Hawkyns

First, I agree that we need a standardised set of rules for the pirate community. It is ridiculous that the same core group of people go to many of the same events and have different rules at each one, depending on the organising group.

I'm a solid proponent of flash guards. I've done a lot of firing from the regimental line and from skirmish order. The gas and flash have never, to me, been an issue. What has been an issue is the shards of flint that come ripping out of the pan. I've been hit in the face more than a few times and at distances of up to 10-12 feet. This seems to be more and more of an issue lately, since we seem to be getting an inferior grade of flint.

Hammer stalls are even more of a requirement for us, IMO. We fight in a manner more similar to skirmishers. We load and then move. Moving with a loaded weapon over rough ground is an invitiation to unintentional discharge. The hammer stall is just a sane safety measure.

Flashguards are easy for matchlocks. Solder an 'L' shaped piece of steel to the top of the pan cover, so that it is against the back plate of the pan when closed. When the pan opens, the 'L' piece aoutomatically becomes the flash guard. And yes, burning shreds of match do fly out, especially with a big pan, or a loosely woven match.

Lastly, another thing that I am a proponent of, and that I rarely see at pirate battles, is a line safety inspection that includes ringing the barrel. I don't know how many of us actually shoot live, but I know I do and so do some of our crew. I like to make sure that someone doesn't have a ball down that didn't discharge, or they forgot.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner.

Entirely possible. I've also seen references to tar being used in place of paint;

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

Agreed on Heston's Treasure Island. I'll also watch Cutthroat Island. Not piratical or period, but I also tend to watch one or more of the Sharpe movies. Gets me into a good, fighting, anti authority mood.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

Oderlesseye- question. Why was the black powder permit pulled. As a master gunner and safety inspector, an accident happening so soon after a permit being pulled makes me wonder.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

There was something posted in the Muzzleloading forum ( http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ ) a long time ago about how Kit Ravenshare (I know I horrably butchered the spelling of his name) painted a musket.(and how butt ugly it looked) but if I remember correctly it was after our time period, so I never painted mine.

I saw that musket and talked to Kit about it. Butt ugly doesn't cover the half of it. Stock was carved out of what was effectlively a 2x6 and it was painted with deck paint. Crude in the extreme. But, as always, Kit had the documentation and could justify everything that he'd done. As I recall, it was a mid 17th century piece that I saw.

I have a musket with a blackened stock and barrel. Actually a Littlecote Carbine from John Buck. I refinished the stock with black oil leather dye, and the barrel is blackened with barrel black.

Hawkyns

[]

Hawkyns, you must have done 18c wayyy long ago, as I've been doing it for over 25 years and it's been full of grimy camp followers, grubby cooks, kept women and various scandalous folk.

Depends what circuit you are on, I guess. Up here across the Hudson, they take the whole New England puritan heritage very seriously. BB, and CL events are pretty straightforward. If there are any shenanigans going on, it's in the Brit camp. The American camp will be quiet by 10pm, church service Sunday morning, no floggings or camp punishments, no sports in camp, etc. Very rare to see any disturbance at all.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner.

Did anybody get any pictures of the 3 guns firing from the pier on Sunday afternoon? I haven't seen any yet.

Hawkyns,

Master Gunner

Clothing wise, it does make sense, I agree. But it does show up the difference in how children were considered in earlier times. 7 year olds down the mines and down the chimneys, just for example. I really wish there was more documentation on what Roberts concidered 'boys'.

As a point to the original post, I've been on several ships where getting into the magazine would be a major hassle for a grown man, or even a teen, at least doing it in the heat of battle. Small boys would be much more able to get in and out fast.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner.

Remember that boys, until the age of 5 or so, were treated much as girls, even wearing smocks instead of breeches. "breeching', or getting their first pair of breeches, at about age 5, was one of the stages in life back then.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

Don't do it. We don't want to hear about somebody blowing themselves up. It reflects on all of us. Plus, to make the amount needed for a cannon would require a huge investment in materials and equipment, far more than just buying the powder.

Just FYI, If I find that someone has been making or adulterating their powder, and I am in charge of the line, they will be stood down.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner.

. If I understand some of the comments correctly, I think I am hearing that if one is a trained re-enactor it's okay to do this? I hope I am misunderstanding this.

I think you are misunderstanding. I generally don't pose for pictures with the public, certainly not with weapons. The public I interact with are generally more interested in the history and the weapons, not getting a 'cute' picture with some guys dressed funny. What I'm talking about is vignettes staged between reenactors for informational, publicity, or educational purposes. My feeling is that If I'm actually going to swing a blade or fire a piece at them in reenactment, a static pose is no big deal in comparison.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner.

How are you defining the difference?

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

As I said, I do NOT support randomly pointing weapons at people, and I advocate being aware of your surroundings at ALL times. Drawing a pointy weapon in a crowd is stupid, as you could get bumped while holding it. Again, being aware of your surroundings is important. I guess stupid people will always exist and will bear watching. I think a "one size fits all" rule is not very suitable.

Agreed. We have gone from a simple pointing weapons scenario to a drunk idiot with weapons scenario. Two very different things.

OK, I'm going to open a very large can of worms. It's been opened before, but somehow always manages to get closed with no resolution.

It is my opinion that we have way too many yahoos in the pirate community that think rules don't apply to piates, that drunken pirate is one word, and that weapons should always be handy and unsheathed. There are many of us who have been fighting with swords, muskets, and cannon for many years. (about 30 in my case) We work as safety officers, battle marshals, weapons inspectors and other jobs neccesary to safe reenactments. it is rare that we don't get hasseled by somebody who thinks that we are being too harsh, to uptight, or too 'safe'.

Therein lies the problem and the difference in our attitude, Ivan. If we take the attitude that everyone should be able to turn out with any weapons they wish, with no guarantee of training or skill, then I'd have to agree that your attitude makes sense. If, however, you take an attitude like my crew and other crews that I work with, that weapons safety comes first, that no alcohol comes out until the camp is closed and the weapons and powder secured (powder under lock and key), and that people are not allowed to draw weapons and play with each other until they have been trained and qualified, then you have a much safer scenario.

Elitist? Damn Right! Weapons are for people who know how to use them, not for anybody with 50 bucks o buy a cheap cutlass to wave around. Real pirates were professionals with their weapons. Read the various articles- weapons safety and maintainance were requirements.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

While I see the argument about firearms (not that I neccesarily agree with it as a blanket rule), what is the problem with steel? Seems just a little too PC to me. We actually hit each other with those weapons, and fire the guns at each other during reenactments. What makes posing for a picture different?

Hawkyns

LOL!! No it's a cut and paste of his, under another name, from the Frontier Folk MB.

Hadn't seen the one on this board.

Hawkyns

Master gunner.

Came across this on another forum:

In 1672, when he was a young sailor/pilot, his ship got captured, they took everything and the crew was sent in prison in Ostend.

They spend 3 days and prison, than are freed and each men is given the equivalent of "15 sol" to pay for their way back to France and the men are left in a very miserable condition:

...je n'avois sur moy qu'un justaucorps sans manches raptassé de pièces de thoille godronnés et une pareille culotte, des vieux bas de deux couleurs et sans pieds, et de misérables souliers qui m'abandonnèrent à la première lieue, et pour bonnet le haut d'un vieux bas attaché avec une ficelle...

...all I had with me was a sleeveless justaucorp patched with some tarred canvas and similar breeches, some olds "feetless" socks of different colours, some crappy shoes that dyed on me at the first mile and for a hat, the top of an old sock tight up with a string...

This is from the journal of Jean Doublet available from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.co...6740383&sr=1-11

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

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Quite true but I have used to think that it is dangerous to make " genereal rules" about the pirates or their ships. Actually a quite many pirates had large or medium ships the small ones were a little more popular but that is not so simple.

Even so, one of the largest ships, by all accounts, was Robert's ship, The Royal Fortune. A period description from one of her victims read " The said Roberts' ship.....has mounted 12 eight-pounders; 4 twelve-pounders; 12 six-pounders; 6 (bronze) eight-pounders, , and 8 four-pounders; and in her main and foremast has 7 guns, two and three pounders, and 2 swivel guns upon her mizzen."

A lot of guns, to be sure, but nothing particularly heavy. Only 4 12s, which would be the only things with anything that might be considered long range, and that only by being generous.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

If you are talking about the precursor to a boarding action, then it changes a bit. The shot a ships gun would be firing would be unlikely to be a solid ball. Chain shot- two smaller cannon balls with chain between them, or bar shot- two smaller cannon balls attachecd by a steel bar of varying length, would be the primary ammunition used, designed to take out the rigging of the enemy ship and to stop her sailing away or manoevering. Those types of shot tend to be a bit smaller than bore size so that they do not jam when fired. That makes them less powerful and therefore have less range and accuracy. Say, maybe 200 yards, max. Closer still and the guns would be firing cannister or case shot- thin wood or tin cans filled with musket balls or scrap metal designed to kill people on the deck without damaging the ship. Probably 100 yards or less.

Remember also that pirate ships, as a general rule, were smaller ships. The large ships were rarities, unlike what you see in the movies, so ships capable of carrying 18pounders or heavier would be extremely rare. 3 and 6 pounders, with some 12 pounders, would be your more standard armament, so the long ranges would not be common.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

Ticking type stripes can be documented back to at least the end of the 16th Century. The stripes are thin, 1/4-3/8 inch, and run vertically when made into clothing. This was a common fabric and used, as it it still is for pillows and mattress covers.

Hawkyns

Is there any possibility that those stripes at the top are a stretchy stitch, like garter stitch, to aid in holding them up?

Hawkyns

I looked at that one. I can not find any website that gives any details of the event, or any info on reenactors registration, camping, etc.

Hawkyns

Is anything piratical happening in the North East, New England area on Memorial Day Weekend? Looking at the schedules, it seems mighty thin around here all summer. Even a bunch of the regular events have not published details for this year.

Hawkyns

Recently come across some references to a Brown Bess Ship's Carbine. Standard butt, lock and furniture but only a 26 inch barrel. Supposedly these barrels came in both bright and dulled finishes. I've seen some pictures but been unable to determine if this was original, and 18th c modificaion or a modern cutdown. Anybody have any further info?

Hawkyns

Thanks for rebooting this thread, Mission. It's one we should all reread from time to time.

Hawkyns

I'd have to say the final fight in Rob Roy, with Liam Neeson and Tim Roth. Broadsword against smallsword, and again, choreographed by Bill Hobbs, IMO the greatest fight director ever.