRESS Pirates were seamen, and their appearance was the same as·that of other seamen of the early 18th ~century. While 'landsmen' of the period wore knee breeches, stockings, sleeved or sleeveless waistcoats and long coats, seamen wore their own distinctive attire. Short jackets Cfearnoughts') were popular, often cut from a heavy blue or grey cloth, and in bad weather heavier canvas coats were sometimes worn. Some illustrations show sailors of the period wearing a form of waistcoat (red or blue), either sleeved or sleeveless. Shirts were either plain linen or checked, frequently in blue and white. Knee breeches were replaced by canvas trousers or 'petticoat breeches', cut a few inches above the ankle, resembling the culottes of the French Revolution. These were reportedly cut from a 'heavy, rough red nap'. Both forms of trousers were sometimes coated in a thin layer of tar as protection against water. Shoes were often discarded altogether on board ship, although a pair would be reserved for visits ashore. If stockings were worn, grey wool was the usual form for seamen of the day. A neck scarfwas commonly worn, reflecting a style common with labourers on land during the early 18th century. Headgear consisted of either a knotted scarf, a tricorne hat, a woollen 'Monmouth' cap, or a form of foul--weather hat resembling a 17th--century 'montero' cap. Headgear was of vital importance as protection against the sun in the Caribbean or off the African or Indian coasts. As well as plundering the cargo of a captured vessel, pirates would also take clothing, retaining what suited them either to wear at sea or as a suit of shore--going finery. There are records of pirates facing execution wearing velvet jackets, breeches of taffeta, silk shirts and stockings, and fine felt tricornes. These were probably taken from captives or made from plundered materials. Even in the austere navy of the time, sailors retained well--kept clothes to wear when in port. It appears from several accounts that many pirates also wore their finery when they were at sea. Pirate captains frequently adopted the dress worn by successful merchants, giving the wearer the appearance of a gentleman. This meant wearing breeches, a waistcoat and a long outer coat. Both contemporary accounts and later illustrations support the evidence for the adoption of this gentlemanly persona. One pirate captain based on Madagascar was described in 1716 as 'dressed in a short coat, with broad plate buttons, and other things agreeable, but without shoes or stockings'. The leader in piratical elegance was Bartholomew Roberts, who, according to Johnson and contemporary accounts by his crew, 'dressed in a rich crimson damask waistcoat and breeches, a red feather in his hat, a gold chain round his neck, with a diamond cross hanging to it'....

Indeed. I had interesting conversation about this with Brit.Privateer and he had quite similar thoughts. While I was doing my thesis about african slave trade to high-school I noted it is bad that in western countries the subbejct is so shamed that sources are still liitle hard to get ( especially neutral ones). It too bad that in neutral conversation in web accusing other nazis, racist etc. without reason is far too common while conversation has been neutral.

Indeed some Africans were even officers like John Julian or Black Ceasar but it seems that often Africans were slaves Truth is far more complicated that some "whydah people" want us to believe u know the " blacks were equals aboard pirate ship" junk...

About striped shirts they were English fashion too see my first link of Foxe's Statistics about English sailor's clothing. And jenking was probably a pirate not a less or that was what the Spaniards believed.... And actually we cannot be sure was it even his ear since when he showed cut ear to the politicians he was wearing a large wig. Latter Jenkins info is from a book that I have studied for my high school thesis (about Atlantic slave trade) book is quite new but on other hand old from 1970s About striped shirts they were English fashion too see my first link of Foxe's Statistics about English sailor's clothing. And jenking was probably a pirate not a less or that was what the Spaniards believed.... And actually we cannot be sure was it even his ear since when he showed cut ear to the politicians he was wearing a large wig. Latter Jenkins info is from a book that I have studied for my high school thesis (about Atlantic slave trade) book is quite new but on other hand old from 1970s http://abilita.fi/fredrika/title_items.aspx?bid=9510000833 &kcode=&bcode=&acode= but you don't get much info out of it since it is mostly Finnish but original French author is there....

This is from book the pirate ship 1660- 1730 ( Osprey but...) A Danish (hmm. interesting) victim of Bart R recalled: " The said Roberts' ship manned with about 180 white men and about 48 French Creole negroes...

It is just a loose fitting white or red jacket or vest. It don't have sleeves .... I wonder what is the " sombrero" to me it is almost tricorn but who knows... Those caps are interesting I like the rigth one ( since the left one is silly looking but I must accept that often historical clothing was not too cool looking)

Indeed Quite true but I have used to think that it is dangerous to make " genereal rules" about the pirates or their ships. Actually a quite many pirates had large or medium ships the small ones were a little more popular but that is not so simple.

poor animals in this Hogarth work from 18th C Fencing in 17th C man in 1710 man circa 1710 ship in early 18th C early 17th C musketeers Gentleman circa 1700-1725.

Hi it is interesting that so overused in pirate movies stripes shirts are not 100% inaccurate. But it seems that gaop the striped shirts had bit different look that the Hollywood ones. Once again I am wondering clothing as the historical issue so I have no need to pattern etc. http://pyracy.com/in...ilors-clothing/

Here are similar ones in 1720 I think that is just the way of coloring things with stripes so popular in the period note e.g the landscape is colored with the stripes.

The small number of Africans is odd. It seems that some crews had not Africans at all but others had sometimes almost 50%. Like La Buse's Robert's or Bellamy's crews. Roberts (if my memory serves me right) had Greeks aboard and there is hints of the Spanish too . You may disagree but I think that in this case it is silly to put as accurate percents as 6.9% why not put just 7% since they are only for illustrative purposes. That list seems to be good and there is still almost 10% non British men (or cononial Americans), BTW "Americans" does those mean only English colonies or Dutch, Spanish and French too? Sorry is spelling was bad but I made this in hurry.

Indeed Foxe .... Good list but periods are missing. Whydah was one good multicultural pirate ship it had e.g Dutch, Swedes, native Americans (only really few) and Africans.

I know that there were crews that had British, French, Belgians, Swedes, colonial people, Indians (native Americans), Dutch, Spanish, Germans and lots of Africans etc. But the most of the gaop pirates appeared to be British, Africans, French or Colonial Americans and the other nationalities were much rarer. Or am I wrong?

I was meaning would the over 200 eyars old food eatable....

Good quote which tells much about the sea life .... ”Those who had no teeth, or bad ones". Are there much old biscuits left? I have found only one picture and it is late 18th C biscuit. I am just asking for fun. Hmm I wonder would it taste good ... http://www.rmg.co.uk...php?f=D4001.jpg

Russian roulette is that old.. hmmmm Who was the pirate who tore the guts out of the one victim's belly? Low, some of his company or someone else? But this question is more about other torture.

I was wondering was there a common habit to sailors to do drawing or other stuff like carvings, aboard ship. Now I mean normal sailors not people like Dampier who did pictures of nature. I know that in later age of sail sailors did lots of wooden carving or carvings made from whale’s tooth etc. but what about Gaop and pirates/ sailor? I am asking most period documentation now and just for fun.

FWIW: Rifling is known from the mid 15th century. I said that there were some rifles in 16th C and I was right. But they were more common in 18th C and later.

Does the white piping mean that the edge of the hat was white?