sutlerjon Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Richard Petty Oh, yeah, "I stink, therefore I yam, whatta yam" - some old philosopher and Popeye the Sailor. Self Promoter Jim Pirate Gear oldsutlerjohn.biz American Civil War oldsutlerjohn.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Which brings us to the question: what is thought?What is consciousness? Are we the sum of the conscious thought? What about pre-conscious and sub-conscious thought? How is it possible that we can we think about our thoughts? (Are you sure you're not Phil in disguise? And where the hell is blackjohn? This is getting good...) Actually, my query was just to the nature of thought. If you want to throw consciousness into the discussion, then we really do need to move this to another thread before philosophic discourse is thrown out as a Petty Annoyance, let alone a corrupting influence on the youth. You are always thinking, no matter who you are. Or, perhaps stated more correctly, thoughts are always flowing through your consciousness. You can control some of these thoughts. The ones you cannot control, you can control your thoughts about those thoughts. From where do these floating thoughts originate? Are these thoughts that float through one's consciousness themselves conscious, the stuff of consciousness, or something else altogether? Is emotion thought? Enquiring minds want to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 Yes, I am aware that you can't really not think about anything. That's why I always love it in movies where they are trying to hypnotize someone, and the first thing they say is "Empty your mind." Like that's actually possible. So, to throw another quandary into the mix, what does it mean when you dream you are dreaming? Ooo, which brings me to another petty annoyance. Don't you hate it when you get awakened right in the middle of a good dream? ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) So, to throw another quandary into the mix, what does it mean when you dream you are dreaming? The other night I dreamt I was watching a movie. When the movie stopped so did the dream, then both started again. I guess that's what they call a nocturnal intermission. Edited March 21, 2009 by Quartermaster James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Actually, my query was just to the nature of thought. If you want to throw consciousness into the discussion, then we really do need to move this to another thread before philosophic discourse is thrown out as a Petty Annoyance For the record, I did offer to move all this out of the petty annoyances thread to the thread's author. Folks, feel free to continue listing your annoyances if you enjoy doing so. I'm really not trying to hijack this thread...honest. Consciousness is composed of the thoughts we think. (It's the thoughts we think we think. The other thoughts are mostly inaccessible except when they appear in consciousness or during sleep or pre-sleep. Even those thought can only be recalled later, so they are biased by the conscious process. Whatever the conscious process is composed of. ) So you'd be hard-pressed to separate thoughts from consciousness. (Consciousness and subconsciouness fascinate me. Every time I have to do a paper for a Psych class, I try to turn it into a paper on such topics. I've done three of them now.) You are always thinking, no matter who you are. Or, perhaps stated more correctly, thoughts are always flowing through your consciousness. You can control some of these thoughts. The ones you cannot control, you can control your thoughts about those thoughts. From where do these floating thoughts originate? Are these thoughts that float through one's consciousness themselves conscious, the stuff of consciousness, or something else altogether? Is emotion thought? I believe thoughts are always streaming and some of them enter consciousness and some don't. (I reserve the right to change that belief.) Now emotion! You love to open new cans of worms, don't you? The most fascinating thing I have learned about emotion is from Aron and Dutton's famous mis-attribution of emotion experiment on the Capilano Extension Bridge. Basically what happened was they had an attractive woman on the bridge asking guys questions for a psychological experiment. At the end of the Q&A, she gave them her phone number and invited them to call. She did the same thing on a regular, small bridge. At the end of it, the guys on the extension bridge were more likely to call her back by a huge margin, suggesting they were looking for a date. This whole thing led Aron & Dutton to explain that they mis-attributed the fear they felt at being on the high bridge as arousal. From this the whole idea that you don't have an emotion until you have a thought emerged. So, in this model, emotions emerge because of thoughts. Several other experiments have been done since that support this idea. So emotions may or may not be thoughts, but they are apparently preceded by them if this is true. (There's all kinds of 'if's' in psychology. ) Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Petty Annoyance.... People who hijack threads to talk about something I don't understand! That rates right up there with people who snap gum, or carry on loud conversations in the library. ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 LOL I was thinking of posting something similar ...and who told Mission NOT to start a new thread? When you go to a restaurant and they sit you right next to the only other party there. Is there something in Thai society that required that I be piratically in the other party. I found myself eavesdropping on a conversation because I was about 2 feet from the next table! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Bess Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Being sent to out to sit in the audience for *The View* becasue there were not enough legit butts in the seats. Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Being sent to out to sit in the audience for *The View* becasue there were not enough legit butts in the seats. Such bravery in the face of intellectual peril! Did I mention you were my hero? Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I turned the View off this morning. Had I known ther was a valid reason to watch (that being Iron Bess) I would have kept an eye on the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Bess Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I turned the View off this morning. Had I known ther was a valid reason to watch (that being Iron Bess) I would have kept an eye on the audience. No, no... that was week before last. While they were here on the lot. Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Bess Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Being sent to out to sit in the audience for *The View* becasue there were not enough legit butts in the seats. Such bravery in the face of intellectual peril! Did I mention you were my hero? Well... I did manage to sleep with my eyes open. Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) So, in this model, emotions emerge because of thoughts. So what is it that happens when one is startled? Emotion? Thought? Certainly there wasn't time to think? Edited March 23, 2009 by Quartermaster James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think this would come under the category of reaction. And is reaction thought or emotion? ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) I turned the View off this morning. Had I known ther was a valid reason to watch (that being Iron Bess) I would have kept an eye on the audience.No, no... that was week before last. While they were here on the lot. Well then I am glad that I did not "stay tuned". Edited March 24, 2009 by Silkie McDonough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I think this would come under the category of reaction. And is reaction thought or emotion? Ransom is on to it. First there is the instinctual response that any animal has when something occurs (a loud noise, for example. BTW, we are only naturally afraid of two things based on research with newborns - loud noises and falling. Every other fear is essentially learned according to this research. But I digress...) After the "startling" occurs, we think about how to respond - not the sort of drawn out thinking that happens when you're trying to decide what model of car to buy, but rapid, split second processing that is essentially sub- or unconscious - and the emotion is generated according to this theory. No less than William James framed the question of how emotion comes about in terms of the mental processes that produce emotions when we are startled by a bear. The startling is an instinctual, not a cognitive process. (Research suggests many such instinctual responses occur either without the assistance of the brain or at the lower levels of it which we share with animals.) Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Bess Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (Research suggests many such instinctual responses occur either without the assistance of the brain or at the lower levels of it which we share with animals.) OOooooooh..... Well that explain allot! Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (Research suggests many such instinctual responses occur either without the assistance of the brain or at the lower levels of it which we share with animals.) OOooooooh..... Well that explain allot! One of my books suggests that instinctive responses never get farther than the spinal chord. If I remember it rightly, they were talking specifically about why you draw your hand back so quickly from a hot stove burner. Sort of like a computer network, the sensation is routed right from the point of contact to the spinal chord and back to the muscles required to move your arm without ever hitting the brain. It does get to the brain after that, though. The brain, as near as can be discerned at this point in time, is composed of several levels, some of which are quite 'old' in the development of humanity. Many of these we share with many animals that have some higher functions. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Bess Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (Research suggests many such instinctual responses occur either without the assistance of the brain or at the lower levels of it which we share with animals.) OOooooooh..... Well that explain allot! One of my books suggests that instinctive responses never get farther than the spinal chord. If I remember it rightly, they were talking specifically about why you draw your hand back so quickly from a hot stove burner. Sort of like a computer network, the sensation is routed right from the point of contact to the spinal chord and back to the muscles required to move your arm without ever hitting the brain. It does get to the brain after that, though. The brain, as near as can be discerned at this point in time, is composed of several levels, some of which are quite 'old' in the development of humanity. Many of these we share with many animals that have some higher functions. I meant.... it explains allot about what goes on around here. Well, you may not realize it but your looking at the remains of what was once a very handsome woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 What annoys me .....is how the brain sometimes it doesn't work quick enough... Two examples.... (This one only applies to people on the West Coast) You're sitting watching television or something, when the cat's eyes bug out, it's fur fluffs up, and it sinks it's claws into the floor.... you comment that the last time it did that was right before an .... then the earthquake hits..... You're whittling something with an exacto-knife, there is a little shaving of wood on the tip of the blade that you want to flick off.... But then you quickly decide that flicking off the sliver of wood will cut your finger, so you tell your brain to stop that action.... BUT NO.... you watch as you cut your finger, even though you told your brain to stop because you would cut open your finger...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 What annoys me .....is how the brain sometimes it doesn't work quick enough... Two examples.... (This one only applies to people on the West Coast) You're sitting watching television or something, when the cat's eyes bug out, it's fur fluffs up, and it sinks it's claws into the floor.... you comment that the last time it did that was right before an .... then the earthquake hits..... Which begs the question, are people who "sense" things quicker than the rest of us more primitive, or more evolved? Or can they tap into their primitive side easier than those who have slower reactions to things? Petty annoyance: People who "claim" to be ultra-aware of spirits/ghosts and "vibes" from the beyond, when you know it's all a sham. (This doesn't mean you, Siren. We all know you are legit!) ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutlerjon Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Lori Petty Is my adverse reaction to her movie "Tank Girl" like withdrawing my hand from a hot stove, or do I just think it's junk? Why are some of the lower levels of brain function no higher than the gutter on my street? Self Promoter Jim Pirate Gear oldsutlerjohn.biz American Civil War oldsutlerjohn.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Which begs the question, are people who "sense" things quicker than the rest of us more primitive, or more evolved? Or can they tap into their primitive side easier than those who have slower reactions to things? There are some people who say that this is the upper brain functioning getting in the way of the lower brain functioning. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) Did I mention that I dislike people who insist on causing drama! Edited March 25, 2009 by Silkie McDonough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 No offense, Silkie, really, and this applies to everyone posting here. This is a place for general petty annoyances, not for personal statements. I want to keep everything here light, fun and completely aboveboard. I hope you understand. ...schooners, islands, and maroons and buccaneers and buried gold... You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott. "Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow Found in the Ruins — Unique Jewelry Found in the Ruins — Personal Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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