Tartan Jack

BUT, where to get cheap ones . . .

I know PLENTY of metal ones and "train" ones that are 5 for $10-15 (I would need 6-8 packs, THEN convert-> $60-$120).

Anyone know of a source for CHEAP ones?

If you read Captain Twill, I am making a plastic model of a pirate ship.

It will end up at 1/48 scale (1/4"=1'). I need a crew for its deck.

They NEED to be about 1.25-1.5 (1 1/4 to 1 1/2) inches tall (scale 5-6 feet).

That is 40mm for you wargame folks.

I also need them to be fairly cheap. I want to get 30-40 of them for the upper deck.

I can repaint even cheap solid color plastic ones. The HEIGHT is my main concern (beside LOOKING like 18th C. sailors-> No green army men please!).

Do you know where I can get them?

Well, I suppose I could run home to my parents house and borrow a canoe for awhile...

Be sure to hoist the Jolly Roger!!!!

My driveway is flooding. It's a frigid South Dakota winter, it should be too cold for my driveway to be flooding already! True, I expected it to happen in the spring when everything melts, but...

We have a small creek about 10 feet from our driveway. It froze months ago, but there's still water flowing, and it has to go somewhere. So it flows overtop of the already frozen bit. More freezes. I've been watching the creek swell with great interest for several weeks now. As of last night there was a slushy spot at the side of the driveway. This morning it was noticeably larger. I'm just waiting for the morning when I have to call in to work and say "Hey Doris? I, um, can't get in to work. My driveway's flooded....Yes, I do know that it's far below freezing, but you see, the way it works is..."

Take your ship out of storage and go for a short cruise!!!!!

Seahawke,

I found that VERY interesting.

It is AMAZING how much people of old did know and how they used their technology.

Now that I know a lot more about the under waterline technology, I find it REALLY COOL and understand better what that means and what each element of the tallow solution actually does.

I will sand the Thistle's hull and paint it a "dirty black" The planking would probably not be very visible under all that stuff.

Interesting element of scale switching. It is remarkable how many details of models designed as smaller scales are actually 1/48, so they can actually be seen.

Look at the stairs and bricks of most "HO" buildings. I have used a number "out of box" in O guage. In 1/87, the bricks are the size of cinder blocks. In 1/48, just perfect. Also, train sheds and engine houses make GREAT garages and small industrial buildings.

(for rest of my posts in the thread: Thistle=Constitution model)

Wages,

sent em to ye via pm, if anyone else is interested, i can post them in twill or beyong pyracy?

Salty

Got em.

Thanks!!!

VERY interesting!!!

Related question:

(asked here to keep questions together for future searches)

How much space (side to side) is needed to operate a cannon.

Can a cannon be operated in 6 feet of space or is more needed?

In the model in question, if all original cannon ports are used, I have a scale 6 feet of space for each cannon crew. Is that enough?

Does it need 12 feet? (6 per side measured from centerline of cannon itself).

I am not exactly sure if I am going to make the Consti into a schooner, Brig, or what the rigging will be.

I might keep it a 3 master or make it into a 2 master (as some prizes actually were converted).

I will COMPLETELY alter the rigging and sail arrangement. If the plastic masts do not convert well, I could make new masts out of dowel rod, if I have to.

The context will be either as a "generic" shelf thing, or sitting as a "museum ship" in harbor on a Lionel/O-Guage train layout.

I started particular project (bought the kit) about 7 years ago. Stored it. 3 years ago, pulled out, test fitted, schemed, and put back up. 2 years ago, pulled out kit, glued hull togther. Stopped, moved, left in storage.

Since beginning, I have learned A LOT about ships of that era.

As a test, I bought a "Jolly Roger" to try techniques of converting that ship into something small. I am rigging it as a sloop (though it is a tad narrow in beam).

The Consti/Thistle hull is 24 inches long on main deck and about 5 1/2 inches wide.

So, that converts to 96 feet long and 22 feet wide.

So, it is actually closer to the scale of the Ranger or Queen Anne's Revenge than a sloop or contemporary schooner (which actually came a bit later than the GAoP).

The model's main problem is that the gap from top deck to gun deck is only about an inch (4 feet)

If I leave off the upper deck, except in the stern portion after the third mast, I can make the "gun deck" into the main deck.

Then again, I might just "fake it" and have the gun deck fully enclosed and less detailed. I doubt ANYONE would think twice about the actual height of the ceiling in the gun deck when all that is visible is ONLY through the gun ports themselves and the deck grates (with "crap" placed on those grates).

I will still have room for a "living in" deck and some for an "under hold" for storage in the bottom of the hull.

The "stock" gun ports are only about 6 scale feet from center-to-center, so I might have to "close off" half of them. The "stock cannons will only be about 36 with all cannon ports used.

The "looser" arrangement makes it to just over 20 cannons (plus rail guns).

The ACTUAL Constitution had over 44 cannons, plus rail guns.

I "play with scale" A LOT when I build models.

I build almost EVERYTHING to approx. 1/48 scale.

I tend to truncate things to fit a smaller space.

I am planning a version of Atlanta's long dead Ponce de Leon Ballpark in 1/144 (1/3 of the size of the people that will be in the stands and players on the field). I also plan to either add "field stands" ala (Bears at Wrigley, Lions at Tiger Stadium, Redskins at Fenway, and Giants at Yankee) to make a football stadium or make the whole convertible or replacible with a Clemson "death valley"-esque stadium.

I am also designing a Aircraft carrier model. The ship itself will be a 1/100 scale Midway-class, as the cancelled CV-44. The planes will be 1/72. The pilots and deck crew will be 1/48.

Another project had a very interesting side effect of accuracy. I used 1/72 WW2 aircraft as the base for 1/48 30s air racers. I mixed them with the testors rerelease of the Hawk kits and compared them with ACTUAL measurements of Brown's, Turner's and other authenic designs and they match almost EXACTLY. I am now able to have Roscoe Turner, a Gee Bee, Red Baron, Dago Red, and Strega side-by-side and no one seems to think twice about it.

Now, the ships are e bit of a challenge of how unmodified can I leave the hulls and make the decently "accurate" as a different ship type of another era.

What I enjoy about models is to take a kit, do A LOT of research and make "my own" version of reality. If I did a real ship (built Consti as Old Ironsides), I am a stickler to the point I don't really enjoy it anymore. Tiny things NO ONE noticed irritate the PISS out of me. I have to be precise and accurate in my work and a"perfect" model doesn't act as stress relief and usually end up unfinished as I am not content with it as it is and want "one more thing."

BUT, if I do a "variation" I mix a bit of "artistic" and "creative" and make something unique and that I REALLY have fun doing.

A "what if" allows be the flexibility to have my creativity let loose and my "rivet counting" to be held in check.

So, a not-quite accurate conversion in exact period details makes a good and interesting challenge that balances the other part of my life.

So, here I am asking about the colors.

BUT, while on it, how early was the bow arrangement of the Constitution actually used. It looks similar to pictures I've seen of sloops, but not exact.

I am actually having difficulty finding good pictures of GAoP bows.

I originally picked the Constitution model, as I had been informed that the hull was THE SAME shape as an early schooner or sloop (forgot which). Now, I know that is not entirely accurate. I still seem to recall that the hull itself is "based" on a schooner below the waterline and a frigate above it, producing a very fast and formidable naval ship that was more a match for a British frigate. One book (forgot which) called it "a frigate and a half."

I still figured it can make a nice "Pirate ship" model, if not exactly accurate.

the model itself is not "Capt Twill," but the paint itself.

I also thought it would be interesting and useful for others making models, real ships, and fiction here on the forum.

I am reminded of something I read in my church's denominational minutes from the build-up to prohibition. By the way, it is made up of mainly hard-headed Scots.

(A paraphrase, as I do not own the original, nor have I read it in a while)

Whereas, we have taken a stand against the production and consumption of alcohol

(more reasons here)

We would like to encourage or members, notably our ELDERS, and ESPECIALLY OUR MINISTERS

to cease the consumtion and PRODUCTION of the said drink, PARTICULARLY PRODUCTION STILLS on CHURCH PROPERTY.

Appearantly, there was enough of a problem of ministers and elders producing alcohol, particularly whisky on church property (ministers living in a manse on church property), that they felt a need to publically proclaim it, in writing, in the minutes of synod (which were distributed to each church in the denomination).

If you know anything about my particular church denomination, THAT is a VERY BIG DEAL. Usually, such concerns are handled privately and "under the table," so as not to shame a brother or put the church in a bad spot. Thus, it must have been a REAL problem.

I have also been told, by a church historian, that some of the MINISTERS and elders simply moved their stills to more remote locations, away from the church property.

Trying to make a frigate look like a schooner makes as much sense as making a WWII battleship or cruiser look like a destroyer. The proportions do not match in either case.

Been there, done that.

Looked really cool, broken in move.

Became a yacht.

I am NOT kidding.

That is one of the fun elements of models:

Making and remaking them into something else.

Calca Non Meum

Tread NOT upon me!

Don't Tread on Me!

You know, that makes a pretty good slogan!

With a coiled rattlesnake

I think I'll put it on a bright yellow flag!

One book:

A general history of the 18th century, or one of the history of the first 30 years or so.

I'd be the NOSTRADAMUS of the pirate age!!!!

(evil )

My name is Captain Spalding!

The African Explorer!

Horray, horray, horray!

OK how do I get this big silly grin off my face?...wait..no need

Looking forward to the boxed sporran . . .

I mean cat!

William....the death's head is not a bad idea since folk would have been familar with it from tombstones.

Was it here that someone asked if the skull and wings were and intergal part of each other?...... if not there are many variations on teh deaths head i can post some examples if any one is interested from a study on tombstones i did.

By the way everyone who worked on designes they all have their merits

Well, I'd be interested, even if it is JUST by PM.

I am trying to make some of my OWN flags, just for the fun and challenge of it. I want to try as many technique variations and designs as possible.

I am JUST learning of PIP and have to see how this year goes. If it happens in the right way, I would be VERY interested in taking part (even if I cannot make it there in person).

Home Brewing and Distilling are legal, for the most part, for personal consumption only.

Actually I'm afraid that any home distilling for human consumption is illegal in the United States.You can apply for a permit from the BATF for an experimental still for making fuel, but you'll have to promise not to drink any of it

-CS

Definatively stated:

Cite source, statute please!

Also, remember . . .

Mash STINKS!!!!!!!!

So, home distilling might not be the best idea. legal or not.

I'll BUY my alcohol (I like the fact the FDA has to approve it as safe, esp. moonshine-> great , great uncle blinded by bad moonshine, NO KIDDING!!!!!)

Which ships were used in the filming of the "film"/"video" of Blackbeard:Terror of the Seas?

At least on sloop and a 3 master.

BUT, which ones?

(In reality, NOT as named in the film)

Of course, writers could intend one date and the set decorator another, costumes, models, etc. yet another.

My uncle works in films (director of photography), 2 cousins and brother went to film school, and all of us are movie nuts/nerds.

So, I at least understand some about the film industry and the confusing of historical things.

Accuracy is a usually VERY questionable, unless the producer/director/designers/all else work REAL HARD at acccuracy.

Given some time I can probably dredge tube lengths up from somewhere...

EDIT.  The quick and dirty answer... did you look here!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon

Wiki:

Looks like 8-10 ft!

Just figured I'd ask.

I am usually pretty good at figuring this out. I was confused, so I wasn't the only one.

I was "informed" that it was supposed to take place in a certain range of years, but couldn't get anything to line up where it made any sense. The main "elements" seem to come from Morgan's buccaneers to the Nassau exiling period (wide in itself).

It seems a more "Hollywood Chronology" (like some other "period" pieces, where people of different generations are shown as contemporary).

Seems I was right and they were wrong!!!!

I WIN!!! I WIN!!!!

(Thanks for reactions!!!!!)

I was HOPING to use them as GAoP ships, but the hull shapes are limiting (If used as accurate).

The "Constitution" one can either be done as a 2 masted or 3 (depending on how I rig it).

The bottom is molded as copper plated, which I could sand smooth and (possibly) scribe as planks.

Right now, I am looking for all I can on hull shapes in the 18th Century.

If I recall correctly, the American frigates were basically a "scaled up" version of the hulls used for Rev. war privateers (schooners, if I remember correctly).

I am not trying to make any real ship, just a period-looking one.

This is intended to be more "fun" than "painstakingly perfect," BUT I want to be as accurate as possible (without going into any "extrodinairy efforts").

I questioned BECAUSE I saw the many very accurate planked models WITH the "expensive" white hulls.

I am just trying to see my color pallet for any paint jobs.

(plus, this thread may be helpful for other "virtual" ship creators and model makers here, as well as writers to know period ship colors)

Thanks,

I can't seem to find the answer, so I'll have to start a thread to find out:

What years is POTC supposed to take place in?

Curse of the Black Pearl?

Dead Man's Chest?

(not long after CoBP, a year or 2?)

Come now...didja spect th Cat t' be lured in so easily?

She said from a safe hidin spot..

Is that box being sent to me?

THANKS!!!!!!

(now, for that raccoon!)

(SLICE AND DICE)

Random:

I am becoming a branding expert.

Has anyone noticed that all Blackbeard did was really self-branding!

Though Foxe has found no proof of the Blackbeard horned atonomy Death flag, I find it hard to believe that Teach did NOT have SOME sort of unusual personal flag. I don't think he would have just used a flag that looked like a hundred or more contemporary pirates. Also, a similar flag (sans horns) is on record BEFORE the "Blackbeard" one, so it seems as least plausible to be that it could be similar to something he would have tried. Of course, I'll have to gladly confer and refer to those who have access and have read CONTEMPORARY PRIMARY SOURCES (as I have not).

OK, I am "converting" two plastic models into pirate ships/boats.

One of them will be the Lindberg "Jolly Roger" into a sloop.

The other will be the 1/96 scale Revell USS Constitution.

BOTH will be made into 1/48 scale.

I am trying to figure out the color schemes I plan to use.

One issue I am unable to decipher:

"Pirates and Patriots of the Revolution" by Keith Wilbur, p. 13:

"Below the waterline, tallow was frequently in service. A formula of the times called for "paying" the bottom with one part tallow, one part brimstone, and three parts resin." He then writes about copper and how unlikely it would be for a privateer.

SO, what color would that formula create:

dark brown?, off white (as I have seen on a number of models)? something else?

Ths most common colors seem to be:

Black-> cheap as made from lamp deposits

Yellow oxide

Red oxide (barn red-> more brown then Coca-cola red)

Sienna

Some blues and greens (which were imported, so more expensive than the homegrown colors)

White was NOT common, as Wilber says, "for it was expensive and dried an off-yellow tint."

Any other ideas for colors?

I plan to make the larger one into the "Thistle" pirate/privateer.

The sloop I have not named yet (though I could just use Revenge, as that is THE MOST common pirate sloop name.

As there has been some discussion of flags, here is a bump from a year ago.

Note-> color issues.