Hawkyns

I'd rate it by the size of the charge, not the bore. 200 grains or less, and I'd treat it like a musket. Over that and I'd consider it a cannon. the noise made would depend on the length of the barrel, type of breech, iron or bronze, etc.. so the amount of powder needed to make a respectable bang would not neccesailry corelate to the bore size.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

There is the Lockehouse event over the weekend of July 11th, just outside of Baltimore in Havre de Grace. That should be less than a two hour drive from DC.

It tends to be a smaller event, but what it lacks in numbers, it more than makes up for in heart (going from the two times I have been).

Well. bugger! That's the weekend that the Half Moon is coming to CT and we're doing a 1609-1654 encampment with her.

No Lock House again.

Hawkyns

By any chance do you have one for Elizabeth I or Charles II?

Hawkyns

http://www.hmsrichmond.org/images/Gun%20exercise.pdf

This is the one I use for later period, with, of course, modifications for modern safety regs.

Hawkyns

Won't make it this year. They changed the date so it would not conflict with Easter, and so made it conflict with one of our standard events. I really wish sites would not bugger their schedules about because of religious holidays.

Hawkyns

A a couple of years ago, I found a brass dragon headed linstock at a sutler's booth. Like everything else these days, it was made in India. they are around, but don't seem to show up on google searches. That one, BTW, was the same one used in POTC 3, don't know which came first, the movie or the linstock. For earlier types, the wooden ones with the slot, google the Mary Rose linstocks. Or you vould do as I've also done, go to a reenactor blacksmith and have him custom make one for you.

Hawkyns

Patrick, that looks very similar to the 30 round French giberne here

http://www.thequartermastergeneral.com/?category=leather_goods&morepics=true&id=803

I'm in the process of making one for my 1685 kit. It's very similar to the illustrations for the Brit one of the same era.

Here is a source showing pulverins and gibernes from the various periods. The giberens are on page 33-34. It's in French, but the info is well illustrated.

http://www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/Eq_Mil_Petard_1.pdf

Hawkyns

Thank ye, All!! I raise my jack of rum to all o' ye. It is good to hae friends such as ye.

Hawkyns

Hmmm..... The first grown up, full length movie I saw was Zulu. I was 8. This may explain some things.......

Hawkyns

Jon it's that fine line, one of those 'you know it when you see it', sort of things. The standards are different for the two festivals. We in the fort are more interested in the historical side of things, trying to show more reality in our camps and dress, etc. We actually live in the tents and have more of a community atmosphere. The vendors out at PiP are perhaps less concerned with accuracy and the people and crews are more scattered. PiP vendors sell plastic eyepatches and gee gaws for the kiddies and tourists (as well as some other good stuff). FTPI vendors are selling supplies for reenactors.

This makes it sound like some great superiority thing. It isn't. The PiP is more focused on the family festival, the tourist, and the person that just wants to have a good time. In the FTPI living history displays, we are doing more teaching, more in depth stuff, and things that are more geared to the person with more than a passing interest.

Goddess Help me, PLEASE nobody take offense at this. It is a genuine attempt to show the differences between the two festivals, not some attempt to make trouble. Problem is that when you do try and show differences, somebody will always take umbrage, thinking that it is some kind of insult where none is intended.

Hawkyns

Sounds like a good idea, Hurricane. If we use FTPI when we talk about it, here and on other boards and in conversation, it will up the visibility. There is diversity, and what we do is different from what was happening on Truman Wharf. The more we can separate the two names, the more we should be able to generate interest to come and see what we are doing and to get people to seek us out.

Stynky, I'm in favour of splitting the topics. How about we name the overall section Key West Pirate Festivals and then have 2 separate subheadings, one for FTPI and another for PiP?

Hawkyns

ENOUGH! I will not let this degenerate any further. Be nice or I will remove the topic.

Hawkyns, Moderator

No problem, Beowoulf. I'll bring leather and dye and we'll see what we can do. I cut belts to size so as long as I have a long enough hide, we should be fine.

I'll be there at opening bell, 8am on Thursday, so look me up.

Hawkyns

Sorry, no pictures. I'm a luddite when it comes to this stuff. Since I leave for PiP in 36 hours (making 3 stops on the way down), I won't have time to get tech help in.

Hawkyns.

what are your prices on cutlass master hawkyns? ...........i am.....in the market as it were........and have you any pictures?.......

They start at 70 for a basic short cutlass with scabbard and baldric, up to 150 for the fancy with the horn and shellguard hilt, with scabbard. I also have a couple of court swords for the captains and gentlemen among us.

Hawkyns

I need to stop in and see you. I have been looking for a new belt. I love the one the Jekyll the Hidesmith made me some years ago, but want to have a second belt as well. We'll talk.

No problem. I've got some plain belts and sword belts already made up, and I'm bringing leather and supplies to make more.

Michael, I've got 4 cutlasses in stock, including the one I just finished with a shell guard and horn grip.

Hawkyns

Thanks James!!!!

Hawkyns

Good Morning, Beowoulf.

It's hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like it may be reprocessed leather, or some very thin splits. Either way, I'm not seeing any natural topgrain, just artificial finish.

Let me know what you are looking for in terms of sizes. Width of buckles, length of belt and baldric, etc. I will be bringing tools and raw leather, so I'll be able to work on pieces on site, as well as repairs for people.

Hawkyns

At The Sign Of The White Rose will be at the Fort Taylor Pirate Invasion, in the fort. We'll have shirts, slops, coats, belts, baldrics and assorted leather gear. I've also made up some one of a kind cutlasses. So whether you are camped in the fort or staying elsewhere in Key West, come see us and get yourself ready for the festivities!

Hawkyns

Diosa- I'll be on for the beef stew and the pig roast. NOT for the chicken (chicken is foul ).

Lily- will the gates be open Wednesday night for those of us driving down? That way we can at least get to the parking lot and bathroom.

Hawkyns

[but again, I think all sorts of stuff could and did happen. That doesn't mean it was SOP. Several people have implied that this is general behavior without supplying any actual proof. The court records are proof, but I explained why you shouldn't rely exclusively on them to make your point.

As for drinking a lot, I know regular sailors drank quite a bit shipboard from reading different journals and accounts. So drinking appears to have been a lot more prevalent then as Hurricane suggests, which also indicates that tolerances for alcohol were greater. (Unless you think their physiology was different then.)

I think the main difference is that we are comparing two different areas. The research presented is from the colonies, from relatively respectable areas, where there was an operating justice system. I'm more interested in the Port Royal type areas, when the legal system did not function and acceptable behaviour was whatever did not get you killed.

I base this on a couple of things. From the few existing pirate codes we have, fighting and stealing from each other was one of the most considered items. If this was not such an issue, why was it so forcefully mentioned in these codes? Second, the pirate rep had to come from somewhere. Calling Port Royal the 'Wickedest Town in the World' was not a mild insult, considering the general attitude of the period.

Hurricane, are there any court records from Port Royal? I know most such things were destroyed in the quake, but had any been shipped to other places, Admiralty Courts, Governor General's records, etc.?

SOP varies. I know from my study of the ECW that things were very different in England than they were in the colonies. The American Colonies had quite the puritan influence and towns and cities were considerably more staid than similar towns and cities in England. Based on what I've researched of England in the 1640's to 1690's, and what I've read of Port Royal and similar places, I think trying to take behavioural examples from the American Colonies is a bit skewed.

Hawkyns

With this point in mind it is perhaps worth bearing in mind that the standard navy issue was 1 gallon of beer per man per day.

But with my above post in mind, how strong was the beer/cider? A gallon of 2% beer only contains the same amount of alcohol as 2 pints of 8% beer.

Well, considering that I have seen more than a few of my Yank friends fall over when trying to keep up with the Brits beer consumption........

There is definitely a consideration of how much you are used to drinking and what your tolerance level is.

And what do they mean by 'cider'. Frequently, in the US, that refers to unfermented apple juice. There are alcoholic ciders, both then and now, but the modern ones are not as strong as modern Brit ciders. Do we have any clue what the alcohol level of 17th century colonial cider was? And I never see references to scrumpe on this side of the pond. Seems that kind of cider was uncommon to say the least..

Hawkyns

But then you have to consider the general mindset. The people of the time, and especially sailors, had a very different concept of private vs public behaviour. People were used to living on top of each other. Even in the article it quotes sources saying it was quite reasonable for men and women unknown to each other to share beds or to dress in front of each other.

Consider also that the woman had a gallon of cider before she was brought to the attention of the authorites. If that cider was anything like the scrump I've had in Somerset, I'm surprised she was still conscious enough to do anything! If we want to consider it in today's terms, what gets reported is only a fraction of what happens, but, depending on your circle of society, much worse may happen but not be considered worth reporting.

Think of it this way, what would get the police involved in a Georgetown bar, would not even be noticable at Sturgis.

This is getting a bit convoluted, and I'm not sure I'm making my point. Basically, I think we are still looking at this with a bit too much of a modern eye. Of course we can't know all the details of what happened, but when we consider that the late 17th century was a time of licentiousness and excess (in reaction to the previous puritan interregnum), and the reputation that was built from the actions of the pirates and seamen, I think we can reasonably guess that things were pretty wiold in the waterfront taverns.

Hawkyns

Interesting stuff. The more I read it, and the more I look at the art provided with it, the more I begin to think that there may have been more truth than satire in some of Hogarth's work. Particularly with the art, some of it is showing exactly the same things.

Hawkyns

Such will always be the problem, I fear. Someone will say they want to play all on period contact pub but then someone will end up with red wine spilled all over their duds and get pissy about it, wanting to change the rules midstream. There would be no curbing behavior unless it was by duel or cutlass. Things just aren't settled the same way these days. Pity. A good drubbing would do some people good in this world.

Thats a good point. My kit has many match burn holes, gun spooge stains, wear stains and the like. I wash my shirt, but the doublet and breeches get washed when it rains or when the bow spray hits it. So a wine stain wouldn't bother me a bit. But there are pirates out there who don't see it the same way. Hell, I've known pirates who have their kit dry cleaned.

We need to get together at PIP and see how many others would be interested in a real pirate evening. Not for the faint of heart or the picky.

Hawkyns