Commodore Swab

Well said

The Espignol in action at Fisherman's Village Pirate Fest

Permits: Again, most laws regarding protection of UCH are recent- just because it was legal 20 years ago, does that make it more or less right? Just because it's legal now, does that mean there shouldn't be a law against it? Congress makes a life out making laws, I doubt they'd agree. To be honest? I think the only reason Florida divides, allocates, and basically sells permits is because

1) they've got people beating down their doors for them and

2) the State of Florida (for a number of ecomonic reasons) can't begin to afford to do it all themselves. And Swab-it's rediculously attrocious that they have a confession and didn't do anything. You'd think if somebody (federal or state) has the balls to outlaw it, they'd have the balls to enforce it. Again, economics, but it seems the State is unwilling to turn people off that way (such as would-be hunters).

He's basically poo-pooing the Sunken Military Craft Act (2005) bc it (by extension/reciprocal relations) protects the military craft of other nations who are willing to protect our craft in their jurisdictional waters. This was a law that any red-blooded American with any sensibility toward the military will recognize as an attempt to protect their final resting places. And he's chewing it out as "protecting modern naval equipment" for military development purposes, all because it prevents him from taking (and keeping) the Black Swan/Mercedes treasure. They haven't proven for certain that it wasn't the Mercedes which was a Spanish naval ship (regardless of what it was doing there). Classic hamstringing of the argument, all because of money, faulting the whole law because he can't make the loophole fit his case. And this isn't the least of the philosophical smokescreens.

Here's what I'm willing to concede: private salvage with (as Swab mentioned) a creditable archaeologist onboard calling the shots. Museums get first dibs on artifacts that can be proven to have been excavated by processes that are documentable and ethical (this varies- states will likely have to set their own standards) and all artifacts, if split among museums (I think this might actually help, as multiple museums can share access to a collection) would be accessioned according to strict practices that would allow tracking ownership of the artifacts. That way, if new technology develops and someone wants/needs to test an entire collection, they can track all of it.

It is very difficult, very time consuming, and very expensive to get a permit in FL with the various stages that you must go thru. I know of 2 people that have been trying to get permits for the past decade.

Long story short nobody cared about the ship until treasure was found. Nearly ALL cargo traversing has some sort of military support and can be tied in that way. I was slightly surprised you didn't bring up the stolen artwork that was also suposed to be returned.

Are you saying for example that the coins that were so far recovered from the Mercedes ALL need to be tracked in case someone in the future wants to test the entire collection? Considering 17 tons of coins and considering they were all 8 reales at 1 oz each thats roughly 600,000 coins alone to keep track of!

Well almost back to flash guards . . .

I have seen both of these issuse and my "solution" since there are so many experts out there that all know exactly how to be safe is that when they are having their weapon inspected a verbal rundown of how they shoot becomes part of the inspection. This allows everyone to be on the same page so to say and also identify possible issues, simple things like finding out if they typically shoot with wadding or prime then load etc etc. As far as being on the same page for a battle my thoughts are to have a small number say 4-6 people that know whats going on. The rest of the shooters are assigned to these 4-6 people and shoot when they do.

I will try to find the documentation I have on flash guards and get back to you with it. I know where it is, but I need to look it up, and there is no internet there.

These might help . . .

It is a one of a kind, there is not another one like it anywhere.

A brief discription is walnut stock, bronze barrel, brass lock plate. One of the most identifying features is that the ramrod thimble is part of the triggerguard.

While on the topic of rules we have been working on a set of rules more geared towards pirate festivals where people may arrive and desire to fire with us. We have tried to take a little from the NPS and a little from common sense and gear it all towards putting on a show with safety formost.

Small Arms Black Powder

No weapons may contain black powder outside of the designated demonstration area.

We request that anyone not approved to fire remove the flint from his or her weapon.

For those interested in participating in any of the event’s black powder demonstrations, we

have some guidelines and safety rules that must be adhered to! Each day before the event

opens to the public, your weapons must be safety inspected. Those shooting with us for the

first time will be asked for a verbal description explaining how you fire your weapon.

The safety inspection will check for,

1. Loose or damaged pieces on the weapon

2. Smooth lock operation

3. Secure half cock or safety (flintlocks, flint must not touch the frizzen on half cock)

4. Obstructed touch hole (percussion, cap must seat properly on undamaged nipple)

5. Clean barrel

6. Good Spark

7. Flint does not touch the frizzen on half cock

Weapons that successfully pass will be tagged for use that day.

Safety is our primary concern. This is a public demonstration, so extra care must be taken.

Demonstrating an unreliable weapon is something we wish to avoid. For this reason, if you have

an unreliable or damaged weapon, please do not attempt to fire it.

Firing rules

Black powder will be provided rolled in cartridges sized correctly for your weapon (help rolling

cartridges is always appreciated)

All black powder will be locked up under the gun masters control and redistributed before the

demonstration

As a guideline FFF under 65 caliber FF over 65 caliber

Priming Flasks: Only approved priming flasks will be allowed

 A positive stop control is mandatory

 No more than 1 oz. of black powder regardless of size

 No nozzles larger than 20 grains allowed

Weapon Guidelines and Rules

Page

Firing rules

All black powder weapons will be loaded from cartridges

All cartridges will be stored in an approved cartridge box (a limited number of “loaner”

cartridge boxes will be provided)

 Cartridge boxes must be made of leather

 Cartridge boxes must close and be held shut

 Metal cartridge boxes will not be allowed

 No ramrods will be allowed

 No wadding will be allowed

 No original weapons will be allowed to fire

Each participant may hold two weapons during a demonstration, a primary and secondary piece

Secondary pieces will only be used if the primary fails (i.e. cracked flint, misfires, ect)

Any piece misfiring twice in a row will be pulled from the line and inspected after the

demonstration.

If your weapon fails after two attempts to fire, shout out “misfire“ and keep the barrel above

shoulder height at 45 degrees or greater until it is retrieved, you may then load your secondary

piece.

When surrendering your failed weapon,

 Remain facing forward

 Keep the barrel elevated

 Hand your weapon off from your right side.

 The person retrieving your weapon will dump the powder and keep it secure.

Money/funding shouldn't be an issue at all if one is dealing with treasure hunters and their finds. There is pleanty of money to be made off the wreck to provide for the preservation of the wreck. Look at what Treasure Hunter Are McKee was doing in the 1950's on his own, he opened up a museum and would physically take tourists to see his wreck. The problem with "funding" is that there is money to employ an archeologist working on a wreck but there is a lot of time spent looking where no archeologist is needed to be paid. The cost of employing an archeologist while simply looking for something is expensive. And most archeologists want to work full time and not only when a wreck is being dug on.

You remind me so much of my sister. She has become as much an idealist as she possibly can.

I have a freind who actually has a permit to recover from a wreck. There is an archeologist on the team, and everything recovered he is allowed to keep once it has been reported and preserved. This wreck has been picked over by treasure hunters for the last 50 years and is now burried 5-10 feet deep in soft sand so holes must be dug just to find the top of what might be left. Last season some pirates went out painted my friends permit numbers on their boat and started digging on "his" wreck. Nothing was done when we informed the sanctuary that they might be going out there, nothing was done when we told the sanctuary they were out there, and nothing was done when they admitted they had been out there. The pirates believe it or not turned in a report of their criminal activities and freely admitted to recovering hundreds of artifacts (true most were simply iron pins) including some gold, coins, pistol, and a couple other intestering items, remember this is what they reported finding. What is the end result? Nothing has hapened to them, the sanctuary has their reports and is trying to collect their artifacts. None of the information turned in has been given to my friend who could really use it (where they dug and found stuff). He will also more than likely not even get to even see any of the artifacts much less get to keep that came from his wreck that are rightfully his. When I say rightfully his I mean that the courts and sanctuary have both agreed that he keeps everything.

There is a reason they are called "treasure Hunters" and not treasure finders or treasure collectors. They will hunt and look for what others have failed to find or have forgotten about. Once its found bring in the archeologists and the govt to help preserve it for the public. However, one must be able to trust the other and so far the govt has a very long way to go to earn the trust of treasure hunters.

The subject of flash guards is not one of my favorites for discussion since they are comparatively speaking a relatively modern creation that was not utilized by anyone that I know of in the 17th and 18th century.

Im going to have to disagree and agree with you. I disagree completly that they are a modern creation as there are multiple snaphaunce locks that have a form of flash guard built into the pan. I also have documentation showing that flash guards were a required piece of equipment on several different Spanish muskets.

Im also going to have to agree with you that flash guards are used for people firing muskets shoulder to shoulder and considering that most pirate reinactors do not even own muskets and our firing is Not done in a military formation flsh guards are completly pointless.

Having said this when I build a musket to sell it will have a flash guard and frizzen stall as it might be used in its future in a firing line. A blunderbuss, pistol, knee gun, etc will not.

A good guideline for breech thickness is that the breech should be equal to the bore.

Actually there are a couple pirates (not sure if they are on the pub) that are closer than I am (marathon). However, to give you an idea of how the keys operate during a storm I just dropped my wife off at work (subway) and am watching the storm in a friend/employers house.

Is it Spanish culture because it was a Spanish owned ship? Is it Cuban culture since the ship was built in Cuba? Is it American culture since it sank off America? Is it South American culture because Spain had it crafted, stolen, or transported there? Is it Chinese Culture since some of it may have originated there? The point is it is everyones, but nobody cares about it until AFTER its found then everybody wants their piece of the pie, EVEN treasure hunters. Most recently emeralds were found that are over 40 miles from the Atocha and not enev from the same era (don't ask me how I know this) yet the Fishers are trying to claim them as having come from their wreck.

Lets look at the 1605 fleet that left Columbia and sank in a storm carrying a vast cargo making the Atocha look like pocket change. "Treasure Hunters" have been looking for these 4 ships for almost 40 years having not found them yet. There is no govt agency, no archeologists looking for them. What do you think will happen realistically when they find them?

You can quote as many people as you want but it breaks down into simple greed, greed on the part of EVERYBODY. Everybody is a pyrate trying to get what they can. Somewhere along that line there is the hope from all of us that we may learn something from our lost history and be able to share that history with everyone.

Todays "treasure" recovered from wrecks is far more then simply gold and silver. Iron pins, lead sheeting, and even pieces of wood that can be preserved are all treasure. My sister has a similar mindset to yours as she is an archeologist so I do not speak from a lack of knowledge. Its very easy to sit ashore and proclaim that mailboxes/blowers are totally destructive and should never be used to excavate a wreck. When you get your hands dirty its just possible you may learn to sing a very different tune. My personal gripe is when the govt. moves in and "collects" what has been found to preserve it and in fact puts it away behind closed doors often times not even knowing what they have collected. If they must collect artifacts how much is enough? 10 original identical coins, 100, 10,000? There are drawers upon drawers of coins alone in Tallahasse that the public will never see. Artifacts may be loaned to a museum like Pirate Soul in St Augustine that are mislabled and never researched. Case in point the last time I went thru the museum nobody had any idea there was a spyglass in a piece of conglomarate until I identified it for them, who knows if will be labled correctly in the future. Another piece on loan from the state showed a flintlock still holding the flint, you could make out the leather with the top jaw screw going THRU the leather not simply around the flint. This is another discovery that could change how we all clasp a flint in our guns making our reinacting more accurate.

Person A spends 5 years in the library looking for a wreck and invests his time and money looking another 10 years to find it. Person B steps in and says he cant do anything because he doesnt know what hes doing, anything that has been found person B confiscates. Seems to me person A is a researcher and a scholar and person B is a pyrate! Of course you know person A is the treasure hunter and person B is the state archeologist.

This need not be the case if archeologist can open their minds and at least listen to what treasure hunters have to say. Both need to work together. On EVERY permitted excavation site their is an archeologist on the team, these archeologist are often given a bad rep for the simple fact that they work with treasure hunters by other archeologists. True there are hunters working that are not permitted just look at the east coast (beach) of FL after a storm. We know there are artifacts that have washed up from the 1715 fleet that sank, why aren't archeologist digging there? Why do they allow people with detectors to look for items?

In a hostile inviroment like FL every year an artifact sits underwater it degrades.

I have heard stories of people finding a bronze cannon or a stash of coins, even ballast rockthat is secretly recovered and sold. IF the state and archeologists were more fair these things would not happen. Additional laws and restrictions will only make this worse, heres an example . . .

You are on a diving trip there recently was a storm and by chance you spot a glimmer of gold and it turns out to be an 8 reale worth say 3-5 thousand or 1500 as melted gold. You pick it up and tell someone you found it, uncle sam comes along and simply takes it. Would you leave gold down there? Now lets try a different approach you tell the govt you found it, they ask to see it and you show it to them they can either buy it from you or let you keep it. If its something special they pay alot for it, if its something common that they have already purchased many of then they let you keep it. You are ENCOURAGED to disclose your finds as you know you will be treated fairly for whats been found. Now there is a record of whats been found and where.

I've been hearing a rumor that this year there may be enforcement to the parks rules of requiring flash guards and frizzen stalls on all small arms. Is there anybody that can confirm this?

Might be time to look up the bores for punt guns

I feel that salvors should be given free reign to recover what they find. Now having said this the govt should be given the first chnce to purchase at fair market value anything recovered. Much of the "treasure" recovered are items that are already in a museum and of limited value, say something special is recovered the salvors should be able to reap the rewards of finding something special instead of having it simply taken from them by a govt. This means that instead of reporting what is found it will be hidden and sold when possible, this promotes treasure hunters to be dishonest (why work hard only to have it taken from you). Some might say treasure hunters rape wreck sites to only get the gold and silver. Typically after years sometimes decades of research is done to locate a wreck and then countless dollars are invested into actually locating what their research has discovered a wreck is finally located. To actually recover items from the wreck detailed records are kept noting when and where everything has been found.

When a salvor does find a wreck to recover his initial output many items are sold to the public this is true. Looking at the Atocha as a simple example there is a wonderful museum and countless people that have been able to visit Kew West have been able to return home remembering history with a small token.

They have it at redbox here, $1.29 and you can see it . . .

I recently got my shoes doe from loyalist, they take a little while but only require 50% up front giving you time to save up the rest while a pair of shoes is made just for you.

I ended up wearing them for the first time Saturday and Sunday, for being a heavier shoe they were comfortable and as the break in they are getting more and more comfortable. If you order from loyalist measure your foot then reduce the measurements around your foot by about a half CM to get a slightly better fit. I have ordered boots and shoes from them, the boots are a little loose so I end up wearing extra socks the shoes fit well as I reduced my measurements just a little.

In POTC had they employed more PC boots rather the hollywood option of bucket boots (they are called bucket boots for a reason) I doubt he would have had as many problems. Of course those would be more of a riding boot that could have been pulled up like a pair of waders, doesn't look that good on screen. If we take out the part about climbing ratlines in shoes, is there still a general belief that shoes would have been worn on board ship at all times?

Personal experience of mine has shown that proper PC boots do keep my feet nice and dry in the rain, puddles etc. Also while an authentic sole in a boot is very slippery on modern surfaces I have been afforded good traction on worn wet wood. Soles do wear down and would need to be replaced often. Regarding my experience with period shoes they are comfortable enough once broken in but I would rather go barefoot than wear them in the rain aboard ship. Good ventilation is a must when keeping shoes aboard ship as if they are put away wet or damp they will start to mold in hours. This is based on the fact that I live aboard a boat in South Florida.

In defense I would simply say that our feet are more tender, how many who are uncomfortable in the rigging are also uncomfortable on coral rock or gravel?

Just a thought, how much evidence is there for sailors wearing shoes while on board ship. It seems illogical to wear shoes on board ship while doing normal work. I will stick to my beliefs as follows . . .

While working on board ship sailors/pirates would have been barefoot, exceptions would be officers, or sailors soldiers who might have had footwear as part of their uniform.

While ashore/in town Sailors/Pirates would have done their best to protect their feet wearing whatever they could. If they had shoes they were most definatly worn over boots.

While having any paintings done they did their best to look as good as they could and shoes looked good

While on shore planning a raid travelling thru undergrowth and brush if they could have gotten boots boots would have been worn.

So if you are portraying a sailor on board ship, ditch the weapons and shoes and make yourself ready to work.

Now if you are portraying a successful pirate on and evening out definatly wear shoes and keep maybe a single pistol and knife.

However if you plan on raiding on shore pack your weaponry, pack your gear, and wear your boots. Don't forget to leave your fine clothes at home . . .

An estimation is 6-8 months before the first ones come off which are already spoken for. For someone wishing to purchase one these are not going to be like the India guns where you can just pick up a phone and pay for one and have it shipped. I simply can't afford to make up a couple dozen and have them sitting on a shelf hoping somebody will show up with cash and pay for one. When I do a "batch" deposits are needed or to have some prior deal worked out. I will work of trades or payments.

Not drilling the vent is not a problem, in fact I would rather sell them that way