Swashbuckler 1700

I think both made enough splinters to cause damage. Even muskets were quite a guns. One clear example that men prefered firearms. I have heard from many (Yankee) documentaries that the musket could take your leg off but they are (too often) not be trusted( since the style is so often too scandal-seeking). This is not topic but is that a myth that the musket can took one's leg off?

John Greenwood - Sea Captains Carousing in Suriname 1750s The South Sea Scheme by Hogarth ( 1721) I see that there is small wigs already in use. Not odd since they came in fashion in 1710s but took long time to them to replace the big wigs. http://jcb.lunaimagi.../what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/where/[Amsterdam]/;sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=113&trs=272 Caribbean nature. picture made in 1671 http://jcb.lunaimagi.../what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/where/[Amsterdam]/;sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=149&trs=272 Taking of the Nuestra Señora de la Encarnación y Desengaño ( made in 1716) http://jcb.lunaimagi.../what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/where/[Amsterdam]/;sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=163&trs=272 Aye there is market day in Porto Bello. http://jcb.lunaimagi.../what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/where/[Amsterdam]/;sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=199&trs=272 ship building (made 1704). Interesting man with typical tricorn and coat and he can be captain but who knows. Nice stern that ship has already.... http://jcb.lunaimagi.../what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/where/[Amsterdam]/;sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=81&trs=272 Native American king greets Sir Francis Drake. Oh no he looks like 17th C man. Artist's error . http://jcb.lunaimagi.../what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/where/[Amsterdam]/;sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=51&trs=272 Tobago, Battle of, 1677. What a mess http://jcb.lunaimagi.../what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/where/[Amsterdam]/;sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=72&trs=272 There the Spanish got their silver. Made mid/ late 17th C

I post that picture here Late 18th C PTG Monmouth cap

I realized that there is very little talk here about sailor's fur hats. Once again I am not looking for patterns but I was wondering clothing as historical issue. I know that there is some mentions of pirates having fur hat/ caps but I would grateful if someone could share quotes. I have found plenty pictures of fur hats. It seems that they were popular ( but on the Bahamas or Madagascar perhaps not) Btw in picture 1 ( those are Dutch mariners from 1695) I think it is possible that there is earring (that left fellow?) but it seems it is not but who knows) I take back what I have said about checkered breeches after 1690s (somewhere). There is one pair in 1725 picture.

Oh is that so . Aren't you supercomputer who has all the answers at your fingertips? Searching old documents is the best life one can wish for... and Mission if you have cash buy a sword it would be good....

Since for some reason I cannot edit my latest post I need to put these pictures here. Following pictures are dutch sailor from 1695-1730 so clearly from Gaop. Note large number of PTGs

Here is nice Monmouth from early 17th C. Is there hints of PTGs? Btw it seems that there were many different styles of PtGs. Some were more round hat like ( e.g. the original hat of Peter The Great (the man)) and some more sloppy like what those two jolly Dutchmen have. If looking repros there is similar differences between PTGs. this is bit more round hat like or looser more cap like

I am thinking more along the lines of it being a badly drawn tricorn now than a bicorne (as I didnt realise they werent around then). The shading seems odd if it isnt shaped into at least a small point. The point seems to be on the back. And that point in front side seem to be curve what will born when head is in the hat.

What is the date of that image. It seems to be from 1700-1740s since there are so long periwigs.... sad to one book maker that those two men are not pirates back to that perpetual Admiral's hat issue I think only one (Pod) thinks that admiral's hat as bicorn ( no problem with that. there is need for different opinions and visions so I am not teasing here ) and most other think it as tricorn and at least me and Foxe that is backwards.

Nice stuff. If thinking swords None of them are in their full dress or their waist cannot be seen. swords were certainly taken of as were hats when operating as were hat like in picture II. Wigs were used it seems but not 24/7 so to speak.... So back to the tread I think that it is possible that some surgeons had even own swords.

Surgeons, particularly those who worked on ships, were usually lower-class gentleman. I don't know how such people would regard swords or why they would have one shipboard. On the other hand, I don't know that they wouldn't. It just seems like an odd thing for a surgeon to have, given that he had to deal with the results. Land surgeons and surgeons to royalty would probably be of a different social standing, although there was a definite aspect of the workman about all surgeons from what I've read. (Physicians, OTOH, I would figure to be inveterate sword-carriers based on what I read on the wiki.) I like wikipedia, I actually think it's far more correct than incorrect, but it gets a bad rap from individual instances of incorrectly-entered info. I didn't know a fashion plate was a real thing. (I looked it up on wikipedia, though. ) Just goes to show you what I know about clothing styles. (I wondered why all the people in certain types of images looked so damned goofy and effeminate.) okay Surgeons in many pictures don't have hat or wig ( correct me if needed). I think when aboard or working they would not use swords but on shore maybe. I think guite similarly about wiki. CORRECTION picture 3 is not perhaps a fashion plate but swords are common in actually plates from 16th/17th C to 18th C here are some pics http://pyracy.com/in...es/page__st__80 Here is one plate from late 1690s ( he is also taking snuff what was fashionable from 1680s onward ( I read that in R. Plat's book " pirate") and I think that doctors recommended it but that is your strong skill to tell about medicine )

What are you arguing against gentlemen’s sword? Fencing was also mainly gentlemen’s hobby and e.g. sailors were not too good at it. Indeed surgeons were not so fine blessed than even average gentleman. I think those are ”fashion plates" and not portraits. Read wiki ( yes it is wiki but it seems to be quite rigth http://en.wikipedia....iki/Small_sword) no bad feelings

You are not saying that no other woolen style were used than PTGs? yes? I wonder what many " wool" caps mentioned in period description are Classic Monmouths, PTGs or something else( likely all of these). hmmm.... one Interesting quote from 1699 slop shop's inventory and it reflects sailors headwear quite well "36 capps of severall sorts" ... And Grymm I know that that there is only one genuine Monmouth. I think that there's as many types of knitted caps as there were knitters. The is it a Monmouth or a PtG is a modern view/arguement, we digital age types(20th/21stC people) love to put things in 'boxes' nearly as much as we love a creation myth (Taters were introduced by ****on this date etc), both make for good books and telly, but the reality is usually far more blurred and confused. Indeed. were I live I see dozens of different caps on winter and many of them are still hand knitted. It seems that that was the case in gaop also. I wonder what these caps are? from late 17th century

What is your source for this? (Keep in mind that portrait paintings were often romanticized - cleaned up and made to look better than the truth.) You are irritating mood today aren't you? I was reading Chuck Wills' " The Illustrated History of Weaponry" And Well there were own sword type for gentlemen and it was "small sword". Illegal duels were problem e.g. in court of France On one meeting poster from 1740s says something like this: ”Dear gentlemen leave your swords at home that we would have more seats available.” Walking sticks were also fashionable and so were walking sticks with sword in them ( but these walking stick swords are more later 18th C stuff) men from 1690s man from 1715 Hogarth's from 1735

Practically all 17th- 18th C genteleman had swords. It seems that it was status symbol.

You are not saying that no other woolen style were used than PTGs? yes? I wonder what many " wool" caps mentioned in period description are Classic Monmouths, PTGs or something else( likely all of these). hmmm.... one Interesting quote from 1699 slop shop's inventory and it reflects sailors headwear quite well "36 capps of severall sorts" ... And Grymm I know that that there is only one genuine Monmouth.

I think that cap is the classic Monmouth cap like this one or many other ( google there is lots of pictures)

Believed to be a painting of Peter the Great (the person) But it seems that it was made by artist who did not saw him at the shipyards.... Also he has nice waistcoat/ jacket but hat is the main thing now....

Umm main character’s hat does look like tricorn why not it has 3 sides and all ( it is actually really similar than in one admiral in one picture.....) BTW Does the man who point hanged man has tricorn or fur hat i mean hat like this http://www.forumrare...C10DXFFRQ_2.jpg I think that that man with cat has classic Monmouth....

Foxe seems to be quite right Daniel Defoe, in his 1712 Tour Through the Whole Island of Great Britain,described as Monmouth caps being worn (or sold) predominantly by Dutch seamen. Hmm. I remember that one fellow (David. R) said once that it is illustrator's error in Dutch GHoP that Bonny and Read have Dutch "plug hats" ( meaning PTGs) but it seems that they were both Englishmen's and Dutchmen' style. ( see my posts before) Also looking pictures of Dutch GHoP they seems that Dutch had information about Englishmen since there is lots of trousers with pirates while they were not Dutch sailor's fashion. It seems that there were many styles of wool caps in Gaop including classic Monmouths and PTGs. I was wondering is that hat in this picture from 1747 classic Monmouth or PTG since there is not large difference between those two.

To sum up the hat conversation here I think that most of us think that it is tricorn/ cocked hat in that admiral picture. And it is likely backwards since the point seems to be on back.

So in Gaop and even earlier I could have heard whistling around me aboard ships. Is there any pictures of those early whistles?

I think too that that he brought this outfit back from Europe. I think the outfit is originally from England or Holland. These are likely to be PtGs http://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/JCB~1~1~1847~2850007:-Edward-Low-shoots-a-man-?sort=Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle&qvq=w4s:/what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/Pirates/where/[Amsterdam];sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=3&trs=22 these can well be http://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/JCB~1~1~1845~2850005:Anne-Bonny-op-Jamaica-Gevangen-?sort=Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle&qvq=w4s:/what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/Pirates/where/[Amsterdam];sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=2&trs=22 same with this http://jcb.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/JCB~1~1~1844~2850004:Mary-Read-op-Jamaica-in-de-Gevangen?sort=Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle&qvq=w4s:/what/Artifacts, industry, and human activities/Pirates/where/[Amsterdam];sort:Normalized_date%2CCreators%2CPublisher%2CTitle;lc:JCB~1~1,JCBBOOKS~1~1,JCBMAPS~1~1,JCBMAPS~2~2&mi=8&trs=22 and this is

BTW here some cavarly men use tricones backwards see (from left to right) III man and V man.... and date is 1704.... Now just stuff Here is some interesting pictures Alexis Grimou [1678 - 1733] - Young Man Playing a Recorder Famous really old soldier Thomas Hiseland probaply when he was a Chelsea pensioner circa 1730(?) Somebody has nice picture gallery of late 17th century clothing on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/44890094@N08/sets/72157622836818796/with/4272966919/ Edmond Halley's diving bell of 1716

Is that so? I think that in Gaop ale or beer ( what is difference between these two?) was not even considered as real liquor ( even in medieval times even kids drank beer). And aboard ship there was little else good to drink than beer and tea.....