dasNdanger

Explanation of the Green Banana of Tortuga: In POTC, when Jack is inspecting his crew on the dock, Johnny/Jack is holding a green banana in his hand. There is no obvious reason for Jack to have this banana, and there has been wild speculation about it's meaning - mostly the *wink, wink, nudge, nudge* double entendre stuff. However, doing a little detective work, I discovered a possible explanation for the banana. In a 1996 Playboy interview, Depp said the following about filming certain scenes: DEPP: Who knows what goes on underneath the table, outside the frame? I may have a feather duster down my pants. It's not necessarily sexual, either. If I'm having a difficult time with a scene, getting too serious, I like to take a handheld duster or maybe a wrench, shove it down my pants and play the scene that way. Any object that doesn't belong--it takes your mind off the seriousness of the situation. Just when you're bursting into tears you realize there's a dust mop in your shorts. PLAYBOY:. So there are multiple tracks in your head. One's in character while another is sending out dust mop alerts. DEPP: Yeah, and the other actor knows, too. That can add spice to the scene. I've used tools, fruit, a little squeegee that creates the sound of flatulence. It doesn't have to be in your pants, either. In a close shot where they cut you off at the elbows, say, I may have a banana in my hand, or some guy's shoe. The interesting thing here is that on the DVD commentary, Depp said that while filming that dock scene, he was not happy with Verbinski, the director...so I suppose he was 'having a difficult time with that scene and getting too serious', and decided 'take his mind off the seriousness of the situation' by carting around that banana! In an episode of 21 Jump Street there is a scene where Johnny has a banana sticking out of his pocket for no obvious reason, so I guess this is a pretty common 'prop' for him. silly boy... das

nnooooo...the other direction mate, not up the hill...he's down in the valley of the jolly, ho-ho-ho, Green Giant!! Sorry, it's late and I really should be in bed.... :) das

Where is he located in the Shire...eep...he's located RIGHT where I know he is...down, around, through, and over something... I THINK - if I recall correctly, he's located over near the ...how do I explain this? You know where the chessboard is?? Well, behind the chessboard stage somewhere (away from the hill) is a concrete pad with picnic tables and a canopy over it...he's near there, I believe. Dang - I wish I had my map of the Shire, and tried to bring it up on line but it wasn't liking me dial-up - and I forgot to pull it up on my high-speed connection at work. I am SO not helping with this, am I??? das

High-speed??? lucky you. *glares at 26K connection speed taunting me at the bottom of the screen...* I have seen a couple good 'wrecks', in fact my father-in-law has a dismasted model ship (forget which one after what battle) - and it's a beauty. I like the ghost ship idea, too - I think that's an image we've all had long before POTC - that of a tattered, shadowy ship emerging from the fog. If ya ever get her done, you gotta post some pictures for us to turn green over!! hehehe...wanna know what's even more funsies than THAT??!! Having ALL the instructions in ITALIAN!!! WOOT!! Thank GOODNESS for diagrams... das

Oh, I get THAT comment all the time... And yer shameless, too!! OOO!! Working on the Pandora??!! I have two kits just BEGGING me to start work on, but alas, I CAN'T SEEM TO GET OFF THE BLOODY 'PUTER!!!!!! grrr. My experience is limited - I did a small gun deck section for practice - came out pretty good. And years ago I re-rigged part of a model of the Constitution that my grandfather made back...geez...must have been in the '20's. It has some detail, but not as 'delicate' as the more intricate models. That was about 20 years ago, now the half that I didn't do has started to dry-rot, and lines are broken, and I really need to get to her soon or she'll start looking like the Black Pearl... Pirates of New Jersey: Curse of the Unlimited Internet Look! The derelict model shows us for what we really are. We are not among the self-disciplined and so we cannot assemble, but neither are we unskilled. For too long I've been parked in front of the computer and unable to turn it off. Too long I've been staring at a model ship kit and haven't built it. I do nothing - not the measuring of hull planking nor glueing the stanchions nor mounting the guns on the deck. You best start believing in lazy arses, PP, you've met one!! What are ya looking at?! Back to work! (Well, one of us has to get their ship built, and by all accounts, it won't be me!) das

O_o Whoa. Hmmmm....Hey! How about making me a boat...er...SHIP!! Any kind will do...nothing fancy... I have a dollhouse that my dad made, and apparently he's not a typical guy 'cause it's a two-story giant shadow box made outta plywood... No worries there...House Jack and the cat are going steady, and Office Jack has already been propositioned 5 times by a deliveryman... He keeps saying, 'I can't believe he looks that good and yet he's so cheap!' I think next time I'm just gonna tell 'em to get a room... das

Yup - I broke down and got meself a couple o' dollies. :) One stands at my office monitor with his oh-so-serious 'the boss is watching' face on, while the other guards my computer at home, grinning like a monkey. They each have their own pistol, sword, and compass, hat and rum bottle - but still...something was missing... So, I rummaged through a sack of leather scraps, got out the scissors and needles and gut, and made each of 'em their very own 'booty bag'! Then I dug into the bottom of my jewerly box, found a few broken chains and loose rhinestones and tiny fake pearls, and filled the bags up with the goodies. I was fortunate enough to find a few cheapie necklaces that had tiny little Jack-sized coins on them and bought a few gold-tone minatures at the doll house shop and, after some dissecting and divieing up, added it all to the loot! It fits just perfectly into his hand, and really helps complete the 'look'. But then... I found these little unfinished wooden 'treasure' chests, just the right size, that I'm 'aging' and getting ready to stain and finish so, that when I'm done, I can fill 'em up with even MORE swag (i.e. broken crap from my jewelry box, minatures, etc)! You know - it's bad enough I have these dolls in the first place, but NOW I'm making stuff for them too!! How pathetic is that??! And next on the list?? Well...I have the clay all ready to make each of 'em their very Green Banana (of Tortuga)! I REALLY need to get a life, but what fun would there be in that?? das

That be me, and if I may, I would like to explain why I suggested this (and yet another 'angle' 'cause it's not only about battles). Pirates, as we have all figured out, were sailors before switching to a more dubious career. As such, they did what most sailors did - they worked the ship, and probably did THAT more than they ever actually pillaged and plundered. So, if we're talking ratios when it comes to pirate clothing, the same should apply to their activities if you really want an authentic experience. To spend an afternoon sailing aboard a typical 'pirate' vessel (often they were smaller vessels like schooners) - perhaps sharing period food and drink with your mates (some vessels allow alcoholic beverages, some don't), challenging your skill with navigational instruments or knots, telling stories and singing songs and doing just about anything else you can think of - is about as good as experiencing what the average pirate did on the average day (with the exception gun drills, if they even did that on a regular basis). And since - as I understand it - most pistols and swords were under lock and key unless action was imminent (to prevent violence from breaking out aboard ship), checking one's 'weapons at the door' would be a rather authentic touch, I would think. I have a little story I'd like to share that happened to me last spring while working as a deckhand (volunteer) on the Meerwald. We were out on the Delaware Bay, heading in for the evening when someone shouted, 'A ship - and she's hull up!'. We all turned and looked and sure enough, there on the horizon was another schooner, her canvas a flash of white above the green-gray water. Speculation arose and the deck was abuzz about who she could be. She closed in fast, and soon the best eye on deck spied an ominous sign - the Jolly Roger was flying boldly overhead. In that instant I was transported back in time, and it didn't matter that I wore shorts and a t-shirt - and didn't have a pistol or pike. It was a thrilling 'ride' as she gave chase and everyone on board - crew and passenger alike - spoke excitedly about the smugglers and pirates who once roamed the very same waters so many years ago. With a bit o' luck we made berth before she could catch us, but as she passed she fired her single gun across our bow, a warning that we may not be so lucky the next time.... Yes - it did happen, JUST as I have detailed here. If ever I have had an 'authentic' re-enactment experience with a pirate, this was it...and had I been so fortunate to be in costume - even without a weapon in hand - it would have made the whole thing complete. In fact, this was not a re-enactment, but a chance meeting with another schooner (it just happened to be an old captain of ours and his mate, sailing his schooner up after wintering in the Caribbean). So who knows what might happen if you gather your mates together and go for a sail - you are only limited by your own imagination... das

OOO!! Rumba - that's lovely!! WANNA SEW SOMEFINK FER ME???! My ADD won't allow me to focus long enough to sew on a stooopit button, let alone do all of that!! Well done...well done, indeed... :) das

Oooo!! Would LOVE too - in fact, had the opportunity to buy a real one (it was mounted, not sure the seller realized it was a working flintlock) for about $125.00 - I don't think it was 'old', but can't be sure. I was SO tempted...but decided against it because, at the time, that $125.00 was too precious, NOW I'm kicking myself (of course, it was rather large...and would have been a #%$&@ to cart around shoved down me drawers). Perhaps someday I will. I do have concerns about actually having 'firearms' in the house, since I'm not used to it (besides that .22 rifle that my folks had stashed away in the utility room - the Rat Killer, we called it...) For now, I'm quite happy having all the 'authentic' fake gadgets...I might graduate up to something more impressive later on. Of course, I have an entire shaving kit even though I don't have a beard...so... das

*head spins* Wow, you guys are great. Okay - MORE questions.... If I take oil - what kind?? I have a small brass flask I could use for it - would that be okay, or should it be copper? I have a whisk and pick that I picked up at a Revolutionary War re-enactment - brass pick chained to a small horse-hair brush...would that style be appropriate?? I have seen some picks with bone or ivory handles, carved or possibly scrimshaw...with a 'wire' or thin rod stuck in it. Would something like that be more appropriate? It would be easy enough for me to make since I've done both carving and scrimshaw before. I know what a worm is, but what would one make it out of? What would be the average finished length? Where does one get tow these days?? (I might wait for the next reenactment because they always have worms, and I suspect tow, too - or I could just check the sutler's sites) I have spare fiints, some shot (but in Jersey it's considered ammo and hard to get unless I beg someone at an event for it), powder horn, cartridge papers and mandrel, and a leather priming flask I just found...wonder how I missed that - so it looks like I only need the worm, pliers (will look around for them) and turnscrew (do you have a picture of a period turnscrew - I have some antique tools, though I doubt anything small enough) and ball screw. Not too much to add, except for a proper cartridge box (I've seen rather large ones - about the size of a pop-up tissue box - or am I confusing it with the powder box?? If I am not firing the pistol (which I won't be anytime soon), I really wouldn't need the borelight, modern driver and the like, correct? And what about powder - can't take the real stuff into faires - what could I use as a good substitute?? Wow - getting excited about this - this is SO much more fun than talking about clothing!! (In real life I prefer hardware stores to Macy's, so this stuff is right up my alley!!) Thanks aqain, everyone!! das

I just pinched Mr. Das' booty - does that count as an act of piracy??! Yeah, I guess there isn't a lot one can reenact, eh? Wenching and drinking in front o' da kiddies might raise an eyebrow or three, right?? But what if, instead of gathering groups together for land-based activities, you gathered your group together and rented a schooner for a sail?? Even if you can't actually engage in 'battle', it would at least give the crew an opportunity to set the sails, walk the deck, and keep a sharp eye out for victims that might cross your path. The Meerwald http://www.ajmeerwald.org takes out charter groups - old and young alike - but that's in NJ and not sure where most folks are located. But it's possible to arrange for a charter, and since they don't have a dress code for passengers, I see no reason why you couldn't come dressed in full cosume (though swords and working firearms MIGHT be a problem unless they are peace-tied - that's a detail I wouldn't know about). I know the Meerwald is pretty open to things like this - they have special sails (birding, oyster, lighthouse) all the time - why not a piratical one! But if you're not near NJ, look into other schooners near you, and that might take out charters for special groups. Pirates often preferred schooners because of their shallow draft and easy handling, so it would be CLOSE to the real thing. But their may be other vessels, like the Kalmar Nyckel that may welcome such a crew aboard. http://www.kalnyc.org (Of course, I have no idea if you are already associated with an actual ship or not - if you are, ignore my ramblings...) Hey - at least it would give you a 'feel' for the sea...and let's face it, many a pirate spent his time starving and bored, searching the horizon for prey. So even if you all went for a sail and didn't actually get to do any pirating, at least you could appreciate that average day a pirate spent aboard ship...singing shanties and enjoying yer grog with yer mates... :) das

LOL! Had to chuckle over this, it's as if you read my mind!! Anytime someone starts recommending books to me, I'm thinking, 'Sheesh - if it's longer than Of Mice and Men, I AIN'T reading it!!' I have the attention span of a flea... Thanks for the recommendations - I'll check them out! das

OO-OO-OO-OO!!! *waves hand wildly in the air* I have ANOTHER question!!!!! I have held off on reading 'Captain Johnson's' A General History...yadayadayada...Pyrates because I have heard debate over whether this Captain Johnson was actually Defoe - which, if that is the case, makes me suspicious of what sort of 'poetic license' he may have taken, maybe even to increase interest in his other works. Can someone please help me here - Was Johnson REALLY Defoe - and if so, how do we know the book isn't a mixed work of fact and fiction, and if he wasn't - then who was Captain Johnson??? I would really like to read A General History..., but am very cautious because I'm concerned it may have been tainted by a writer's imagination. das

Well, this is what I'm guessing, too - that most of this would be left behind during a boarding raid - like I said, fire, toss, and grab yer sword. I tried to think of every possible 'accessory' for a pistol and I am not suggesting that all of these items would be carted around on one's person. But what I want to know is if they would have been used at all during that time, and if so, in what form? Would they have been back on the ship, in a trunk? Would they have been only in possession of whoever was in charge of firearms, or would each man have his own 'kit'? Heck, for that matter - how many men would have even HAD a pistol in the first place?? As far as toting the stuff around, I would think that for a quickie raid it would just be a pistol or two...no time to reload. However, in the context of being 'filibusters', pirates often engaged in land action that took them away from their ship for days or weeks while they ransacked villages and followed the 'wealth' as it fled inland. This being the case, and considering that actual attacks may have been hours, even days apart, there would be plenty of time to maintain and reload a pistol. If so - would any of these items be used?? I have seem re-enactors (Rev. War navy) with powder horns for their muskets - so, would such be needed for a pistol if one was away on a land attack? Would they have been in use in either the Elizabethan age, or the GAoP? Pick and whisk is common for Rev. War reenactors, as well, as are the paper cartridges. But these may all be elements that were added later, or more specifically for muskets, and not necessarily used for pistols. I've done a little research, but most of the informantion I find is for either the Revolutionary period, or Civil War. Not too much information before that... das

WEEEEE!! We have an accord!! No - stringent authenticity is not my goal (at this point in time), but I certainly lean more toward authenticity (or at least an impression of authenticity) than I do 'fantasy'. However time, skill, energy and especially budget don't allow me to go totally authentic. That's where I use cotton instead of linen or a replica pistol instead of a real one - from afar most people can't tell the difference. I would be interested in seeing are some examples of authentic costumes, so that I can determine the differences (outside of fabrics used) between the re-enactors costumes, and the faire-goers. Are there specific links here that you could point me to - I have dial up (26K connection) at home (where I do most of my browsing) and it takes forever to search things out on my own sometimes... Thanks das

okayokayokay...you guys STILL aren't getting me...it's my fault - I talk in circles sometimes... 1. Forget EVERYTHING I've said previously. 2. Think...time travel. When I get into costume, I don't get into 'character' - it's more like transporting the person I am now back 300 years in time. I don't want to become 'Splitbelly Sally', but I want to - as myself - experience what it may have been like for ME (the person I am now) to live back then...and that is why I TRY (within the limitations of my budget) to be as authentic as possible - but allowing for my own personal taste (if that personal taste is within the boundaries of what could have been authentic in that era). In other words, if I think a pirate might have worn an earring because they did prior to the Golden Age and after, and IF I want to wear one based on my personal tastes, then I might - BUT (regardless of my personal taste) I'm not going to wear fishnet stockings and a clunky bling-bling skull-and-crossbones pendant around my neck because it would not fall within the boundaries of what could be historically accurate. I am well aware that society, education, etc effected what a person became way back when. However, I am not convinced that these people were fundamentally different from you and I. The impression I get from talking with people about past cultures (not necessarily here) and from watching documentaries is that there seems to be a tendency to put important significance on everything a person did, wore, made...and to 'sterilize' their society based on what is popularly known about it. For instance,to say that 'all' Victorians were reserved and prudish would be wrong, but yet that is the way they are depicted. That becomes a stereotype and does not allow for natural variety within the group. And there is always variety. You will have your rebellious women, your spineless men, your bullies, your jesters, your athletic sorts and your lazy arses, your brilliant eccentrics and your fools. I guess this is basically the part where I have trouble with the 'authenticity' angle. I don't buy that society, education, enviroment etc squeezed everyone into the same mold. There is still personal choice, self-will (or lack thereof) and many other inborn tendencies that have a part in making a person an 'individual' within a stereotyped society. And as such an individual, I strongly believe that, had I lived back in those days, I would be basically the same sort of person I am now. Although, I must admit, I probably would have been making my living on my back, since I wasn't motivated enough in modern society to get a decent job, so lord knows I wouldn't have been good for anything else back then. But I would have a heck of a sense of humor over my miserable existence, of that I'm sure!! :) das

Not sure if this is where I ask...but here goes... okie dokie - I have a replica (ACK!! ) flintlock pistol (would have a real one if they weren't so danged 'spensive). So, in an attempt to make my fantasy toy seem as authentic as possible, I have a few accessories to go along with it, and a few ideas of what I might need to add. However, I'm not sure when the items came into popular use, nor am I certain of the style of these items for the time period in question (either during the Elizabethan times for the PA Ren Faire, or the later Golden Age of piracy for other events). First, I understand that the true flintlock came into origin between these two time periods, correct (early to mid-1600's)?? Before the flintlock were the matchlock and wheel lock...so, which would have been used during Elizabethan times??? And what sort of gadgets would have been necessary for such a weapon? Are there replicas of these available? Second, if the flintlock was in common use during the GAoP, then what sort of gadgets would have been necessary for it?? I'll make a list, and please delete/add/correct what I have here through your posts, and give descriptions of what would be an authentic style for such items. Thanks very much!! extra flints shot shot mold paper cartridge (papers, wooden mandrel for forming - or did this come later and would such be used for musket only, or for pistols, too?) black powder (or good imitation for safety regulations at faires) wadding (yes - no - something like oakum - something else?) oil or grease? (what sort of oil/grease? what sort of flask/bottle/container?) powder horn powder flask (I have both horn and flask, but my flask is small so I use it for something else - would these items be within either time period, or later) patch box & patches (was this just for muskets [to keep the ball from rolling out], or pistols, too, and would it have been used during the time period in question) pick and whisk (again - when did such come into use, were they used to maintain pistols as well muskets, and what style would they have been if they were in use during the period in question.) Okay - that's all I can think of off the top of my head, if there is anything I missed, please lemme know! And yes, I am aware that a pistol was not always the most practical weapon - fire and toss and grab yer sword was probably the way to go in the heat of battle. But I would like to know what an OCD pirate with a fixation on his pistol would have had on hand to use and maintain it. das

NOOOOObody panic!! (sheesh, I must be driving you mad!!) Here's linkage to the type of pants I'm referring to - this picture, supposedly - is from 1718...but I can't confirm that date. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...anger/monks.jpg Hope that helps... das

*ponder the image of hundreds of men in leather thongs and red ski masks....* HEY??! Where??!! WHEN??!! HOW DO I GET TICKETS???!!! Well, I'm totally convinced no one gets what I'm getting at...so...lemmejustsaythis... First, GoF - no worries - never thought you were trying to convert anyone. But I do have to personally disagree with the opinion that - if I had lived X amount of years ago I would have done such and such. I am, as I said somewhere else, a non-conformist right from the womb - and my poor aged parents are STILL pulling their hair out. So, I know, down inside, that I would not follow certain FASHION codes (such as hats), regardless of the society I was raised in (if I have this same head it's really a moot point because I swear I have little tiny hands under my hair that push hats off, cant' keep 'em on my head even if I wanted to)...so I know hats wouldn't even be an issue. And I'm sure that many a pirate opted not to wear one. It's not a matter of 'adapting' or 'accepting' something because I was raised around it. My mother and sister are big hat wearers, they have tried to make me the same way - but it ain't happening. In the coldest, sub-freezing weather, I'm outside without a hat (and making everyone crazy as they insist I'm gonna catch a deadly bug if I don't cover me head). Now, I use that solely as an illustration for we know that not all pirates wore hats, right?? RIGHT?? HOWEVER, when you are speaking about food - well, that is a different thing. It goes beyond the 'hat' issue (hat, as it represents fashion as a whole). It took me three tries before I came to discover that Guinness is a gift from God, and now wouldn't think of having anything else with a burger down at the local. For some interesting reason, we - perhaps out of sheer survival - seem to adapt much easier to new and/or exotic foods. ..more so than we are willing to adapt to styles of clothing. I'm just gonna interrupt my own thoughts with this point: there are two types of people - those that strive to fit in, and those that don't. I'm definitely in the 'don't' group - so fashion (which is what this convo is about) - regardless of what is popular or trendy - is of no interest to me, and not even in this society where conforming is SO essential. Whether it be the SUV, or the belly ring, or the clunky platform shoes - if you wanna look in vogue, ya gotta have these things (well, 4 years ago ya did, not sure what's in fashion now...). I am sure there were pirates who, like people today, were just like that, willing to go with the flow, just as I am certain that there were others who, like myself, bucked every fad and fashion statement to come down the line and did what they dang well pleased. This is my basic point...it really has nothing to do with fantasy - I'm not talking about cookie cutter images of pirates in EITHER catagory - what I am talking about is expressing your own individuality REGARDLESS if you chose the fantasy route, or the authentic route. Following me so far?? So - if, within the boundraries of, say - authenticity - there is room for VARIETY (especially since from what I underatand, many a pirate flew below the radar as he drifted between piracy and legit lifestyles, never to be captured or his possessions documented ...), then I would encourage the variety. For instance, I'm sure a slave aboard a captured ship or in a sacked port, if offered freedom aboard a pirate ship, would gladly go with the clothes of a slave on his back. OR...he might want to pay back his master by pilfering his fancy dress and leave the rags behind. Either way, both could be considered authentic garb for a pirate. I Do understand the documentation issue, and the Batman analogy - and agree that it must be used to a certain extent. For instance, jsut because fine dresses were in fashion and available, it doesn't mean that pirates wore them (except on very special occasions! ) Just because beads and trinkets were being shipped to the New World to bribe Indians, doesn't mean that pirates started making jewelry out of them if they stumbled upon such a cargo. Yeah - if you're not careful, you could end up with something that DOES look like good ol' Cap'n Jack.. (On a side note, a year or two before POTC came out, I met a man who lived in Zimbabwe for many years. He was older, and white, with a full head of greying blond dreadlocks...and HE had trinkets tied into them. When I saw Jack Sparrow I had to laugh, because I knew it had been done before. My point - it's really hard to say when the firs person on earth came up with such an idea...so maybe Cap'n Jack isn't as Hollywood as one might think...) Good lord - I am SO rambling...and yes, this is really all big waste of time - ISN'T IT GREAT??!!!!!!! WEEEE!! das

In the Great Earring Debate, JoshuaRed asked me this question, and I figured the answer would be so OT that I decided to start a new thread. Well, yes and no. First off my costume - if you saw it - is far from what is considered 'fantasy' wear...but it's probably not what you would consider authentic, either. The 'male' version is simply full, shin-length trousers (not slops or linen, but they're a rough cotton and pass okay), a long, full-sleeved, shirt with laces at the collar, (no ruffles), a vest, and usually primative, leather sandals because I have yet to find the right shoes, and I don't do boots. A pistol, some accessories for it (oil flask, powder horn (or 'flask'), extra shot), and a leather money pouch, fixed-blade knife, and a mug - just 'cause EVERYONE has one - and NO EARRINGS. Probably a few other things I can't think of off the top of my head. If I do the 'female' version I have all that stuff, just in a skirt and shirt that looks more like dumpy farmer's wife garb than wench-wear, and I add some jewelry - so it might lean more toward fantasy, not sure. Yes - I would like to experience what my ancestors felt, but I have to do it as myself - which means that there are things I won't do today, and wouldn't have done back then (I'm sure I would have been beheaded or something early on, seeing as how the flow and I do NOT get along... ). So, when I say I want to experience that life, I keep in mind my own personality...and adjust accordingly...thus the no hats, no boots, no loopy earrings - those are things that I don't care for, and would do without regardless of fashions or trends. I don't want to transform myself into something I'm not, but instead, through donning an 'appropriate' costume, transport the person I am back to another time - a la Kirk and Spock, or something like that. Now, although I am white, my great-great-great grandmother was of African descent (wanna hear the story about her and Teddy Roosevelt's pa - or was it his uncle...?? Anyway... ). And seeing as how she was from Charleston, SC - and seeing as how that port once welcomed pirates sailing up from the Caribbean - and seeing as how about a third of pirates were of African decent - maybe I can entertain the idea that some of my ancestors came from Africa via the islands, or at least they may have entertained a pirate or two somewhere along the way, if they were never one themselves. That being the case, it's very easy for me to imagine 'my' piratical persona to be adorned with wooden and clay beads instead of gold chains and gemstone rings, or to wear sandals instead of European buckle shoes. So - where do we ultimately decide on what's authentic?? It MAY be accurate for someone like me, despite my Scottish, Danish, and German ancestory, to wear something a bit different because I can also identify with my African ancestors and take into consideration what they may have worn if they escaped slavery and found freedom aboard a pirate ship. So, I guess what I'm saying is that within the realm of authenticity, there's a lot of leeway based on personal choice and differences in cultures of the day. For instance - has anyone ever depicted what a true buccaneer looked like?? An island hunter - I can imagine him looking like a cross between Robinson Crusoe and a Mountain Man, or something along those lines, and he probably looked much as he did hunting wild cattle as he did when he took to the seas to terrorize the Spanish. So, wouldn't it be safe to say that aboard a pirate ship there may have been many different styles? Some with earrings, some without, some with a bone or tooth necklace, some with gold, some in European gents garb, and some in sailor's slops. Some may have strung coins to wear - where?? In their ear? On a chain? Sewn into their clothes to hide them from their mates?? Who knows. I understand the ratio thing that GoF mentioned in the Earring thread - that if the majority are doing something that only the minority had done, it gives an unbalanced impression as to the popularity of a practice or style. But can't this be also true in the case of those striving for authenticity??? If one's imagination is limited to what is depicted in a few crude illustrations, or a few incomplete documents, might not those who are attempting to be accurate in their costumes also be falling prey to the very same ratio issue?? THIS is where I exercise my personal preferences over what has been documented. I often wear sandals - not documented as authentic, as far as I know, perhaps not even practical...and certainly not 'fantasy' wear. But maybe, somewhere between the Orient and the Caribbean, a sailor wore them aboard ship during the time in question. The same with the earring issue, or anything else that COULD have been worn or used during that period of time based solely on the fact that it was available during the age in queston, even if it was not traditional. If such 'alternatives' are used sparingly, they can only enhance the full effect of the diversity found within a pirate crew, IMHO... Okay - didn't realize how well I can ramble on after midnight... sry... das

Cap'n PP ... I myself have been torn between the faire pirate and the re-enactor...I have pals who are re-enactors and am very envious of the attention to authentic detail they give their costumes. When I'm around them, I just drool... (Well, I sometimes drool on other occasions too, but I blame that on age... ) However, I've discovered that re-enacting takes something that the pirate in me just is NOT going to give...and that's c-o-m-m-i-t-m-e-n-t. So, I settle on the faires, because it's much easier to fit them into my busy, disorganized, running-late-all-the-time lifestyle. First, pardon my wishy-washy back-and-forth stand on the different sides of the debate, but there are good points on both sides, and I just have to comment on this statement of yours, because it really hit home with me. Yeah - WHY do we do it?? If it's for education, such as at re-enactments, then authenticity is very important. If it's just to have a good time - then go all out for the fantasy image. But for me it's something a wee bit different - I do it is because I long to live in the past and grab every opportunity to do so. I do not strip out of my costume as soon as the event is over as most folks do...I am very content to savour the experience of stepping into the past. It's not about entertainment, OR education, but about 'living the life' of my ancestors. Freaky, eh? My husband calls me 'primative', which is actually a compliment. And that's why I got involved with working on the schooner in my avatar, just to know what it's like to sail and maintain such a vessel - and put myself in the bucket boots, or buckle shoes, or bare feet of men who lived a life ont he seas. So, when I go to the Ren Faire - now try to follow me on this one - I don't go as a 're-enactor' pretending to be someone else, but I go as myself, as I would have been had I lived 300 years ago. I base my costume on my tastes and preferences (not that of shadowy historical figures). For instance - I HATE hats. Hate them. If I was a pirate or sailor 300 years ago, there is NO way in the world I would be wearing a hat, fashion or not. So my pirate will never wear one - not even a bandana. Nope - never. Same with the baldric and sword - I will never cart one around because they're cumbersome and awkward...and I doubt I would have bothered with one had I lived in the past. Heck, I won't even carry a pocketbook in RL, so why bother with all that heavy leather strapped around my torso? Nah - if I was a pirate 300 years ago, I'd be more the 'sneak up behind and stab 'em in the back' type, rather than the swashbuckley swordplay sort...I'm too lazy for that. So I definitely prefer to tailor my costume around my own personality, instead of what is traditional or authentic...which brings me back to the Great Earring Debate (SEE??! On Topic AGAIN!!). I won't wear the little - or big - golden hoop. Nope - no way...I don't like hoop earrings, and IF I was a pirate upteem million years ago, I wouldn't have worn a hoop earring. If I was gonna wear something in my ear, it would be something similar to what I wear today - a dangly, handmade thingy of beads and brass coins and bells (been wearing the same earrings, or variations thereof, for about 5 years...I'm not big on change, either... ) . If those items, or similar items - bone, odd bits of tin - anything - were available to me, that's prolly what I would be wearing in my ears, regardless of the fashion of the times (I TOTALLY disregard fashion now, so why would my pirate care what he/she looked like way back when?) Wow - this entire debate has really helped me settle a lot of costume issues. I will be the pirate I would have been had I lived 300 years ago...not a fantasy pirate, and not a replica of someone from the past - but something that falls very comfortably in between... das

hehehe...perhaps I should clarify what I mean by 'attention'. Since I be an ol' married sea hag, I don't go to the faire to pick up randy buccaneers *dang!* . When I say 'attention', I mean...well, people in general interacting with me. At the faire, it's common for the actors and other visitors to interact with one another...and when I dressed in more authentic kit, well, it was like I was invisible. Maye they thought I was a bloomin' cowboy or something, I dunno . But as soon as I changed the trousers out for a skirt, lost the vest, and slipped into a very unauthentic c. 1980 peasant top...BAM! Folks (men, women, kids, village idiots...) started chattin' wif me. But you've actually encouraged me to try to go in a more authentic direction once again. I have a few months yet to figger it out... das

Okayokayokay...I THINK I'm starting to understand your point. It's all about ratios... (I wasn't very good at math, mind you... ) Lemme see if I can gather my thoughts into some sort of logical order. It all makes sense now about a GROUP portraying an accurate representation of a pirate, as opposed to just an individual. Thank you for clearing that up, because I was thinking ONLY on an 'individual' level. Foxe: RE: Earrings. I have always considered the wearing of an earring by a sailor to be nothing unusual, though the wearing of it may be based on a variety of factors - they wore them, but not necessarily for the same reasons. I am not just speaking of 'European' seafarers, but of seafarers from around the world, throughout the ages. From the Orient to the slave galleys on the Mediterranean and onto the Caribbean, certainly there were eras and regions of the world where they were more/less popular. That said, if there is no obvious documentation of Caribbean pirates, or sailors in general, wearing earrings in the late 17th through early18th century, then I guess it's safe to assume that they were not popular at the time. Now, lemme blather on a bit about the group vs. individual factor. A few years back ('01 or '02, I think) I set aside my gypsy garb and went to the Ren Faire for the first time as a pirate. Having had an interest ever since I was a child in sailing ships and those who worked them, I went for accuracy. I decided to go as a woman, dressed as a man. Okay - my clothes were cotton and not linen, but I was working on a budget... Anyway, I had a pretty good feel for what a sailor (or pirate) would have in his possession. I figured that the average pirate didn't carry much more than a working knife, and perhaps a marlin spike, while aboard ship. Then I looked at all those old pirate pictures (c. early 18th cent.), not of the captains, but of the crews, and noticed most dressed in slops (often striped), a shirt, a jacket or coat, a neckerchief. They wore buckle or plain shoes, perhaps bare feet, and maybe a knit cap or hat. In fact, they looked much like the average deckhand on a merchant ship. So, I decided to base my costume on the garb that these men wore, sans the jacket/coat and hat because it was the middle of a blazing hot summer. I only carried a pistol and knife and a pilfered bosun's whistle. Not much else. And did I feel out of place! I knew my costume was probably more accurate than most, but everyone was wearing the feathered hats, bucket boots, and bodices. Well, I added a few 'gadgets' but stuck to my 'female pirate dressed as a dude' style, and toughed it out for two and a half more years. But it only got worse - all the women were dressed like strumpets, and all the men like Captain Hook. And there I was, looking something like Pintel from POTC, 'cept I wuz wearing a shirt to cover the boobage. Anyway, I gave up halfway through last year when I overheard a pirate dude say something about me...it was to the effect of 'I never saw a guy with a set like that' (okay - so I didn't bind them down, but I thought the vest would hide the puppies... ). So I said 'screw the authenticity', started wearing a 'peasant' blouse and skirt (STILL not wearing a bloody bodice!!), with flashy red sash and (real) coins hanging around my waist as 'jinglers', and mugs, and pistols, and all the other crap I can layer on - and wow!! I actually had FUN! Got lots of attention, had lots of laughs. My point (FINALLY!) If the group you are in dresses like the fantasy pirate or piratess captain, it's sometimes better to say *@%*-it and go with the flow, instead of feeling like a scallywag outta water. In my heart - as an individual - I WANT to be authentic, however, in the GROUP, authenticity often looks out of place and people just don't get it. (I do try to blend the two styles, and have had many compliments on the unique items I carry, including several 'accessories' for my pistol since I don't bother with a sword. ) Perhaps there needs to be more education about the general crew of a pirate ship - what would be worn, and what would not. Most costumes are based on the illustrations of the more famous captains, and we can't even be sure if they are depicted in their actual clothing, or in the garb of an artist's imagination. das

I'm ready to be serious and give this the proper attention it deserves.... Thanks for posting this little gem - I love firsthand accounts because they help paint a picture no artist can even attempt to create. Along these lines but a bit off-topic, I have Life Before The Mast (edited by Jon E. Lewis), which gives eye-witness accounts of life during the age of the fighting sail, primiarily from the late 18th to early 19th centuries. Another firsthand account that I discovered and absolutely love is found in The Mammoth Book of Men O'War (edited by Mike Ashley). It's from the memoirs of Commander John Finlayson and the bit that's published here is his account of the Battle of Copenhagen in 1801. There is a passage that I particularly enjoy: We began (we Mids.) to wonder how our wardrobes would stand affliction. On Friday evening after the last dog-watch, plans were laid and we began to take stock, determined that two out of each mess should commence the operation of washing a shirt for each in the pump-well, but a difficulty arose about water; for being so long out of it after a certain time, it was being served so much to each Mess. But what with plundering, and purchasing with grog from one Mess or the other, and a little with peas water, we could manage to rub out pretty decently six or eight shirts, sometimes a dickey or two. White stockings, if not too black or dirty, we could chalk or pipe-clay. Our mess utensils generally comprised a black bottle for a candlestick, two or three broken pieces of plates, or biscuits as substitutes, one rusty knife, one fork with three prongs, two of which were broken, amongst twelve or fourteen Mids. One of the worst things we were generally put to for was a cloth to boil a plum pudding in. However, finding we could not find a decent cloth, we made shift with a night-cap, taking care it was clean before filled. This was our last resource on the Christmas Day of 1800, when all hands, or nearly so, dined on that day together in the gun-room. About six were lucky in being asked to dine in the Wardroom and with the Captain. It was blowing very hard, and although placed so low as the gun-room is of a three-decker, we found great difficulty in keeping what crockery we could muster on the table. Now, why the hell did I type all this OT info out?? Well, if this was the NAVY c. 1800, imagine what it was like for pirates a hundred years earlier?? I have always imagined men in the navy dining on at least a square wooden tray, utensils for everyone, but according to this report, it wasn't like that at all. And what of the rummaging around for clothing?? I think when we realize exactly how lean times could be even on a naval vessel, then it REALLY helps us appreciate the reports of deprivation aboard pirate ships. Yeah, I know - didn't really add anything to the Great Earring Debate - so flog me... das