dasNdanger

Bear with me...these pictures are old, and from different 'stages'....but perhaps they can give you a few ideas. I really wanted beams on the ceiling, with gratings in the center and lights behind them, and have the walls 'paneled' to look like the interior of a ship..but I'm lucky if I get hubby just to paint the room! Keep in mind that nothing in this room is expensive. The two wall 'cabinets; were cheap finds in a second-hand store (one is a spice cabinet), the barrels I got fairly reasonable at 'antique' shops, the model is a cheapy - nothing is really 'antique'...but when you stick a bunch of old, dusty stuff together, it kinda works. Blocks and rope are fairly cheap and easy to buy, pewter can often be found REALLY cheap since it's not very popular right now (I look for Early American bicentennial-fad rejects), fake coins, cheap costume jewelry in a rustic chest, wood bowls from a flea market...just collect stuff as you go. View the room as a work in progress, and just pick up things that give the 'illusion' of age, even though they are not old. EDIT: The bed is a captain's bed - a twin size. My hubby fits in it and he's 5'11". The 'shrouds' I bought for about $8 at an 'import' store, and some items are from Authentic Models. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...ger/shiprm1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...er/shiprm21.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...er/captdesk.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...ger/shiprm3.jpg das

Well that would certainly make sense (there is also a 'Modera' in Sri Lanka...however not sure when the it was named such). My Spanish-speaking friend said that a double 'd' doesn't exist in the Spanish language, but that could just be a mistaken English translation. All the other 'related' words madera (wood), and Modera have the single d. Also, a misspelling of Madras or Madieras seem very likely possibilities. So, a traditional leather shoe made in one of those places, perhaps, and not a specific style - that would surely make sense. Does this mean I can let the whole 'modderas' thing rest?? Everyone has been so very helpful - I love a good discussion that explores all possibilities. True, we can't discover all the answers, but I think it's clear that there is a bit of wiggle room allowing for personal taste and choice. We will never really know how many men preferred bare feet to shoes while working on deck, or what alternatives they may have come up with...although it appears that a regular shoe was the most likely choice. Pictures and eyewitness accounts are not always reliable, and there are relatively few in relation to the number of pirates that roamed the seas during the time period in question. You know, in three hundred years, if the ONLY documentation of modern society to survive are copies of Vogue, folks might think that everyone today dressed like Paris Hilton. On a side note, did anyone ever see the issue of Omni magazine from the 1980's when they spoofed an archaeological dig of a modern (in the 1980's) community?? It was a RIOT!! They thought toilet seats were some sort of neckwear with attached headdress, and toothbrushes (because many had a hole on the handle) were ornamentation. Imagine that - pirates with toothbrushes dangling from their ears...Now THAT could be the start of another great discussion... Feel free to add any additional info you might find on this subject, and thanks so much for all the input so far! das

okayokayokay...I'll behave and have a go at this... How do I feel RIGHT now: Driven to figger out what the heck 'modderas' were... Concerned that all my friends who suddenly came down with a stomach bug today might have passed some nasty puke germ onto me Irritated that I haven't figgered out what 'modderas' are yet Contented that my house is all neat and tidy Frustrated that no one else knows what 'modderas' are... And slightly embarrassed that I seem to have so much in common with Monk... das

How do I FEEL??? With me hands, mate....with me hands!! das

okay - here is a WILD speculation on the 'modderas'. Could it be related somehow to this shoe"" http://birkenstocks.sandals4less.com/madera/ The spelling is different and of commercial origins (as opposed to traditional), it's a modern shoe and I doubt has any direct connection to the one we are trying to figure out, but still....is there any way to find out when and where this style of 'fisherman's shoe' developed??? I tend to believe that this 'modderas' is of Spanish origin, perhaps something more casual than a fine leather shoe. das

Thank you again!! Yeah, I am very interested in this subject and would appreciate any additional information you can find. The flat soles would, I think, create a problem under certain conditions, but could the heel actally help in the rigging?? Dunno. If I have something specific, I will certainly contact you in PM... Could you ask your friends about the earlier mention of modderas, and what that could possibly mean?? That is something I am very curious about - discovering the unknown... Here's to ya!! das

Hmmm...so piratical sorts DID wear sneakers (trainers), eh?? Thanks again. I would be interested in knowing exactly what sort of shoe this might be - the style, etc. On a side note, I pulled an old National Geographic book off the shelf (Men, Ships, and the Sea) - published back in 1962. I hadn't given this book much thought because I figured the information in it would be lacking. However, it has some rather interesting pictures. The first pages of the book are photographs of sailors around the world (c. 1962) - the crew of a dhow in the Indian Ocean, men working a galley in the Persian Gulf, fishermen on a Chinese junk - and most, if not all, are barefoot - even the men on the junk straining at the windlass. Later in the book is a painting entitled "Death of Lord Nelson" by Denis Dighton (1792-1827), and it portrays officers and marines in shoes, but most other seamen in their bare feet (and working the guns, no less). Of course, this was painted well after the GAoP, but still could be a valuable reference to go by. Clothing styles may change, but a seaman's habits probably remained fairly consistent over the centuries. It seems from pictures of modern sailors in the tropics, and from the one at Trafalgar, sailors did and still do work the ship in their bare feet. Therefore, I think it would be safe to assume that at least some sailors went barefoot when it was practical or preferred, and had probably done so for ages, especially in warmer climes. das

Thanks, cap'n!! Just one question - when you say 'simple' shoe, are you referring to the heeled leather shoe sans buckle (perhaps laced as Foxe suggests), or something even more simplistic, such as currans/pampooties?? Thanks for the information!! (Foxe - forgot to mention that I appreciated the expense breakdown of the various items. Guess shoes weren't quite as dear as some other items, eh? ) das

LOL...nuffin' like toasted shoes wif a little toe jam on da side... das

And a final pondering for the night... In doing research on 'sandals', I came across information that indicates currans (cuaran), revelin, pampooties, etc. were sometimes referred to as 'sandals'. Now, looking at pictures of 'currans' c. 1700, they could almost look like the 'slipper' some sailors seem to be wearing. I wonder if such a simple shoe was used by sailors (since many sailors were of Scottish/Irish ancestory, it IS possible they brought this style of shoe aboard ship). Of course, this is all wild speculation, and I'm still amazed at the lack of information in the books I have, and also online regarding styles of seaman's shoes. das

okay - doing some more checking on 'modderas'. I asked a Mexican friend of mine, and he said Moderas sounds like a surname. So could this 'modderas' be like a 'brand name', a style of footwear (if it was, in fact, a shoe) named after whoever made it, or after a region or place, like a 'Panama' hat? Again, a lot can change in 300 years... also, I found an interesting link, dealing with a period a couple hundred years earlier: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/calderon/clothing.htm If you look through this link, you'll see reference to 'hemp sandals' that the Spanish made - I wonder if they ever had a specific name? Also, whalers in more recent times seem to have worn a hemp shoe (c1820-1880). Since hemp was used prior to and after the GAoP, could it be possible that some sort of hemp slipper or sandal was worn aboard ship to save on wear and tear on good leather shoes?? I am in no way suggesting that such was the case, just wondering. I find it interesting that in my research on shoes for sailors, there is precious little information. Great detail is given to uniforms and slops, even to hats and the buckles for shoes, but very little description of any footwear - nary a mention of boots, shoes, or anything else. Also, I have noticed before in several illustrations (not sure of the dates of the illustrations), that many pirates seem to be wearing something that almost looks like a 'slipper', with a pointy toe. Now, I'm guessing that this is just the artist's way of getting around the footwear problem if he hadn't a clue as to what they wore, but could it also be some sort of informal shoe?? (if anyone has a piccie of what I am talking about, I'd appreciate it if you could post it. One such picture is that of the pirates riding the monks, and the other is that of the officer tied to the mast, bottles hurled at him as he's shot) - sorry, no idea where I can get me hands on these pictures at present. *goes off to do more research* das

Wow, thanks Foxe...exactly what I was looking for!! First, about Morgan's men - thanks, I knew I had read that somewhere, but couldn't remember for the life of me who it was about! Okay - now everything you say seems to make sense. I'm interested in what the 'modderas' may be?? In Spanish a similar word means 'moderate, slacken, or cool'....but we know how languages can change in a few hundred years. But now I'm wondering if these 'modderas' could be some sort of working shoe?? But the other information is excellent - just what I was trying to find out. Thanks so much, gonna go off and research some more... das

What does it matter? Primates? I never suggested such a thing. Footholds or no, I only wondered whether or not a person who is used to going about barefoot (climbing barefoot, walking barefoot, doing anything else barefoot) would start wearing shoes once aboard ship. My sister, for instance, (although not a primate or a native) climbed trees and rode horses in her bare footsies all the time. She preferred it that way, it's what she was used to. Yo - back down a bit, K? I didn't use the term 'native' in a demeaning way, just as a contrast to 'Europeans'. In fact, let's just forget the whole stupid coconut/barefoot scenario as it seems to be taking this discussion in the wrong direction... Yes, I agree that feet must be protected. I have also said that it seems logical (by MY standards) for shoes to be worn for such protection, especially considering how deadly even a small scratch could be back before the discovery of antibiotics. But again, we can't put today's standard of living on that of people 300 years ago. Shoes were not mass-produced in factories back then...there wasn't a Payless on every corner...there were no on-line suppliers ...there was a limit to their availability. Men were at sea for months, even years, at a time (though pirates were not as likely to go that long without going ashore). Leather soles wore out, stitching rotted apart, toes broke open. I tend to adopt a favorite pair of shoes ane wear them daily until they fall off my feet, and most (leather, canvas, or man-made material, doesn't matter) last me less than 6 months. So, I'm trying to figure out how a sailor, doing much harder work than I do and with far fewer options when it came to replacing his shoes, made his shoes last. I figger the average shoe would last about 6 months at sea and with continual wear before starting to fall apart. So, although I agree that shoes would have been worn for certain tasks...I would be surprised if they wore them continually, day in, day out (unless they were cobblers by trade). So, IF (and ONLY IF) they didn't wear them continually, what would be the alternative? Barefeet? Stocking feet? Cloth? A sort of slipper or sandal (seems rather unlikely)? Old shoes that were only good to 'beat around' in? Worn-out sneakers tied together with duct tape? BUCKET BOOTS? Or did a man just wear his best shoes until they rotted off his feet, and then went in search of a new pair? das

Wow, thanks everyone for your input... Now, back to my original question before it gets all tangled up in the riggin'.... If the men did have shoes, would they have 'saved' them for going ashore? For instance, I'm thinking of JR's red heel thread...if a pirate did have such a pair of shoes, would he have worn them while performing everyday duties, or something else?? Was there any other sort of 'shoe' a sailor would wear to preserve higher quality shoes for fancy dress? I can imagine, as privateer suggests, that a sailor might wrap his feet in cloth. But would there be anything else worn? Barefeet on deck, especially in the tropical heat seems possible. But then we go back to the threat of injury, and the fear of infection - would they risk barefeet? As far as going aloft, I can imagine that some might actually prefer barefeet (esp. any seaman of 'native' origins. A man used to scampering barefoot up a coconut palm would probably do the same in the rigging. But I would think a man of European background might prefer to be shod). I know working on just a small schooner I'm always stubbing me toe on something. We have to wear shoes (when carrying passengers) - usually sandals with a backstrap. No flipflops allowed. But when no passengers are about, the crew often go barefoot (mind you, with no tops'ls, they don't have to go aloft in the normal fashion, but only by way of a bo'sun's chair when necessary). But this is modern day - with cheap shoes available to all, safety regulations, etc. I'm trying to figger out the mindset of the early sailor/pirate. We live in a throw-away society, they did not. Everything had value, even if it was falling apart. To preserve a 'good' pair of shoes makes sense...but then we need to ask how many shoes DID they have?? One pair? Two? More? Or did they even share shoes when times were lean?? Where did I read - fact or fiction - that one pirate crew ate their leather shoes to avoid starving?? I don't want to put modern man's shoe collection into a pirate's seachest. Sure, stealing shoes from captured vessels, or buying them from pilfered loot, may have increased their availability, but would they risk wearing them out while performing daily tasks? Don't mind me - I'm just thinking aloud. Many of my above musings have been answered...but I guess I'm looking for more specifics, based on shoe cost and availability 300 years ago. So, anyway, continue discussing, please, and don't mind me... das

Ferrets? You're in the wrong forum, Lorien! The real question is did pirates keep stoats, goats and shoats on their ships? Ok, we know some kept goats. (Not going any further with that.) No, no, NO!!!! The real, REAL question is did they ever go NEKKID??! (and then entice everyone with imaginary pictures of the event ) Sheesh. Pirates. Teases, the lot of 'em... das

Didn't know ye buttered yer biscuit on that side, mate...but hey, whatever floats yer boat... *passes Royaliste the catsup* das

*raises hand and waves wildly...climbs up in desk and jumps up and down* OO!! OO!! ME!! ME!! I do, I DO!!!! Well, maybe not eat him...but I sure wouldn't mind lickin' 'im clean... das

Jus' discussin' sailor's shoes wif me pa-in-law, an ol' salt himself. And he said that since shoes were often a status symbol, a sailor/pirate wouldn't likely be wearin' 'em on a slippery deck, but only for going ashore. I mentioned how pictures show the men in shoes, and he said that was an 'artist's representation' because it would be 'disrespectful' to portray the men barefoot. He said shoes were highly valued, and would have been 'saved' for more formal occasions. He used the illustration of how kids in the south would carry their shoes to school, then put them on once there, just to prevent wearing them out. Now, running around barefoot on the deck does seem more practical, especially in warmer climes, but I want to know if this was the case on ships, especially pirate ships - barefoot on deck, and shod in towne? And what about other footwear on deck - was there anything else that may have been worn while working or at leisure but not worn in town?? Or were shoes worn at all times to prevent any sort of foot injury (slinters, cuts, etc.) that could turn septic and lead to an untimely death or amputation? Jus' wonderin' what the books say... das

okie dokie - thanks. I was finding it all a bit confusing when doing the dreaded 'on-line' research because sometimes there would be a mention of a 'crowbar', but no pictures, no explanation, no nuttin'! Here is one place I read it, but keep in mind the dates are much later: http://www.polkcounty.org/timonier/luckey%...%20bag/bag.html (scroll down to gunner's tools) Another source - there is a mention of it in one of the 'diagrams', but in scanning the text, I can't find where or how it would be used. http://www.navyandmarine.org/ondeck/1800gundrill.htm Neither of these sources, as far as I can tell, say that the 'crowbar' is iron, but it seems to be distinguished from the handspike, and not the 'same as'; and in other references to crowbars or crows used aboard ship they are often referred to as 'metal' or 'iron'. One reference about land artillery reads: 'The rider on the limber pulls the retaining pin, uses a crowbar-like spike to pop the cannon trail off the limber, and leaps off'. Okay - none of that would have a bearing on a ship's cannon, I don't think...but could a 'crowbar-like spike' be called a 'crowbar' and used for something similar - perhaps not during battle, but in general maintenance, adjustments to carriage, etc. , knocking the powder monkey over the head for funsies...?? das

K - So, perhaps they were used when necessary and/or available, but certainly not exclusively for positioning the gun... thanks, much! das

Thanks everyone, for your input... Now, I have another silly question. I have read of both 'handspikes' and 'crowbars' being used. I realize that in many instances a handspike might be referred to as a 'crowbar', but in a couple of instances there seems to be a distinction between a wooden handspike and a metal crowbar being used in connection with cannons. Not many references, and most are from the 1800's. My question is this: was an iron crow ever used c. 1700 in the training/maneuvering of a cannon?? das

Thanks, cap'n... I have a question on Round Shot and Rammers - does this go into detail about not only the history of cannons, but also gun handling, tools of the trade, and so on?? Just wonderin'... das

I'm familiar with the raid - de Graff is my favorite pirate of all...but hard to find info on (usually). It was the origin of the song I was most interested in...if it actually was written at that time and for that reason. I have read other bits about it originating hundreds of years ago - but this is the first time I heard of a connection with de Graff, and was just wondering if anyone else had heard of it in connection with his raid... das

(feel free to move to another forum if this isn't the right place for it) In searching for information about Laurent de Graff (Laurens; Lorenzo, Lorencillo), I came across this information. Can anyone verify if this is true? I'm not of fan of the song, and so was never aware of it's colorful origin. Article below from: La Bamba La Bamba is supposed to have been written by "El Guaruso", a native from Tlalixcoyan nearby Veracruz, on or about the 17th of May 1683, as a result of all preparation carried out by locals in the Hacienda Malibrán to defend themselves of an attack by epoch-famous pirate Lorenzo de Graft "Lorencillo". On 17th of May 1683, Lorencillo's fleet: 11 vessels and about 1200 men, having been spotted on the horizon by locals, warning was immediately given to the Hacienda where people quickly gathered at the toll of a bell to let them know the news: Lorencillo was about to strike the area and they were all in for robbery, murder and assault on local women. Spanish origin Doña Beatríz del Real, owner of Hacienda Malibrán and mulatto Malanga his loyal foreman, Doña Beatriz thought that people would not be able to fight Lorencillo back because they were not mariners, however, mulatto Malanga replied time and again that if they were not ... they will have to become... to defend their people, after a bit of hesitating they decided to prepare their defense, just to find out when they were "ready", that Lorencillo and his people had passed through .... in their way to Veracruz about 10 miles north. All of the above was observed by El Guaruso who was a self-made musician that improvised better than wrote music verse accompanied by his Jarana (local guitar). It is said that with the taking of the bell's toll call event, the brave stand of people pretending to become mariners to fight Lorencillo and some others facts, The Guaruso quickly composed La Bamba and played it right away during the night "celebration" they had at the Hacienda... probably at that very same hour, Lorencillo was taking Veracruz, killing some 300 people and doing during four days what pirates did best... robbery, murder and assault on local women, they fled when they spotted the sails of the spanish fleet commanded by Diego Zaldívar. On the upper left, San Juan de Ulúa Island. [picture on site] Below in the picture above, the wall surrounding Veracruz for defense purposes can be seen. decision for the construction of the wall was taken in 1684, a year after Lorencillo's attack. Lorencillo's raid to Veracruz made authorities react and decide to finish construction of the San Juan de Ulúa fortress, started back somewhere around 1565. Lorencillo's assault to Veracruz is said to have been design at the Roatán Island among a group of pirate leaders like Agrammont, Lorencillo, Van Horn, Michel and Pedro Bot. Pirates attraction for Veracruz must have been due to the fact that from there, spaniards embarked gold and wealth of whatever value for them, to be taken to Spain. Before Lorencillo, back in 1568, pirate Juan Aquines Acle disembarked at San Juan de Ulúa but was quickly ushered out by Spanish General Francisco de Luján and his fleet of 23 vessels and well trained crew sank all of the pirate's vessels. das

Isn't it widely accepted that Laurent (Laurens) de Graff (Lorencillo) was of European and African ancestry?? Anyway - here's some info I found on the National Geographics kids' site. The artwork is modern, and the information is rather simplistic, but it gives some leads where to dig deeper for factual information: Pirates and Sailors: Black History on the High Seas By Sarah Ives National Geographic Kids News February 02, 2004 Blackbeard, Samuel Bellamy, William Kidd—the names of famous pirates remind people of parrots, treasure, and adventure on the high seas. But the fact that many pirates were African-American is often left out of U.S. Black History Month celebrations. W. Jeffrey Bolster, a history professor at the University of New Hampshire, works to teach people about African-American sailors. This painting shows two pirates who traveled with Captain Kidd. The African American at top may have been second-in-command. During the 17th and 18th centuries, Bolster said, as many as 30 percent of sailors were African-American. At sea, African Americans worked as cooks, musicians, skilled sailors, and unskilled workers. On whaling ships they often worked as harpooners, hunting whales with spears called harpoons. African Americans also worked on pirate ships. John Julian piloted the pirate ship Whydah (WID-uh). When Blackbeard fought to his death, 5 members of his 18-man crew were black. And at one point Captain Kidd appears to have had an African American second-in-command During the golden age of pirates (1680-1725), African Americans were often forced to work as slaves on land. But on sea they may have had more equality. Before the American Revolution, Bolster said, "pirates were much more democratic" than most people. Pirates often voted for their leaders. And, Bolster explained, "they sometimes elected black sailors to positions of authority." Bolster doesn't know of any African-American pirate captains before 1725. But, he said, "there were black captains in the late 18th [and] early 19th centuries." Bolster added that even though pirates were more democratic, they were not color-blind. African Americans also experienced racism at sea. Pirates sometimes forced unskilled African Americans to work as slaves. Whether harpooners or pirates, African Americans played an important role in the history of sea travel. They worked on fishing boats and transport boats throughout the New World. They also served on boats in wars such as the War of 1812. To learn more, check out W. Jeffrey Bolster's book Black Jacks: African American Seamen in the Age of Sail Here's a link to the site: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/kids/20...ackpirates.html das