Gentleman of Fortune

I don't think that the average Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Gamer (MMORPG) will give a hoot about historical accuracy or knowledge. I am guessing that, fairly quickly, POTBS will devolve into a huge debacle that most online games decend into. I have no idea what the number of pirate ships vs the number of Navy and Merchant ships was during the GAoP, but can you imagine what its going to be like when you have 5000 pirate ships (some swarming in "Clans" of hundreds) plying the caribbean at the same time? I am curious as to how having an in-depth knowledge of: * The Age of Saila * The Age of Fighting Sail * The Age of Buccaneers * The Golden Age of Piracy * The English Reformation * The Age of Louis XIV * The Age of Colonization * The Industrial Revolution * The Age of Revolution * The French Revolution * The American Revolution * The Napoleonic Age * The Agricultural Revolution or * War * Politics * Culture * The Social World * Economics * Science * Technology * Agriculture * Industry * Philosophy * Literature will help anyone sucessfully sail a ship in an MMORPG type of game. I am not so sure that the 13 year old Korean kids with T1 lines are going to give a crap about Agriculture in 1703. I hate to pee in the cherios, but, except for possibly giving you a better shot at getting a beta key, I feel that this will be an excercise in futility. Better yet, you might just include links on the 101 site to other sites on the net that already have the information. GoF

................good luck. GoF

Ohhhh come on guys, this ain't a George Lucas production, don't be so hard on em. Thought it was whimsical, and shows potential. Good luck and post em' when you make em'. GoF

Ok... how bout an after action report? And post pics, or links to pics if you got em! GoF

Ok... someone post pics of the event.... good or bad! and for the record, if I gotta look at fantasy pirates, they might as well be in stilletos and thongs. GoF

bump

Cool...no? 1673 Eidt: Big ol' wheel of cheese and bread Wooden bound cask interesting trapazoidal chest large coil of rope? Cool mug for drinkin' Canvas wrapped? Mabe its some sort of textiles...

Maybe we should keep it here though... as the other conversation is about encampment. wooden bound cask... on land. yet another, used in camp by army soldiers. Let the games begin. Greg

Are you going to stick to one forum name from now on or what? Now just relax a bit, take a good sip o' home brew and don't get your dander up. The bottom line for me is that, as said in an earlier post, you can make the argument that a percentage of beer and water was put into the largest of cask, iron bound, for certain long range voyages, but not all of it. If your beer making book collection covers all of 17th/18th century storage containers, than I would certainly enjoy seeing period refrences to iron bound smaller casks. Thats funny, using your own refrences, not ALL of the beer was ordered in iron bound casks... And its only for the LONG voyages that 1/2 -3/4 of the beer is even ordered in iron bound casks. The must have had a slew of idiot apprentices putting beer into something, as I would imagine that they counted on the 1/4-1/2 of the beer in wooden casks to last longer than a week....no? I read what you have written, but I don't think my earlier recap has changed. But anyway, its a moot point. A hogshead is a hell of a lot of beer (as you said), and no one wants to lug one around... which just leaves us with the smaller, easier to manage casks in the pin to kilderkin range. I have not found any refrence to these sizes being bound with iron. The refrences that I have found all point to just the largest of casks in iron. But if you have them, please share. So, unless I have a misunderstanding with what authenticity is, an iron bound firkin aint' authentic for GAoP. We already have to "accept" that some things used in our modern interpretation of GAoP sailors are not correct because there are no reasonable facsimiles. We already have to make exceptions for a lot of things .... stockings pop into mind, and buckles too. So what I think I hear you saying is "small casks that are bound with iron aren't authentic for GAoP, but at this point, there is no work around" ? I can deal with that, but at the same time, I am trying to figure out how to replace the iron bands on my freakin firkin. ahhh now why did you have to go and say that? You know better than that.... Right? If we follow that logic, than we might as well buy a Simplicity pattern and make no attempt at authenticity at all. That is the same argument that the fantasy crowd uses.... The "your DNA ain't 18th century, so why bother with any authenticity as you can never be "right" anyway". Use what you want.... I don't care. We all have things that are near and dear, whether its patterns, shoes, or Beer Casks. Hell, paint an igloo cooler brown and put banding iron around it if It tickles your fancy.... I can only be responsible for me and my kit, and lend advise when asked. To me, authenticity is not a buffet table where I take what I like and leave the rest. If I have something that I can't prove or know is wrong, it gnaws at me until I get it fixed. Sometimes I just avoid sticky wickets altogether so as I don't get stuck. If an onion bottle or bellermarine jug are authentic and will hold water/beer/wine that is where I will go. Greg

I found the refrence... And without going into a huge recap, we have discussed the iron/wood bound hoop thing before... I bumped the conversation up so check it out under GAOP encampment

Bump greg

Captain Bob.... I was thinking the same thing... i think. I wanted to try to re-hoop my wooden barrels with wood. If I am not mistaken... I think it was willow. I will check. Greg

bump....

Don't you just love paradigm shifts? While I agree that there is various skill levels in the abilities of period artist, I am not one to so swiftly disregard the pictorial record. There are period caricatures and exaggerations to make specific points, but when more than a few artist depict clothing items in a similar way, we can't just ingnore the evidence because it doesn't fit into our view. Is there a huge construction difference between the Read and Bonny, Blackbeard, and Guyacil pictures depiction of trousers? Greg

The picture from my website that you have posted of the two guys... the handsome figure on the left is wearing peticoat breeches.... I know because its me and I made the breeches. Maybe not as volumnous as some would like for peticoat breeches, but that was all the material I had to work with... The figure on the right, Bloody Davy Cash... is wearing the long version of the trousers. As far as trousers in general go... again, with the GAoP we see things that either had not existed before (or at least were not popular contemporarily) come in to fashion and develop during the GAoP. Slops/trousers are one of these items. We go from closed knee breeches and petiticoat breeches in 1650ish to long trousers being worn (like the Woodes Rodgers Guyacil picture) at least by 1712. My guess is that they got from point A (breeches) to point E (long slop trousers) with several stops along the way. We know that petitcoat breeches were popular for Early GAoP, and we have documentation from Foxe of Open Kneed' breeches, and pictorial evidence of long trousers. It would be hard for me to believe that they went to a long trousers before the development of a short slop (which we have evidence of from around 1730). I would say short slops would be logical... but that might not be enough evidence for some. Can't go wrong with the long versions though as we do have lots of documentation on those... and I think that they look cooler. Greg

Silent.... Is it safe to assume that you want to portray a GAoP pirate? If so, a "Captain" or "regular" sailor? Keep asking questions... we'll get there together. Greg

I think THIS is what you are looking for.... Greg

Could it be semantics? Trousers/Slops are relatively new to the scene in the in garment history and come in to play during the GAoP, and sailors appear to be early adopter. Even today we don't really have a distinctive word for the short or long "slops". We know that "slops" meant, at the time of GAoP, the suit of clothing that sailors wore. For what we know as the trousers/shorts, I have seen slops, slop hose, sailor's breeches etc. What exactly is this sailor wearing, second from left? Open leg breeches? Slops? (this is Foxe's 1700 west indian traders map picture) Greg

wow... that will certainly open the flood gates......... There are already a few threads here at the pub that discuss both whether boots are appropriate, and where to get them. I would say that next to authenticity in general, boots are one of the most hotly debated in the Pirate community. So do a search for "boots" in the pub search and you should get enough reading material for at least 3 hours. And There are probably enough boot wearers here at the pub that have tried various makers and could make some recomendations Good Luck! Greg aka GoF

Welcome aboard Young Pirate! Good question, and Black Foot has started you in the right direction... I'll add my two cents though. If you have searched the threads at the pub, or any other re-enacting related sites, you will find that their are different approaches. You used the term "re-enacting" though, and that means different things to different people, so we should probably try to get on the same sheet of music first. To "generalize", here are the basic types of pirate re-enactors (though, this could apply to all re-enactors, not just pirate) and my estimate as to the percentages that they make up the re-enacting community. 1) Good time, Pirate "inspired" (70%) These are the folks that are interested in pirates, and use it as an escape from their everyday life. They are more concerned with the "Spirit" of piracy than the mundane minutia, and base their kits off of what they would have worn if they were a pirate (sometimes with, but mostly without historical evidence) 2) Entertainers (10%) These are the folks that usually (but not always) derive some sort of compensation for appearing in their pirate costumes and providing a service to the viewing public. They can be musicians, actors, roll players, or imitators. They base their kit off of either what the public perceives a pirate should be, or a famous character from fiction (Hollywood, literature, etc). In some instances, their car payment/tuition bill is dependent on getting the next gig, so meeting the needs of the public and the hiring agency takes precedent over historical accuracy. 3) Authentic Living Historians. (5%) These are the folks that strive (not necessarily attain) the appearance and actions of historical pirates. Documentation is their watchword and they tend to be obsessive about details. 4) Somewhere in between (15%) These may be folks with multiple kits that do it authentically when they have a chance, and for fun at other times, or someone that started in one group, and is moving into another group. Why is all this important? With lots of different groups out there, you want to find one that is the best fit for your personality and interest. If like to entertain and play a mean concertina, you might think about finding a group that entertains the public. If you like the minutia of the details, I suggest striving to find a group that has that as a goal as well. The other things to consider are Your age: if you are under 18, you may need to participate with one of your parents, as some groups own and operate firearms and swords. Liability is not a fun thing when it involves someone elses minor. Your location: No sense in joining a fantastic pirate chantey singing group in LA if you live in Maine. Financial resources: Even in the Fantasy pirate circles, kit/gear cost money. I don't think money precludes you from doing it authentically, as you can make some of your own gear. But if you don't have a lot of money, it may help to join a group that is eager to take on new folks and can loan stuff out to you until you get your own. Now that you have a general idea of what kind of groups are out there, the next step would be finding a group in your area. Blackfoot posted links to the No Quarter Given (NQG) site, and there are some listed here. I would call/e-mail some in your area and ask them about their groups philosophy and what events they attend. With the POTC movie coming out soon, and summer upon us, there should be a lot of things going on. Check out the raids section here at the pub or the events section at NQG. 95% of the events listed will be for fun/faire/festival kind of events where authenticity is not an issue. But if you get to go, talk to as many different groups as you can. I posted a list of MY top 10 pirate kit items in either the Captain Twill section or the Plunder section. I would give that a read to get an idea of what you need. Also, don't hesitate to ask any question that you have here, or on other pirate sites. Feel free to stop by my pirate website (there is a link in my signature below). Good luck and we look forward to following your progress! Greg aka Gentleman of Fortune

Ace Wow... you really got it down. Cudos to all your efforts. You know I am not a Sparrow fan, but I support what you are doing as it certainly fills a niche. Just curious though, to me, your Sparrow kit looks spot on, but what do you think needs improvement? Also, what do you think is the hardest part of the Sparrow "kit"? Greg aka GoF

All great suggestions. If you google "natural dyes" you might find some suggestions if you want a color other than beige/brown. Linen seems to be a little more resistive to dyes than cotton... just a heads up. Also, if you have those ultra white stockings, you might want to put them in the same bath (tea/coffee) to tone them down. Good luck, and post picutures. greg

Sorry for the long absence.... Ankle broke, moved house, no phone and no DSL now I am back visiting the folks till August. Anyway. How long did it take. Good question. I probably did everything the hard way, but excluding pattern drafting. Probably 40 hours. I have never undertaken a large project like this and it was an education to say the least. When I get back home, I am going to start another using Kass' Pattern and I am expecting to do it in much less time. The really time consuming part is all the freakin button holes. I probably did 12 as practice on pocket flaps.... the button holes took me about 30 minutes each (on average). And GAOP clothes have TONS of button holes. The trick is taking it in little bites at a time... like eating an elephant. Greg

As somone who has sold T-shirts as well.... I would skip the sm, med, and large and Just go for the XL and XXL. I got stuck once with a box full of small and med shirts once... Besides, on e-bay, if someone likes a shirt but doesn't see their size, they will PM you to see if you have their size. Good luck Greg

I second Pirate Kings site for an Archeologist view of pirate history. His site is pretty graphic intensive too (at least it was under the moniker of "pirates cove" and I link to his site on my own.... (though he has yet to return the favor ) But my site, http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com , almost strickly deals with the GAoP in a "living History"sense. That is, it deals with clothing, equipment, and weapons (and a little bit of sailing vessels) used by pirates during the 1680ish-1725ish timeframe. So my site is not good for finding out Blackbeard's Birthday or Anne Bonney's favorite color. "Most" pirate sites are re-hases of each other, which shares the same info as 90% of the piracy books out there. With books, start with Johnson's History of Pirates, that will cover most of the bases for what you want to know about the major pirate personalities. greg aka gof