dasNdanger

There once was a lass from Cape May, Who learned that black dyes fade away. So she asked through the bull, ‘Whether silken or wool, Do black flags still turn into grey?’ das

Sparrow comes in?? hey - fatten him up a bit, K - he's been looking pretty lean since getting back from overseas - must be all that Brit food he was livin' off of...squishy peas and mad cow beef... ...and sticky toffee pudding... das

Okay, now that I think about it, a painted flag would be impractical - it would be like a piece of cardboard up there! I have one shaky source that suggests the emblems were sewn on, not painted...not sure if that's correct or not. So, we're back to the black dye issue. If black dyes faded easily, then how long was a black flag black! 'Under the Ratty Grey Flag', just not as fearsome, eh?

K - thanks. I got that picture from a website (my photobucket account was acting up, so the link is from the site), but I've seen it elsewhere. I was wondering in what style those illustrations were, since I've seen several. So, we can safely assume that the facial whiskers and other details are not in keeping with the GAoP, but with a 19th century interpretation of what pirates once looked like. Funny thing is, their appearance reminds me of the face cards in a deck...very similar style of artwork. das

see what happens when you're too lazy to do a search... An entire thread, you say?? Perhaps a lovely mod would merge this thread into that one, just to prevent the board clutter I seem to be creating here... Thanks for the info!! I'm thinking it was painted because painted canvas was quite an art back then, and often 'carpets' were created from painted canvas for the captain's quarters, etc. Since may also had white and red (and perhaps other colors), it just seems logical that paint, and not dyes, were used... das

Sorry - I didn't want to dig up the thread(s) where black dye was discussed, and I'm kinda bored tonight - so I figgered I'd just start a new thread. Remember how we discussed black...how it's not a practical color because the dye was expensive, and it easily faded...well...silly question here, but since many Jolly Rogers were black, how did they achieve the color?? Were they made from tarred canvas? Painted? Dyed?? I'm thinking they were painted, but not sure... das

There's another way to get that nice pine tar smell...go to the 'beauty supply shop' and look for Bronner Bros. Pine Tar super gro conditioner (it may be in the ethnic hair care section). Gah - I LOVE the smell of this stuff!! I can get plenty of pine tar from the schooner, but I'm not gonna put that in my hair...but this you can. Rug it in, and go around smelling like smoked BACON the rest of the day!! dang...now I'm hungry... das

Well, I'm exhausted!! Just got back fromt he library and really didn't find out anything new, except I did find reference to 'Dead Man's Chest Island' in one 1962 book about the islands of the world, and only mentioned that some islands had names that reflected their popularity with 17th century pirates. Also, England (Britain) has had control of Tortola since 1666, possibly suggesting that any surrounding islands (including Norman Island ("Treasure Island"), Peter Island, and Dead Chest Island) may have been named around that time. The more I research, the more I think The Blackbeard connection to 'yo ho ho and a bottle of rum' is in complete error. Many sites directly attribut the line '15 men on a dead man's chest' to the marooning of Blackbeard's men, not even acknowledging that it was Stevenson who penned those words 150 years later! Other references mention that Norman Island was Stevenson's Treasure Island, but then they make no reference to Blackbeard. So it seems to me that there is a mass of internet confusion that is fast becoming 'fact', and people are confusing Stevenson's (and Allison's) literary work with the legend of Blackbeard marooning his crew. And NOW they are adding the Jack Sparrow's marooning in POTC to the myth, too...saying that it was inspired by Blackbeard's actions on Dead Chest Island!! GAAAAHHH!!!! life was so much simpler before the net ushered in the information age.... das

Okie dokie - does anyone know when this illustration was made of Roberts' crew relaxing on the banks of the Calabar River?? http://www.piratehaven.org/~beej/pirates/i...ges/bartdnr.jpg I'm curious because it shows most of the men with facial hair, and sashes about the waist, and long trousers. Any ideas?? das

What I find to be VERY irritating is that most sites are saying 'yo ho ho and a bottle of rum' was inspired by Blackbeard's legendary dirty deed, when it really originates in the pages of Treasure Island, over a 150 years later. I thought it only applies to the characters/events in the book, not in anything else. And it was really Allison who wrote entire poem, and that's about a derelict ship, not an island. Now bear with me...I've only been researching this for a couple of weeks, so I don't know all that much about Stevenson's inspiration for Treasure Island, so I have a question: Did Stevenson EVER say that he based ANY of his story or the 'yo ho ho' poem on Blackbeard's legend?? Once I get an answer to that, I'll finish me thoughts... das

Awwww...yer just sayin' that 'cause Wales WHUPPED England's fann...oh, wait...that word has a TOTALLY different meaning across the pond... Well, still searching for a general date when 'Dead Chest Island' go its name by looking over old maps (found a TERRIFIC site FULL of great links!!)... here's a map from 1823 that shows 'The Dead Chest' - I am still looking for an older map (hopefully before 1700) showing this island with THAT name...but so far, no luck. There are tons of accessable maps through this site, so if anyone is feeling esp. adventurous... MAP: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...r/deadchest.jpg SITE FOR EARLY MAPS: http://www.rism.org/lcr/at_the_LCR/earlymaps.htm http://www.maphistory.info/imagesoutham.html INFO on DRAKE (some EARLY maps): http://international.loc.gov/intldl/drakeh...bSubjects1.html *goes back to do more research...* EDIT: Found another map, this one from 1733 that shows 'Dead Chest': http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasN...adchest1733.jpg das

I think it was also the fashion of the day to go clean-shaven. Back in Drake's time, beards/goatees are shown on many men, but a hundred years or so later, most men (sailors or not) are shown clean shaven. As far as Indians go, they can not, as a rule, grow a heavy beard. Johnny Depp, even at about only 1/4 Cherokee, is a good example of that...he can't grow a thick, full beard to save his neck! Most Native Americans found facial hair of all kinds 'offensive', and if you examine photographs of Plains Indians from the 1800s, you will notice that - not only did they pluck out (with clamshell 'tweezers') their mustaches and beards, they also plucked out their eyebrows!! Among the western tribes facial hair was really offensive, and one threat made to young Apache boys to dissuade them from smoking (or was it drinking??) too young was that if they did, they would grow facial hair! Only a few tribes allowed mustaches or eyebrows to grow out. I'm not as familiar with eastern tribes as far as facial hair goes, but it makes sense that they too found heavy facial whiskers offensive, especially considering so many easter tribes even removed the hair from their heads. It would make sense that pirates would try to 'blend in' with society to avoid detection, so to keep up with the same style of dress AND grooming would be logical. das

No worries, I be bustin' yer chops, mate!! Okayokayokay...lemme think a sec.... *thinks...smokes comes out ears...head hurts...* Okay - the 'song' doesn't say anything about Blackbeard, right?? The song was written as a poem first (by Allison, then later appeared in the musical - both of which are BASED ON Treasure Island - NOT on Blackbeard's legend. SOOO....it is safe to say that the poem/song has nothing to do with Blackbeard. Following me so far...?? GAH!! And WHY can't I get 6 Nations Rugby HERE???!!! *sigh* *watches Brumbies and Crusaders repeat match* Guess the southern hemi games are all I'll get this year - again... Sorry - went OT there for a sec... Anyway, I think the Blackbeard legend isn't tied up with the song/poem, but with the ISLAND. So, if the Island got named during or shortly after Blackbeard's time, based on 'legend' of marooning...WHAT IF there were no specifics of the supposed marooning? What if it was once suggested that, sometime in the early 1700's, Blackbeard marooned SOME men on that island, and the island was thus referred to as Dead Man's or Dead Chest Island? Then, later - AFTER Treasure Island and Allison's extended poem based on the book, people started to suggest that it was about Blackbeard, and they just filled in the details of the old legend? Either way, it's all just guess work on their part, and on ours. The island could have been named 'Dead Chest' before any Blackbeard legend appeared - but it seems from everything I've looked at so far, that the name is directly associated with Blackbeard, indicating there was some connection between that Island and Teach. Gah - I think I'm talking in circles and confusing myself!! I like it much better when you explain things and I just keep my mouth shut... das

Your logic is just fine and dandy, except you forgot one very important thing, mate... :) I SWEAR I never suggested that Stevenson based his little 'poem' on anything to do with Blackbeard. (That be some of the 'historians' doin's, and LORD knows, I'm nuffink of the kind...) What I did suggest is that the Blackbeard 'legend' lead to the naming of the island, and Stevenson took the name of the island and incorporated it into the 'poem' he included in Treasure Island. I'm right with ya on thinking that the details of the dirty deeds in Blackbeard's legend came much later (before or after Treause Island I'm not sure) , and had little, if any, bearing on Stevenson's tale. I also doubt there was ever a real shanty or fo'c'sle song with these words before Stevenson penned them. Had there been such a shanty or song prior to Treasure Island, I'm sure that - by the mid to late 1800's - it would have been well-documented by then. But since there is no other reference to such song, it's fairly obvious that those opening words to it were Stevenson's invention. Besides, he ONLY wrote a few lines of the poem anyway. It was ALLISON (and another writer whose name eludes me at the moment) who actually wrote the poem/song that I posted in full above, NOT Stevenson or anyone else. That poem/song was written AFTER Treasure Island was published, and is what was featured in the (unnamed) musical of 1901. Bottom line, I agree wif ya (and pirates WERE sailors first!), I just wanted to clarify that I'm not in the 'Stevenson was inspired by Blackbeard' camp - not without firm proof, that is. das

Foxe, I think...from what I glean from all I've read here and elsewhere, that the Dead Man's Chest 'timeline' is something like this: 1500's - unnamed island haven for pirates c.1713-1718 Blackbeard 'supposedly' marooned several men on this island. Whether fact or fiction no one knows, BUT this rumored event led to the formerly unnamed island to be called 'Dead Man's Island' or 'Dead Chest Island'. Sometime before 1883, Stevenson 'discovered' Dead Chest Island while looking over maps, and was inspired to write Treasure Island, in which he penned: "Fifteen men on a dead man's chest , Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. " After 1883 and before 1901, Young E. Allison wrote a poem based on that one line from Treasure Island, and LOOSLY based on the book itself. 1901 - A song, based on Allison's poem, was featured in a musical based on Treasure Island. The latter information is pretty accurate, it's the use of 'Dead Chest' Island as a pirate haven and punishment arena that is debateable. das

Ah, nice thread!! Although much of the following information has been covered in some form, I'll still post the information I have on this subject (combined from several posts I made on another forum): First, the words to the entire poem/song: Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Rum Fifteen men on a dead man's chest Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum Drink and the devil had done for the rest Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. The mate was fixed by the bosun's pike The bosun brained with a marlinspike And cookey's throat was marked belike It had been gripped by fingers ten; And there they lay, all good dead men Like break o'day in a boozing ken Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. Fifteen men of the whole ship's list Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! Dead and be damned and the rest gone whist! Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! The skipper lay with his nob in gore Where the scullion's axe his cheek had shore And the scullion he was stabbed times four And there they lay, and the soggy skies Dripped down in up-staring eyes In murk sunset and foul sunrise Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. Fifteen men of 'em stiff and stark Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! Ten of the crew had the murder mark! Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead Or a yawing hole in a battered head And the scuppers' glut with a rotting red And there they lay, aye, damn my eyes Looking up at paradise All souls bound just contrawise Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. Fifteen men of 'em good and true' Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! Ev'ry man jack could ha' sailed with Old Pew, Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! There was chest on chest of Spanish gold With a ton of plate in the middle hold And the cabins riot of stuff untold, And they lay there that took the plum With sightless glare and their lips struck dumb While we shared all by the rule of thumb, Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! More was seen through a sternlight screen Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum Chartings undoubt where a woman had been Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. 'Twas a flimsy shift on a bunker cot With a dirk slit sheer through the bosom spot And the lace stiff dry in a purplish blot Oh was she wench or some shudderin' maid That dared the knife and took the blade By God! she had stuff for a plucky jade Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. Fifteen men on a dead man's chest Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum Drink and the devil had done for the rest Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. We wrapped 'em all in a mains'l tight With twice ten turns of a hawser's bight And we heaved 'em over and out of sight, With a Yo-Heave-Ho! and a fare-you-well And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell, Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum! ~finis~ HISTORY There seems to be many different versions of this song, but the above lyrics are from "Derelict" by Young E. Allison. Both this poem/song and a 1901 musical in which it was featured were inspired by Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island. I found the rest of my information at this site: Yo Ho Ho Here are some excerpts: The original title of this poem was Derelict and written by a Kentucky poet in 1891. Young E. Allison (1853-1932), of Louisville published his long and gory impression of a rhyme from a popular novel of the day in the Louisville Courier-Journal. He promoted Derelict as "a reminiscence of Treasure Island" the adventure novel penned by Robert Louis Stevenson. As the authors original title points out, the verse is about a ship found adrift at sea. The crew have all done each other in and left behind a ship laden with plunder. The discoverers of this shipwreck of flotsam and jetsam have tossed the dead overboard with a Yo-Heave-Ho! and a fare-you-well then taken the loot for themselves... Fifteen Men on the Dead Man's Chest was a poem ...describing the fate of the crew on a ship wrecked on the infamous Dead Man's Chest, a reef close to the island of Tortola in the eastern Caribbean...Allison used the lines from Stevenson's Treasure Island story to retell the folk legend... During the 1500's Dead Man's Chest was an island rendezvous in the Caribbean of buccaneers and smugglers and it's where Stevenson set the scene for Treasure Island. It was while drawing a map with a young boy named Lloyd that Stevenson came up with the idea of writing Treasure Island and whether this was a traditional sea shanty or a fictional creation by Robert Louis Stevenson uncertain. The classic story revolves around the relationships of respectful gentlemen and carefree buccaneers. In it Stevenson cleverly refuses to define these opposing moral forces. It was the Stevenson's pirate ditty that appears in Chapter 1 on page ten of his novel that Allison expanded on: "Fifteen men on the dead man's chest-- Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum! Drink and the devil had done for the rest-- Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!" Stevenson intended the rhyme as a forewarning of the events in his tale. In the novel the sailors sing about a dead man's chest before the adventure has even begun, and almost all of them by the end are quite dead. Good and the bad are entwined together and at the heart of it all is the relationship between the dastardly pirate Long John Silver and the novel's honorable young hero, Jim Hawkins..Stevenson conjures up doubts of fulfillment for many of his characters. The treasure map leads to an empty hole, which becomes figurative of how one can lose their soul in the pursuit of some imagined treasures. Gluttony and senselessness lead only to fatality, failures, and frustration.... Poet Allison creates plenty of violent and gruesome images within his musings of Treasure Island... Young Ewing Allison added his gruesome lyrics in 1891, and a Broadway musical version of Treasure Island opened in 1901 with an extended version of the song credited to Allison and Waller. In 1967 writers for Walt Disney Xavier Atencio & George Bruns merged the song and story into the ever-popular sea ditty Yo Ho (A Pirate's Life for Me). For anyone who's ever traversed the Pirates of the Caribbean ride has heard the tune that retells Stevenson's saga, what thrilling memories it conjures up to hear "Dead Men Tell No Tales!" as an Ahoy there! homage to the Derelict and Treasure Island. Here's to three generations and more to come of legends about pirates that went "Arrr" and "Yo Ho Ho!" ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: Dead Man's Chest is located in the Virgin Islands, a small island off of Peter Island, near Tortola. It's just outside of Deadman's Bay, and is today called Dead Chest Island, an uninhabited National Park. Dead Chest Island reputedly got its name when the notorious Blackbeard, after a mutiny, put 15 men ashore on this island with only a bottle of rum--hence the song: "15 men on a dead man's chest, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum." Another site mentions this: Pirate fans will find the tiny islet Dead Chest huge in skull-and-crossbone lore. A Pirates of the Caribbean major scene is based on what happened on Dead Chest. That's where Blackbeard supposedly marooned 15 rebel pirates who had to make do with only a most inadequate survival kit that comprised only a cutlass and a keg of rotgut rum. Their grisly deaths gave rise to the world's best-known sea shanty that begins: " Fifteen men on a dead man's chest Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. Drink and the Devil have done the rest..." Here's a site with a map, so ye can get yer bearings: http://www.orcasailing.com/peter_island.html das

Well, it is all basially guesswork, isn't it. However, on checking other net links AND nautical publications I have, they all basically say the same thing about 'Davy Jones' of Locker fame that this particular book does. And none state any of it as 'fact'...these are just possible origins, but no one really knows for sure. And as far as that pesky ol' earring debate goes...well since in many piratical pictures the men have their hair down and earlobes covered, I guess we'll never really know for sure if they were pierced or not. (Just stirrin' da kettle to keep it from stickin'...) :) das

I thought they just flashed their boobage?? "Yo-ho!! O, FELLAS!!" Heya, Onesies, nice to have you venturing into these waters instead of asking me for answers when I DON'T KNOW A BLOOMIN' THING!!! sounds like you've been steered in the right direction already, but I wanted to add that signalling wasn't a perfected art, either. Signals were often misread or mistrusted...and many a ship was hit by friendly fire because of it. As late as 1799 their was restitution made to widows of men who died 'in action with pirates, or in engaging British ships through mistake'. Such a mistake would be due to a breakdown in communications, and since this was the case in 1799, image what it may have been like 100 years earlier if there wasn't a good system in place? Can you post any additional information you find, will be interesting to learn more about this... das

I wanna see the rest of yer tidbits!!! I've always taken it for granted that the average seaman and the average pirate dressed about the same (while working - going to town may have been different)...as I've said before, they were sailors first, pirates second. However, I think some 'confusion' comes in when you go outside the confines of 'English' or European pirates, and start including pirates from around the world...so I have a question.... When and how did pirate attire change, especially in artists' illustrations?? I have a theory based on what I have read (here and elsewhere) about the evolution of pictures/illustrations over the years spanning c. 1700 to present day. Tell me what ya think - if it's possible, or not. Up to and through the GAoP, there was a very strong English influence among pirates - both in their nationality and in their culture. True, there were pirates during this age of a variety of backgrounds, but the English and, by extension, other Europeans, lead the way. It would make sense, then, that the majority of pirates would dress like English/European sailors, with an exception made, perhaps, for black/Indian/Caribbean slaves/seamen. Now, when the GAoP collapsed, it didn't spell and end to all piracy - just for the more 'familiar' aspect of it. Piracy still flourished around the world, even in the Caribbean, but it now had a lower profile - the 'glamour' had been taken out of it, kinda like The Miss America Pagent. It still took place, just nobody noticed it as much. So fast forward a few years, perhaps to the start of the 19th century. By now surely there had been run-ins with pirates of all nationalities and backgrounds - pirates who dressed differently from their European counterparts from the past - perhaps in more 'colorful' attire, or less formal. Now, from what I see posted here, there's about a dozen or two illustrations of pirates from the GAoP, and not much else (other than written documentation that doesn't always give great detail). Could it be that artists looked to more contemporary pirates, perhaps ones from Asia or Africa, and incorporated their style of dress into illustrations of earlier pirates from the GAoP, making the excuse that 'all pirates are the same, anyway'? Isn't that what artists did with Indians from the Eastern US, portraying them in the style of dress of Western tribes because their cultures had been wiped out before accurate documentation could be made of their clothing and appearance? In other words, did artists begin blending two (or more) different piratical cultures into one standard fashion...and if so, is there any pictorial documentation of the evolution, or did it all - bucket boots, earrings, sashes, black trousers - just appear one day out of nowhere? I know - should have made a new thread, but I had this wild train of thought going.... das

Here's some information I have on Davy Jones, of the 'Locker' fame... The origin of this expression remains obscure. Some etymologists believe that it is a corruption of "Duffy Jonah", an expression used by West Indian sailors in reference to the devil. Others believe that 'Davy' derives from St. David, the patron saint of Wales who was often invoked by Welsh sailors. Another school of thought believes that "jones" is a corruption of "Jonah", the name of the Old Testament prophet who was swallowed by a whale and spewed back up on land after three days. The phrase came into popular usage more than two centuries ago and, in nautical parlance, referes to a spirit of the deep, often but not always malevolent. British naval surgeon and novelist Tobias Smollett described Davy Jones in his 1751 novel The Adventures of Peregrine Pickel: "I'll be damned if it was not Davy Jones himself. I know him by his saucer eyes, his three rows of teeth, and tail, and the blue smoke that came out his nostrils. The same Davy Jones, according to the mythology of sailors, is the fiend that presides over all other eveil spirits of the deep, and is often seen in various shapes, perching among the rigging on the eve of hurricanes, shipwrecks, and other disasters to which seafaring life is exposed, warning the devoted wretch of death and woe." According to nautical tradition, 'Davy Jones' Locker' (the locker being an allusion to the sailor's trunk or sea chest) is the final resting place of sunken ships, articles swept overboard, and, of course, those buried or lost at sea. ~ from When A Loose Cannon Flogs A Dead Horse There's The Devil To Pay, by Olivia A. Isil Note - there is NO mention of an earring in any of this, including the description of Jones himself. And on a side note, a 'Jonah', of course, is someone that brings bad luck to a ship, so that 'theory' fits, though I personally have no idea which of all these ideas is even close to the 'truth'. das

And as long as yer learnin' yer alive, once ya stop, yer dead. Not that that made any sense... BTW - I learned a long time ago that it's ARRR - not ARRRRGH....ARRRRGH (var. Aaauugh) is the sound ya make JUST before ya stop learnin'...*see above, or Black Beast of Aaauugh Now, as far as the 'Arrrr' Pirates go, I think I can speak fer some of 'em since I'm somewhere in between on this matter. I LOVE the authenticity angle, and I LOVE learning...HOWEVER...if I REALLY wanna have fun at an event, I don't want to be bogged down with worry about the accuracy of my costume. For me, it comes down to my OCD - if I can't be 100% accurate, I'll fret and fuss and drive myself nuts - it's all or nuttin' fer me....so sometimes (for the sake of my own sanity) I say, '#$@!% it' and dress the way I bloody well please! ARRRRR!! So there! das

Hats: From my copy of this picture, it appears that all the men are wearing cocked hats, except for one..the third from the right, counting the officer. His hat is...well...flat, perhaps a 'cap' of some sort. The two on either side of him are wearing their hats backwards, and the one to his left (our right) seems to have an 'emblem' of some kind on the front of his hat...it could even be a buckle - it seems to have that sort of shape. And yes, it's interesting that the officer's hat (captain??) is more ornate, especially considering that all pirates were supposedly 'equal'. Shirts: It's really hard to tell what's a shirt and what's not...but clearly, in my picture, the 'officer/captain' is wearing a ruffled shirt, judging by the sleeves. A bit of a dandy he is, eh?? I can't tell if it's a ruffle down the front of his shirt, or his neckerchief. Hair: The only one who seems to have a queue is the officer/captain, the rest seem to wear their hair loose. None have facial hair. Trousers/breeches: Everyone is wearing trousers (as already noted), but the officer/captain seems to be wearing...dang, it looks like nothing, but I guess it may be breeches, though I can't make out a distinct 'hem' around the knee area...Could he be trouserless?? Is tht what his crewmate is pointing at?? And what is that long garment he has on under his coat? A waistcost of some kind?? Looks like it has an ornate or ruffled trim. I think all the 'stripes' in this picture are just crosshatching, and not ment to indicate stripes. Another thing I notice is that some of the pirates look rather 'portly', not drawn and gaunt and underfed. Not sure if that's artistic license, or a literal representation of what these men looked like. das

Here's a link for 'thread buttons'...perhaps this is what they mean... http://www.woodedhamlet.com/buttons_clasps...ad_buttons.html I have a good copy of this picture...will look it over and see what I can come up with... das

So sorry - but I was feeling a bit sleepy, and now I'm laughin' me fool head off!! Nothin' like gettin' a full broadside right in the kisser!! Sigh....No Zin (RED!) for me tonight ...but instead I'm enjoying a nice Cab and DARK, DARK ghirardelli double chocolate ...and needless to say, I'm feelin' rather mellow and just a WEE bit dizzy... and I'm not even blonde! das

What a fantastic list!! Thanks so much for taking the time to post it... I find it interesting that there are a couple listed as 'Probably American Indian'. It reminds me of the shanty 'Alabama John Cherokee', which is significant in understanding the relationship between Native Americans, Africans and slavery. Here's one comment on it (found here: The Itinerant Band ): "A sailing song from the 17th century Caribbean area where ships were often manned by what were referred to as "checkerboard crews", a combination of white, African and Indian sailors, both free and indentured. The chantey was written about a West Indies slave whose talent for escaping became legendary. It is a good example of a short-haul or loading song, the songs used when loading and unloading cargo. The influence of fieldworker and slave history can been heard in both the music and the lyrics." Thanks again!! Also, my sister - an avid diver - knows well a decendent (supposedly) of Gideon Ebanks down in Cayman. Well, I guess EVERYONE knows him - Darvin Ebanks, Cayman's official mascot... http://www.petermilburndivecayman.com/photos.htm das