dasNdanger

Here's an interesting discussion about this topic - a little earlier time period, but it might shed some light on things... http://www.wolfeargent.com/cgi-bin/ultimat...ic&f=3&t=000050 das

Could be...I just can't seem to distinguish a stem and foot. It looks rounded on the bottom...but that might just be me peepers playing tricks on me. *looks again* Hmmm...perhaps you're right, though I think they are wearing two different things. I can't see buttons on the one in the foreground, which leads me to believe it might be a sweater. But I'm not all that familiar with waistcoat variations (besides the later, c. 1800 type). It just looks bulky (in a fluffy kinda way) to me...the way the hem looks, and the sleeves...something like the one here: http://www.saint-james.com/chandail.asp (the one shown could be an exhibit piece, though I can't tell for sure...) das

Congratulations, Rumba!!! Drinks all around!! That frock coat is lovely...it must have been a hoot to watch the entire presentation - too bad there isn't video!! Please let us know when the pics are up!! das

Doh! Sorry...must be this wicked head cold cloudin' me grey cells...either that, or watching The Kumars at #42 while trying to make sensible replies... What sort of cup is the one gentleman (the 'officer', a.k.a. Sashman) holding? Looks like a pewter drinking horn... And he appears to be wearing a sweater under his...waistcoat/doublet (??). It's long, you can see the hem of it underneath. Looking forward to more! das

No need to apologize...I just find it interesting that in many (not all) films dealing with this era, they show men whipping off their hats the moment they go indoors. So the pictures you posted just demonstrate how Hollywood alters 'history', including the customs of the day. Could the goblets be silver? Pewter or glass...but glass just seems so dangerous in the hands of a bunch of drunken sailors. Yeah, when I posted I didn't give consideration to what was in that bowl...tankards for beer and cider, goblets for the blood of the vine - doh! - *hits head* - I knew that, I SWEAR! No!!! Wait! The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon! The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true! oh. sorry. broke out in a bit o' Danny Kaye jocularity there for a sec... Oooooo!! I like this second picture SO much better. It's so hard to distiguish details in those black and white illustrations... I see a KITTY!!! at least, I THINK it's a kitty... Are they mules he's wearing? Slippers? And the predominant color here seems to be brown. And do I see a...EEP!...a sash???? Geez, next thing ya know, you'll be showing us pictures of sailors wearing EARRINGS!! das

Oh, RATS! I thought you meant that you had done the urine experiment! Phooey. I have a friend who makes her own Castile soap - I didn't realize until tonight that that's what it is, though. She just calls it olive oil soap... Comparing her Castile soap to the lye soap I used as a kid - the difference is obvious. The olive oil soap is just...silkier, for lack of a better word, whereas the lye soap was 'harder' and it's lather not as rich. das

I'm trying to decipher the diff between 'Castile' and 'lye' soaps...since soap is made with lye. Basically looks like soap made from animal fat (with no 'luxury' oils) is called 'lye' soap, and usually a harsher soap best used for laundry (that's what we used it for - laundry and handwashing). Castile soap, originally made with 100% olive oil (and later other vegetable oils) , was mild and soft, and thus preferred for personal use. So I'm suspecting that if any sailor or pirate had a bar of Castile in his possession, he wouldn't use it to scrub out stains in his tighty whities... das

Instead of commenting on the style of dress this time, I'm more intrigued by the etiquette displayed. I find it interesting that the first picture shows the men in an interior room, relaxing, but still wearing hats and coats. In most movies dealing with this era, hats come off immediately when a man entered the room, and sometimes coats too if they were going to stay a while. So, could Hollywood be tapping into later customs that were really not so common in the early 18th century?? I don't think this is a case of 'artistic license' because if it was customary not to wear hats indoors, then they wouldn't have been depicted doing so. Also, the drinking vessels. I would have thought clunky pewter mugs, but it seems they are all drinking from a type of goblet (pewter?). das

Wot does me user name mean? It means I wasn't clever enough to come up with a meaningfully deep or witty pirate name.... Okie dokie - here goes the tale...(or 'tail', if you prefer...) My first name is Deirdre - but no one can pronounce 'Deirdre', now, can they? Nope. Instead they call me DEEdra (GAG!), or Desiree, or Debra, or...like on my wedding day - DERRIERE (Mr. Das still hasn't forgiven the MC for THAT one...)...soooooo... Trying to be helpful, I just tell people to call me 'Dee'. But alas, even that proves too difficult for some, who inevitably respond with, "What? BEA??" To which I reply, "No. 'Dee'...as in Danger". (Think: 'A' as in 'Alpha', 'B' as in 'Bravo', etc...) So I just squished it all together into 'dasNdanger'... But instead of 'Dee', most folks on-line just call me 'das'...and if yer not sure how to pronounce THAT, I've been told it rythmes with 'ass'...so feel free... (and NO, I don't mean free feelies...) das

Sticky toffee pudding!! ...but then again, yer asking the wrong person... So, can we safely assume that this reference to 'peas' water is actually piss water? And thanks, Royaliste, for confirming what I had 'heard' before but wasn't 100% sure of being true. And to think - I freak out if Mr. Das doesn't have good aim and misses the bowl... Okayokayokay....so IF it was traditional to use urine as a laundry...booster...wouldn't the shirts STINK??! I mean...it's...peeeeeee, afterall. I guess all I'm thinking is that the whole ship went around smelling like the public toilets at a bus station. Or do you suppose that the urine was used sparingly, and then the clothing washed WELL in salt or fresh water? I would love for one of you brave gents to do a 'wee' experiment using this technique of laundering, since you have the proper fabrics and all. I'm just wondering if rinsing well in sea or fresh water would remove any offensive odors...and whether any hidden odors emerge once one starts to sweat. On a side note - does anyone know what sort of soap was in use at the beginning of the 18th century? Just a basic lye soap, I guess - but what was the most common source....gah, NOT wording this right. Okay - would olive oil or tallow been most commonly used during that time? Would it have been 'manufactured', or just homemade and either you had it, or you didn't? Would soap have been common aboard ship (I notice that those Mids. a hundred years later didn't mention soap when doing their laundry)? Or did it all just 'depend'? I grew up using lye soap made from rendered pig fat and know what it's like, so I'm curious as to how close that soap was to what was in use around 1700. The soap was made - along with other things - by an elderly neighbor-lady in her dark, dank basement...full of severed pig heads and entrails...andlemmejustsaythisaboutthat... 'PARENTS SHOULD NEVER LET THEIR KIDS SEE WHERE 'SCRAPPLE' COMES FROM IF THEY EVER WANT 'EM TO EAT IT AGAIN!!!!' das

*drags stinky self outta sick bed...* The 'peas water' reference came from 'A Midshipman in Copenhagen', found in the The Mammoth Book of Men O'War. It's a short, real life account based on the memoirs of a young midshipman (John Finlayson), c. 1800. The section in question reads: Our cruise was expected to be a very long one, and not a very pleasant one during the winter. We began (we Mids.) to wonder how our wardrobes would stand affliction. On Friday evening after the last dog-watch, plans were laid and we began to take stock, determined that two out of each mess should commence the operation of washing a shirt for each in the pump-well, but a difficulty arose about water, for being so long out of it after a certain time, it was being served so much to each Mess. But what with plundering, and purchasing with grog from one Mess or the other, and a little with peas water, we could manage to rub out pretty decently six or eight shirts, sometimes a dickey or two. White stockings, if not too black or dirty, we could chalk or pipe-clay. *grabs bottle of rum and crawls back into sick bed...* das

I'm assuming you saw this link in my 'shoes and slippy decks' thread, but here it is again: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/calderon/clo...tm#costumebooks Read down, and you will see a couple of references to sailors wearing rope shoes in the 16th century. What I'm wondering is if you checked any of the links on that page?? Not sure if they give any further information... On one of the links I found this picture, considered a 'cartoon', dating from 1600-1650 of a European man, wearing 'sandals' (CAUTION: NUDITY): http://images.colum.edu/costv1/JFIF03/00000963.jpg Those 'sandals' he's wearing look very much like the 'hemp' sandals whalers wore in the 19th century (according to info from Mystic Seaport Museum). All references to sandals seem to be early - the 16th and 17th centuries. Now, that would likely mean that such sandals were still available, but who would wear them? Since the rope sandals seems synonymous with Spanish sailors, could it be that such sandals were cultural preference? If so, that might explain the lack of them on French, Dutch and English pirates, seeing as how they were all usually hunting the Spanish and probably didn't want to be confused for one by dressing like them. Let's hope someone digs up additional information on rope sandals, will be interested in learning more... das

Like corsair said, most supermarkets (with an in-house butcher) have beef suet in the refrigerated section. I believe this is suitable for human consumption if it's rendered. As far as eating it - well, my family traditionally keeps a jar of fat drippings by the stove...sometimes we put it out for the birds, but my mother often re-used it for cooking, especially if she knew what the fat was from. For instance, if she knew it was only from bacon drippings, she would reuse it for cooking greens or spinach or something. Unrefrigerated drippings left on the countertop...and we didn't die from food poisoning. yet. I also read a real-life experience of a family that had to escape from a Nazi controlled region of Europe during WWII. The grandmother grabbed a pot of fat when they fled, and every day they would each dip their small piece of bread in that pot of fat, and it kept the family alive while they travelled to safety. So, rendered fat from pork or beef (and probably lamb) can be used for cooking (to add flavor or as a substitute for oil), or just eaten right out of a pot for survival (NOT sure how safe it is to do that without reheating it, but as you see from the above account, it has been done). Hope that helps. das

Laurens de Graff, Laurent de Graff, Lorenzo, Lorencillo, de Graf, de Graft, or de Griffe...whatever you want to call him, I'm intrigued by this pirate of a thousand names, and I would like to know as much about him as possible. The only information I have on him is from the book, The Lost Fleet ~ by Barry Clifford, and I'm not sure how respected that information is. All I can find on-line is are bits and pieces that are already covered in the aforementioned book. Outside of what is in The Lost Fleet, is there any other GOOD source information about this man and his piratical career? He seems to be an amazing person and pirate, and I'd like to know all there is about him. Also - what are your impressions of him? I'm interested because there is so little mention of him here, when others (ones I would consider less successful considering their fate) are spoken of quite often. Any info (and discussion) would be appreciated!! das

Foxe...I'm a wee bit confuzzled. I'm also a WEEEEEE bit sparrowed, so speak slowly...k??? *hic* That's some fantastic information!! Good lord - I would hate to be the 'liar'...eep! Where is the above information from, and to what sort of ship does it refer?? A pirate or privateer? Navy hulk? Merchant? I know that they would use vinegar to wash down naval vessels, and that spitting on deck was punishable by flogging. So yes, a certain amount of cleanliness was expected. I have alos read - somewhere - something similar to this: "...and to admonish them all in general to be cleanly and neat; and to inform the Captain of all such as are not, that they may not by their nastiness be offensive to their neighbours." Not sure where I read it, but the general idea was, with so many men living is such a confined area, it was not acceptable for one's body odor to be overbearing. As far as washing goes - the information I have on the British navy is that washing was done in seawater - NOT the most acceptable water because it left the clothing damp and irritating. In one reference I have the lads washed their clothes in 'peas water' - can we assume that's the water the peas were boiled in?? I have also read that they used urine to 'bleach' their white dress shirts - but not sure of the accuracy of that account because urine was used as a mordant to 'fix' dyes, and therefore apt to fix stains, too. Washing in fresh water was considered a luxury - HOWEVER, in the Caribbean with so many islands scattered about, it may have been easier to obtain fresh water from various locations (including rainwater) and therefore easier to bathe or wash clothing without the salt factor. I have been in many discussions on the hygiene of a seafaring man, and even grilled my brother, a fisherman, on the subject. He told me the ones you LEAST expect to be dirty are, and after a week at sea, some start smelling pretty ripe. But in a structured environment, such as aboard a naval vessel, I think things may have been different. That's why I'm curious about what sort of vessel that information referred to... Post more, please - I would love to learn more!! das

I just got me roma gold Aztec coin in the mail today, and I must say, it's great!! I have another one that came from overseas...it's very nice, too, but the detail in HM's coin is FAR superior - crisp and clear. Very, Very nice indeed. I also like the roma gold tone as opposed to the bright gold, it just looks...less tacky... Very nice - thanks SO much for it and yes, I think I might be interested in another if you make up another batch!! das

I just received an advertisement for a pirate musical at the Stand Theater, in Lakewood, NJ on April 1&2 and 8&9. From the advertisement, it seems geared for younger audiences. It's called 'Twin Treasures: in Search of the Pirate Coin'. This production is supposed to visit 6 cities, but not sure if they are all in Jersey, or elsewhere, and I have absolutely NO idea if this is a decent play, or not..not even sure IF it's a play.... For aditional information, go to http://www.twintreasures.net or http://www.strandlakewood.com . das

'Resurrecting' this thread because I just finished watching Treasure Island with hubby... I love this movie - loved it the first time I saw it back in 1990 (and was smart enough to tape it then), and have been watching it again for the last few weeks after digging it out of the VCR-tape black hole... I contacted TNT a couple of weeks ago, asking if they would consider re-airing it. They said they would forward my request to the programming department, so perhaps it wouldn't hurt for other TI & pirate fans to send off an e-mail to TNT (I just went to their site, don't have the url off the top o' me 'ead at present). I also asked if they would consider releasing it in DVD format, to which they said they have no plans to do so...again, it might not hurt if other people interested in this movie would start buggin' TNT for some piratage on DVD! I bought a new tape copy through Amazon, so some are still available although it's out of print. It's not cheap though, but well worth it. Now, to get a copy on DV...nevermind. I'm so pleased with this movie...I think it's about the best I've seen, considering it's 'made for tv'. I love the music, The Chieftans were just perfect for this soundtrack and for creating the right atmosphere in the film. Tonight, when Mr. Das and I settled down to watch the movie, we decided to make it an 'event'. We set an ol' barrel 'tween us fer our 'table', the top scattered with gold and silver coins, and we dined on Jamaican beef patties and apples, washin' 'em down wif Scottish ale from our leather mugs. Oh, and we had our bottle of rum...but yo-ho-ho!! That be fer dessert, mates!! das

The site I got that from is here: http://www.militaryheritage.com/marines.htm ...but it doesn't go back further than 1755. Perhaps they need to be informed about the 'royal' thing... If it is 'jewelry', then why is it attached to the cloth?? Most jewelry is detachable, but this seems to be fixed, thus suggesting it's more significant than simple ornamentation. Of course, I guess it could be a Masonic symbol (is the 'triangle' patch symbolic of the pyramid?), or a badge of mourning. Both would explain a lack of further identification with it, such as the 'Or Glory' banner attached to the Dragoons'/Lancers' death's head badge. Now I'm wishing there was a book on the origin and history of the death's head symbol. Most books that I've seen only deal with the SS, which isn't exactly what I'm looking for... das

YES!! I AM a character!!! oh....wait... *reads question again* sorry mate, misunderstood ya there for a sec... Well, like Cap'n PS says, "I yam what I yam..." I don't know how to 'act', so even when in pirate mode ('Arrrrr, me 'earties!'), it's just 'me', being insane. I do it here, I do it in real life. I don't change my personality for my audience...but I might change the way I interact depending on my mood. Sometimes I come here, or to other sites, and I'm just wired - happy and playful and it'll come out in my posts. But I'm not 'in character' when I do that, nor am I acting...it's just... me. But then when I'm in the mood for deep discussion, I try to put on my serious face and behave...but sometimes it's hard because I love to joke around. Not always sure how it's perceived on-line, though. But I'm like that in RL too - if I hold the door for someone, I ask for 'toll money', and usually get a chuckle out of the person...and I've been known to dance down the street during a storm, belting out 'Singing in the Rain'. When it comes to escaping reality - well, I USED to go online to escape reality, that's how I discovered the net, actually. But I was always myself on any site I visited, I never tried to pretend to be something or someone else. Well, I got bored 'escaping reality' about two years ago (it gets really old after a while), so now I just come here (an to other sites) to 1. have fun, and 2. keep informed, but always as myself, and nothing else... das

I've found additional information on a death's head being a symbol of mourning as early as the 15th century, worn as a brooch or, specific to the 18th century, as a ring. But perhaps this information may shed additional light on it's origin: "Finally, before leaving the subject of what constitutes "Long Range" in the days of the round ball, we will look at the regulations of The Duke of Cumberland’s Sharp Shooters taken from HELPS AND HINTS HOW TO PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY, written in 1835 by Baron de Berenger. There were four classifications for the qualified shot. To achieve the Fourth Class, 50 yards, on a 30 inch target, five hits out of six shots taken off-hand carried the right to wear a black silk cockade. For the Third Class, as the Fourth, but at 100 yards, and a green centre for the cockade. The Second Class fired at 150 yards with three shots off-hand and three from a rest for an all green cockade. To attain the First Class, and still on the same thirty inch target, six shots were taken at 200 yards, but all from a rest. The all green cockade now sports a bronze skull and crossbones badge and the holders of this honour continued their shooting at ranges of up to three hundred yards." Though dealing with a later date and a different metal, perhaps this is what that badge symbolizes. Since this is a Maritime museum, I tend to feel that it must have something to do with naval service of some kind. Could this badge been worn by a marine sharpshooter, perhaps, similar to the one later used in the 19th century as described above? das

Here's a site with some interesting information - perhaps it's related: http://www.annapolis.org/aia/green%20print%20shop.htm Could this badge be worn in a similar form of protest? The Dragoons badge is slightly different: http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/army...ragoons1759.htm Interesting bit I found on the standing orders for the Royal Marines c.1755 - 1765: "1764 (Plymouth) Officers ordered to have "Uniform Frocks lapelled with white cloth with a Death's Head button." No picture of such a button, but this indicates that the death's head was used by many different divisions, not all of which are commonly known. Also, it's interesting that this is a marine's button...perhaps they had other badges (though the green fabric is more indicative to the Dragoons)... das

yeah - i guess i could do that... das

I'll see what i can do about a picture...but...that requires buying film, shooting an entire roll, developing it...and scanning the pic into the 'puter, which means I MIGHT be able to get one up in three or four weeks... I checked on-line for a picture of one, but couldn't find any. Basically it's a leather shoe, with a rubbery sole. Of course rubber is not period, but it will have to do for now. About moving the buckle - not sure I can...well, perhaps I can... *looks*...hmmm... there might be a way, but if I decided to do that, I'd take it to a cobbler or something, don't want to take a chance. The buckle isn't FAR over to the side, but it's definitely not centered, either. Hey, I can just say they were made in France, eh?? The toe is really squared, though there is the SLIGHTEST angle distinguishing right from left. Gah - I guess it would be best to take a stinkin' picture, eh?? das

Guess what I found at K-Mart today?? Cheap piratesque shoes! JR, they're a lot like those in your picture, only the tongue is a bit shorterand the buckle slightly off-center, but otherwise, with the squared toe and all, they're a fairly decent 'imitation' of an 18th century shoe (if the kids ONLY knew they were wearing such old-fashioned footwear... ), and will suffice until I can afford a better and more accurately made shoe. The heel is a little higher than I'd like (about 1.5"), but will have to do for now. I might invest in a pair of those sandals, too - thanks for the link, Dorian L.... Now, should I paint these heals red... das