JoshuaRed

Hi gang - In my travels online I came across this, thought it was interesting. It's from "The Annals Of Philadelphia", published by John Watson in 1830. In it, he interviews old timers who grew up in the mid 18th century, and they share their recollections of daily life. Concerning sailors: So perhaps there is some truth to Jack Sparrow's leather tricorn? Or would you say this passage refers to round leather skullcap-types?

C'mon -- everyone knows the kids clothes were saved for the monkeys!!

Here's the rub for me: pirates were above all, sailors. Whether from the Navy, a merchant ship, a fishing boat, or any other water trade. Through various means, (usually desertion, mutiny, or assimilation by capture) they wound up on pirate vessels. But suddenly putting "pirate" on your business card doesn't change the person you are, nor does it drastically change the nature of your work. You're still a sailor. Only now you seize ships illegally instead of legally. (if coming from a warship or privateer) Or maybe now you chase merchants instead of mackerel. Sure, you get to enjoy a more relaxed lifestyle in terms of discipline, but the work to just survive at sea and get from A to B is still the same. I just don't see most formerly dirty, grimy, hard-working jacks becoming dandy fops who are more obsessed with tracking down high-fashion than ready money, for the purpose of sticking it to the man by daring to wear his clothes. I think they were focused on other things. Like drinking. And women. And gaming. Those soften a hard life far better than silk ribbons and red heels.... Look at the various Red Sea pirates that booked passage back to the mid-Atlantic in the 1690s in hopes of settling down in the countryside around New York and New Jersey. They had a helluva hard time trying to settle ashore in peace. The minute people got wind of their loot, they became victims of blackmail and extortion. Many were forced out of hiding this way and lost everything, winding up at the end of a noose. That is precisely why they DIDN'T want to stand out ashore. This is why I'm a fan of Marcus Rediker. I think he calls it pretty well.

It is sad. It's like that chunk of time just kind of fell thru the cracks. I find it very hard to get info on Queen Anne's War in general, AS COMPARED to other conflicts on either side of it. But we do know what was worn/used/coveted/bought/stolen BEFORE 1680 and AFTER 1730...and one can simply use those points and work inwards to 1700, coming up with theories and inferences...OR one can say "it was a wild, lawless time where anything went, so I'm gonna justify my stuff as coming from a historical grey area". Either is fine, depending on your intent and goals.

If you want a fascinating read into what daily life in Puritan Boston was like, read the diaries of Samuel Sewall, pretty much covering the ENTIRE GAOP. While he did preside over the famous witch trial proceedings, he was also very repentant later in life, and publicly apologized & recanted for it. Kinda progressive for a puritan!

Aha! So that's where the "red leg" lyric in Tobacco Island by Flogging Molly comes from! It's all about the Irish who were rounded up and shipped to Barbados in the 17th C.

And for the record, Kass' Procuress is truly a great impression to behold!

Awesome, man, awesome. How heavy is the finished piece?

There is something to be said for being a Highwayman. You could base your kit off a Hogarth print, WITH boots...there are no knots to learn, no astrolabes or charts, no "Where's your ship?" comments....

That's the one. I was off by 8 years.

I have an engraving of a French grenadier (1680's I think) that I'll post when I get home. He has a large pouch slung over his shoulder, hanging on his left side, full of grenadoes. I'd say 8-10 of 'em. Had to be HEAVY.

Excellent summary Foxe! Thanks yet again. Your point about the West Indies not being the happening place where one would find a lot of high-fashion floating around is kind of what I was trying to push home with the 7-11 analogy. There are generally (apologies) a certain type of clientele who line up at 7-11 each morning to get their coffee, while generally a different type line up at the Starbucks down the road. The 7-11 being the Colonies, the Starbucks being London. And as a GAOP sailor/pirate, you would be right there in 7-11. The odds of you seeing a Starbucks person rolling in for their venti latte at 7-11 is pretty slim. And if they did and you decided to help yourself to their clothes then get back in line with your peers for coffee....well, I think you'd be opening yourself up for a lot of torment and teasing, if not theft against you. It's also been said that sailors in general took great pride in their disdain of lubbers, and probably went out of their to NOT look like them, instead of emulating them. Just felt like a waking up with an early morning post, sorry.

Petee, you nailed it. And in the GAOP, the Atlantic & West Indies colonies were one big 'hood. (Compared to the more "civilized" homelands of Europe) And one doesn't strut around the 'hood in Armani & Gucci and expect to keep it on their bodily selves for very long. It's asking for a lot of attention and trouble that I'm willing to bet most interlopers, smugglers and pirates didn't want while ashore.

Oh you should check out Rediker - not necessarily for the info we're discussing, but just in general. It's good stuff. For me it's just that a Tombstone full of Wyatt Earps & Doc Hollidays is a very skewed picture ya know?

Very true, Greenighs. That's where the money is. Look at Master & Commander vs. POTC. For all we know, Cordingly may have bowed to outside pressure from his editors to spin his book more towards the fancy pirates. Just as Bruckheimer probably had to pull in the reins a bit to please Disney. (Not that Bruckheimer cared about authenticity in the least. But I do know that he was planning to make a hardcore, gritty pirate film before POTC came along and swallowed that whole plan) I think a big part of the issue is that we tend to think pirates had a lot more fun doing their thing than they actually did.

Just another note on shore-leave. If you look at the many period engravings and paintings of late 18th C and even Napoleonic-era privateers going ashore in their "finery"...you'll find that it consists of their short jacket, some clean trousers, standard shoes, maybe a nice hat and a cane. Sailors loved their canes. I doubt the level of "finery" was much better a century earlier. In other words, based on what I've seen, my theory is that a sailor's finest was just a clean and well-kept version of his working duds.

Oh my, now you've done it..... Never thought I'd see Kass being called out! I don't know that I'd call Cordingly's book "one of the top sources on pirates". It's a decent entry-level primer, and Cordingly is a good aggregator of the standard period accounts. But even just a little digging beyond his work will make his generalizations obvious to the researcher. The best thing to do with books like that is dive straight into the bibliography and collect THOSE sources.

Do you honestly think that pirates sat around in a circle on the deck having a "stitch n' bitch" with their shipmates, seeing who could make the prettiest waistcoat out of the Sultan's finest bolt of silk?

That is exactly what I meant, Hawkyns, thanks. Birds of a feather, ya know? If I am a pirate, I probably frequent rather unsavory places like Port Royal or Tortuga. Places rife with other criminals who wouldn't think twice about knocking me in the ditch and taking that crushed velvet brocade justacorps and lambskin bucketboots down to the fencer for some quick cash.

Yeah! Here is my take: Look, if I have a dirty, tough, manual labor job, and moonlight as a crook robbing the occasional liquor store or 7-11, the odds that some guy who even OWNS a tuxedo & Rolex, let alone wears it to a place like 7-11 will stroll across the parking lot on the very night I am staking it out to rob are SLIM TO NONE. AND...if said richie actually walked across the parking lot towards the store for a late night Slurpie, and I jumped him, knocked him on the head, ripped off his tux and Rolex for myself.....WHY in the heck would I wear that ensemble the next day back at my ditch-digging job along the interstate? Furthermore, if I am a sundry low-life type like a pirate, why would I parade around my fellow peers consisting of thieves and robbers while wearing something that they just might decide to relieve ME of?

LOL the Puritans may be long gone, but boy does their general philospy live ever-on in New England! Up there north of the Cape they still disdain outsiders & all things "flashy or glitzy", work too hard, don't play enough, and go to bed too early.

Thanks, headed over there now!

Forgery - HA! Bloody brilliant Bo!

Yeah I'm with Pat 100% on this -- that post makes NO sense whatsoever in terms of trying to construct an explanation for wearing boots. Sorry LT.

Mind dropping that link to the PB forum once more? I'm the loser that hasn't bookmarked it yet.....