Cascabel

I think it may be a matter of "where", rather than "when". Most, but certainly not all of the examples of old originals of this type that I have encountered are of North African or Middle Eastern origin. Of course, trade existed between the Mediterranean area and the rest of the world, so the style was not unknown elsewhere. European made examples usually have more traditional proportions.

They often were made incorporating European made locks salvaged from older weapons, and there was always a thriving gun parts trade going on also, so one must be careful when evaluating some of these things as to origin and age. You can't just go by the markings on the lock when looking at old guns. Style of decoration, proofmarks, matching quality of all parts, fit and construction of parts, etc. all need to be looked at to reach a conclusion. This discussion may be better served in the "Lock Stock and Barrel" section.

>>>>> Cascabel

Hey gang, working late on a group project teacher thang on campus and took some time out to browse the old hang-outs and came up with this little bit of info, thought I'd pass it along as I know several folks here have these pistols.

http://www.historica...opic.php?t=9109

Have a good'un.

Bo

Avast there, Shipmate !!!! Glad yer still around. Good to hear from ye.....

>>>>> Cascabel

Just to clarify the gold chains I mentioned being worn was wealth being brought back from the new world to Spain. If memory serves jewlery was not taxed so if you desired to return with "duty free" items you made sure it was jewlery and not coins or gold bars. This jewlery would be something that had worth in the old world (gold, gems, etc).

.......and pure gold is quite soft, like lead, so individual links could be twisted off easily to pay for something if needed. Seems to me that one of the gold chains found on the Atocha was made of links of one ounce weight each. How convenient !!

>>>> Cascabel

i really do not understand all this hair beads like the jonny depp disney represents, beads were used in the 16th throughout the 19th centuries for trade and a currency with local african tribes (slave trade) and native americans in the new world and in the spanish main areas, for gold/silver/jewles/spices, beads were similar to the quahog (clam shell) wampum, used as a currency within the eastern woodland tibes like the (iroquois). the colors were often drabby in color, with baby blue being high in demand. its like do you ever see pirates wearing dabloons or peices of eight as buttons on clothing, it didnt happen. you would see earings of gold or silver.it would be nice to see more authenticity at pirate faires with proper encampment shelters (not wall tents) ,tools, weapons, and clothing that actualy represents the time period you are trying to recreate . seeing these halloween outfits and disney movie fantasy just doesnt do justice when other re-enactors try to protray the right circa. most re-enactors do the GAOP circa, atleast from the pictures represented in alot of the pyracy pub photos.lets do without the hairbeads as it just wasnt logical to see that on englishman or colonist, maybe africans and natives would wear them.. it downsizes yer garb and looks pretty lame! lets get real.

As Patrick has stated so well, this is not Twill. This is a forum for anyone to show off the things they made, and to let others know, who might be interested, on how they made them. 777pirate4, you are welcome to personally disagree with the wearing of beads in or on pirate garb, but this is not the forum to state those disagreements. If it is something you feel strongly about, take the issue to Twill and start a discussion there.

This forum is for anyone to show off their talents for making things — anything — that might relate to piracy in any and all of its many forms.

As stated in the intro on the main page, "Pyrate CraftA Devil's Playground of sorts, all are welcome & encouraged to participate. Share the secrets to fabricating your kit - clothes, props, & items. Show off what you can do, or sit back and learn from your betters. This is not the place to dispute or critique Period Correctness, but a safe place to share & learn the how of what each other can do."

Alright, thanks mates, I'll have an expert look it over and see if it's safe to fire.

The Japanese pistols that you refer to vary immensely in quality, and must be evaluated on an individual basis. They are usually referred to as "TOWER" pistols by most people because of the lock markings. I have never determined if the variation in quality is due to different manufacturers of these or if it is a matter of when they were made, with the lower quality ones being built towards the end of the production runs, or possibly a combination of the two factors. Most of them that I have examined have various glaring faults. Some problems being more serious than others. However, ALL can be made to function with some work. It is mostly whether or not you consider the amount of work to be worth the time or expense. All of them have bad geometry, which is a matter of internal lock variations having to do with the relationship of the tumbler to the sear, and also the angle at which the flint hits the steel. They also usually do not have properly balanced springs, which has to do with the strength of the frizzen spring in relation to the mainspring. There are also usually hardness issues with the frizzen and internal lock parts. I have also seen some where there is a gap between the lock and the side of the barrel large enough to allow powder to work it's way down behind the lock with potentially disastrous results if it were to ignite. They also benefit greatly from a bit of re-styling to improve their appearance. Again, all these things can be corrected and a decent pistol can be had, depending on how much work is needed. I have been told that there are a few that have bad barrels, but I have not run across any. All that I have dealt with have had quality issues regarding the locks, which can vary considerably on the inside, while appearing quite similar externally. They also have had problems such as the lock to barrel fitment previously mentioned.

>>>> Cascabel

It seems to me that there would be very little need to traverse a cannon on a ship under way, as the ship is moving horizontally, and the target is also in motion horizontally, so the gun will naturally come to bear on the target anyhow. It would be just a matter of getting the proper elevation for the range, and waiting for the right moment to fire, keeping in mind the roll of the ship. Minor adjustments, if needed would be done using handspikes, which are large levers used like prybars and also used to adjust elevation. To set the elevation, the large wooden wedge is positioned under the breech manually while the weight of the barrel is held up by the handspikes.

>>>> Cascabel

A "real" treasure chest would actually have to be rather small. The popular conception of a couple of pirates carrying one of those big hump-backed chests overflowing with gold would be impossible. Gold is actually heavier than lead, and one of those huge ones full of treasure would require a fork-lift to carry it, and would likely burst open from the weight of the gold, or the bottom would fall out.

>>>>> Cascabel

its spelled weskit

Actually it is "waistcoat" but spell it anyway you want. Spelling was not standardized in the early 18th century. Regional accents have be reconstructed using the phonetic spellings of the time.

Mark

Indeed it is spelled "waistcoat", and often, (but not always) pronounced "weskit"....

>>>>> Cascabel

Thanks to everyone who has helped on this, I appriciate your time!

Ahoy, Chrispy....

In response to your message....... For some reason the system would not let me reply direct to you.

I used early model Brown Bess locks on the blunderbusses that I built. I don't have any spare locks on hand. You can probably get a lock from Track of the Wolf, or The Rifle Shoppe (if you don't mind waiting forever and being outright lied to about delivery times). You can make a replacement lockplate and use the internal parts if you want a different looking lock, and even a different style of cock. I like the Brown Bess lock because of the excellent geometry. ( this does not apply to India-made repros). There are also good repro French musket locks available from the same sources. Any of the large musket locks would likely suit your purpose.

>>>> Cascabel

I don't mind you asking at all, Korisios! I am planning to build a replica cannon that can be used in parades, festivals, and other similar events. This cannon needs to be safe, and able to be fired with many people looking on, or from a parade float. Thus, I am building it in the form or a carbide cannon, which is basically nothing more than a noise maker, as nothing is placed down the barrel that could act as a projectile. However, unlike most carbide cannons that are seen, my version will be built to mimic a real historical cannon. The carbide, which is an inexpensive chemical used to fuel miners' lamps, is found in the form of small pellets, lumps, or powder, and can be obtained cheaply and easily. When mixed with water, it produces a small amount of acetylene gas that makes a loud "BANG" when ignited.

After reading the novel Flint and Silver by John Drake, in which the favored gun of Israel Hands is a Spanish 9 pounder, and coupled with the fact that I have always admired Spanish culture, I became enamored with the idea of building and owning a Spanish cannon. I am also writing a story in which my own ship, the Revenant is a captured Spanish vessel, so its guns in the story are likewise Spanish guns. Spanish cannons from the 17th and early 18th century often times tended to be more ornate and fancy than other contemporary European cannons, so that attracts me to them as well.

I have seen photos of an original Spanish gun now located in California that bore a heraldic crest in the form of a double-headed eagle along its first reinforce, and had ornate "dolphins" (lifting loops); features that I intend to incorporate into my replica.

If you ever get to upstate New York, be sure to visit Ft. Ticonderoga. They have a large number of fancy bronze cannons on the ramparts. Some Spanish, some Dutch, some French, etc. Most have the fancy dolphins and coats of arms. I have not been there for many years, but I was fascinated by all the ornate bronze guns. They are not original to the fort, but as I remember they were donated by a wealthy benefactor at some point, I think in the early twentieth century.

>>>> Cascabel

yes, you all seem to have me figured out........now mr.lasseter.....what is this "black"........are you saying im like a pot........because im black....!! MY PEOPLE HAVE STRUG............*cough...sorry just came right out...all automatic like........

Aye....., and like any good pyrate, you have a black heart !!! ........ of course, you have an unfair advantage over the rest of us. We have to work at it, you come by it natural-like !! ;)

>>>>> Cascabel

I have been approached to sell these fire arms by the manufacturer and I know nothing about them.

They seem to be a bit nicer then was is common for sale most places. I love the shorter stockier blunderbuss that they have but I have never held one in hand.

Any exp with these? ANy info at all?

http://www.osvaldogatto.com:80/

I have heard of the company, but have not seen any of their products "in the flesh". Did they send you a sample to examine ?

>>>>> Cascabel

aha! i knew this was a topic somewhere...

hey folks, i ran across some prints that were done by a french artist named Du Monceau i think around 1730-40, maybe a bit later. Take a look at the two drawings below. While not cold weather gear per se, these are novascotian fishermen who know a hell of a lot about it.

Lets look at the fellow in the middle. Other than what looks like wooden shoes or square toed leather- is he wearing leg coverings of some sort?

Now here is the one i'm drooling over.

First, yes they are standing in barrels. According to the accompanied text to keep them clean and allows them to keep their balance onboard. OK,OK, on to the clothing....

the guy in the middle obviously has an apron over his clothing so we lose a lot of detail. How about his hat though- the beginnings of the gloucester fisherman's hat? Does anyone have any info on the history of them. I have a hat blank just waiting for a revelation. Onto the fellow on the right... a solid front and permanent hooded capote of some sort?

It appears that the barrels, or half-barrels are securely tied down also. A good idea when both hands are occupied on a rocking ship !!!

>>>> Cascabel

(AP) Maybe pirates took the bronze ship's cannon from the front of a Charleston store.

The Post and Courier of Charleston reported Tuesday the owner of Galleons Lost reported someone took the 18th century cannon last week.

Owner Rich Mutschler said he put the gun out front about 9 a.m. Friday and it was gone 90 minutes later. Mutschler says he had put the cannon in front of the store for weeks and no one bothered it.

Mutschler says the gun could be fired.

It is three feet long and weighs about 250 pounds. It's valued at $10,000.

Kinda makes you wonder about the intelligence of somebody that would put something outside that could be tossed into the back of a pick-up by a couple of guys very quickly, especially something that valuable !!!

>>>>> Cascabel

I have always wondered if some of these laws are written so as to be deliberately vague so that they can be left open to interpretation by law enforcement officers and judges based on individual circumstances, or if it is a typical case of legislators writing poorly conceived and badly worded laws about subjects they know absolutely nothing about, and refusing to consult with people that actually know something about the subject in question. Once it is signed into law, it is usually the innocent and well-intentioned people that suffer for it. It happens all the time here in the U.S. also......

>>>>>> Cascabel

This is response to Beowoulf...

There is no division between the two groups and no divisiveness. I really can't emphasize this enough. When Spike and BiBs were in charge, yes, animosity, but purely for business reasons that I won't go into here. Certainly not now with Fayma and the Friends of the Fort running the FTPI. In fact, Fayma is an officer in the Conch Republic Navy. Finbar made her a Lieutenant this past year. He certainly doesn't bestow such honors on people who are his enemies.

There is a space issue and always has been. The fort only has so much space. Although some campers cancelled at the last minute, there was initial concern that all the campers wouldn't fit into the fort, let alone vendors. Additionally. the mission of the fort is to represent living history. Many of PiP's events don't even remotely fit into that mission and neither do many of the vendors. Even the tryal of Anne and Mary isn't truly historical, not with Tizzy in it (and I wouldn't trade Cascabel's comic relief ever for the historical version).

PiP is once again in a high growth mode, i.e., the non-period events. Next year, the grounds will be twice the size that it was this year with more events and activities geared to the community. We only had 10 weeks this year to get the site together, given the late start on the permitting with the city. I can't explain all the new additions as they are in process, but they certainly wouldn't fit into the fort, either in terms of space or in terms of philosophy.

No one blames the fort or FTPI for gravitating more toward period representations. I camped there myself for several years and loved it. But PiP serves many masters, and its first obligation is to the city organizations that support it, including the historical society, the Mowhawk and Ingham, the visitor's bureau, the hotels the in-town venues and the City of Key West who issued all the permits this year for the Annex.

I personally look forward to another year of working with the FTPI team and PiP to make them both even more amazing this year. Let's just live with the fact that they are different and distinct. They have different missions, different bosses and different business models. But that doesn't mean they aren't on friendly terms or don't take advantage of the synergies available to them whenever possible

During this past year, Fayma and Julie were in constant, sometimes daily communication. I was in on many of them. It's easy to assume that there is no coordination, but none of you (outside of Sterling, Haunting Lily, Fayma, Diosa and myself on this board - and forgive me if I missed someone) are in on the day-to-day of what goes on with these events. There is plenty of communication, coordination and sharing of information and resources.

There are always vendors who are unhappy with their time there. It happens every year. Ask Diosa. We used to vend. We used to hear the griping. I spoke to many vendors at the Annex who were absolutely thrilled with their time there. I heard several say how much they love coming down to PiP and FTPI because they are able to break even on a vacation in Key West. They don't even care if they make money since they can fill an empty space in their vending calendar with a usually warm visit to the tropics.

To return to the initial point - there is no animosity here. We make due with the conditions as they arise. We adapt as the requirements of the city and the fort change. We alter our marketing and advertising to meet the stringent requirements of grants (you'd be surprised what these are), and we try to put on the best respective festivals we can.

To put it out there for others that we are dysfunctional or have a feud going on is so far from the truth that it is laughable at best. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and judge what has been happening for years to keep these events going without any funding, without any support at times and with the "peanut gallery" griping about why we can't have one big love fest for pirates.

I could tell stories here that would shock you about how close this thing comes every year to falling by the wayside. But people like Fayma, Julie, Haunting Lily, Diosa and I do this because we love Key West and we love our friends to come down to our neck of the woods and play pirate with us. Countless times we have simply willed these two events into existence at the last minute just so everyone can come down and have some fun in the sun.

I hope we can all move on and quit psychoanalyzing everything from the grandstands. It does nothing to improve FTPI or PiP. If anything, it makes us wonder why we do all this hard work in the first place. It is at best a thankless job. If you want to truly help us improve these events, volunteer to join the groups planning them and work with us throughout the year. We could sure use the help and it could be a real eye opener for you. I know it was for me.

Well said, Suh !!!!

>>>>> Cascabel

I believe it was Marathon. It was there one weekend and Key West the next. Cascabel would be one of the experts on that - it was what, 20 years ago now? It's been Key West exclusive 11 years, going on 12. I've been since 2002, so even I'm a relative newcomer, eh Cascabel?

My very first PiP was 1998. That year it was hosted on the grounds of the Buccaneer Resort in Marathon for the first part of the week, and then moved to the park at Higgs Beach in Key West for the remainder of the event. The event didn't happen at all one year, (I think it was 1999).

In my early years at the event, we had a great many more sponsors supporting it, and many of us were assigned to put in appearances at the sponsor's locations. Many of the hotels supported us generously with rooms for the participants in those years. We had activities and appearances all over Key West in those days. One of my favorites was at the Mel Fisher Museum, which always had lots of tourists and kids in attendance. The Schooner Wharf bar was a great supporter and the surrounding waterfront area was always full of pirates and vendors with music and other piratical shenannigans.

Several of the local sailing vessels besides the schooner Wolf wanted pirates on board for their sails. We would fire on each other as we passed to entertain the paying passengers. Often the vessels had pirate musicians on board also.

I was not aware of the bit about Raven taking down the signs after she got fired. Amazing what you can find out years later !! Got any more info about that ?

>>>>> Cascabel

Braze and myself got into town late last night......

>>>> Cascabel

We'll have to meet up in the next day or so! Where the heck are ya? :)

We can catch up with you at the end of hurricane season party......

>>>>> Cascabel

Braze and myself got into town late last night......

>>>> Cascabel

Oh Arthur, that was just wrong.... funny, but wrong!

I tried, but I just couldn't resist....... Bad pyrate !!!! Not PC.... :lol:

>>>>> Cascabel

My Chinese is a bit rusty, but I think it says something like "No, we not see your cat. Please stop asking...... You want fried rice with order ?"

>>>>> Cascabel

It's a pizza paddle, Cascabel. Thought you would have recognized it.

As used by Italian pirates, no doubt !!!! ;)

>>>>> Cascabel

What is the flat thing with the handle ??

>>>> Cascabel

Because there is no.... "What did you wear for Halloween" so I'll post this here......

Well...... this year, I dressed as......

what else.....

but a Pyrate.....

Well it wasn't a very authentic Pyrate outfit .....

But it is kinda scary......

That's sho 'nuff scary !!!!!!!!!! :lol:

>>>>> Cascabel

Welcome aboard, sit ye down, and enjoy the company. Lots of good info available here, and it's all free of charge !!!!

Remember, the only dumb questions are the ones that are not asked....

>>>> Cascabel