Tartan Jack

Looking at the picts, I am beginning to wonder . . .

WAS the first pict actually OF Sithcamaro and then had the face of Depp added in by photoshop?

The hands and everything else looks DEAD ON in lighting, shading, and grain. Only Depp's face looks different (and then only ever so slightly).

The costumes also look IDENTICAL!

Are those shots of the same costume and the same hands, but with the first having an altered face?

Looking at THAT site, it seems that a yellow flag HAD been used previously (in the later middle ages) for Q. It was reinstituted by 1800.

It cites a white flag both for Q. and to signify the cleaning of a port (in Hawaii) in 1710.

So, I would not feel safe saying a yellow flag meant Q in the GAoP.

Also, a yellow flag with the coiled snake was proposed by Gadsden of South Carolina as the ensign of the US Navy commander in 1776 (or so). IF yellow had the Q association among sailors, I would be surprised at such a proposal. That flag WAS adopted popularly and used HEAVILY by the patriot troops and militia, becoming the de facto state flag of South Carolina for a while.

(NOT proof, just interesting in light of the discussion)

Also, Foxe has stated that contemporary sources cite yellow as a very/the most common color for pirate flags during the GAoP, but a color that fell out of favor soon afterwards (when black became the virtual standard). (Search for info on flags for info on yellow pirate flags).

The show was OK.

It was the "normal" stuff on John Rackham, but with historians doing the talking.

Angus Konstam talked on it QUITE a bit.

I didn't look to closely at the kit and ships (busy dealing with kids).

Overall, NOT BAD!

I'd watch it again gladly.

So, WHAT is that made from?

How HARD is it?

I have some ideas that "popped" into my head, but am not sure how it might work.

How about "The Good Ship Venus"

The figure head was a wh*re in bed, sucking a dead man's pen!$.

The cook's name was Freeman, and he was a dirty demon he fed the crew on men..... stew and hy... fried in se....

I can't bring myself to type it out... fun as hell singing in the car though.

I got it off of the Rogue's Gallery CD, produced by Johnny Depp and Gore Verbanski, the perfomances of the songs are hit or miss with me.

The main version is MUCH, MUCH worse than that on the "Rogue's Gallery" CD, which was a bad enough version on its own right.

(look it up on google)

Thanks for the links, advise, and lyrics. This is an interesting thread!

I think I'm going to freakin' hurl!

-- Sir Henry

Be sure to AIM for the BUCKET BOOTS!!!!!

From what research I have done:

The PERIOD flags were a VERY light, but strong form of wool known as wool bunting (the significance s in the weave, which is unique to bunting).

NONE of the GAoP flags survived. Of the ones described, most are JUST of the insignia and a couple mention "silk." NONE specifically state that the main pirate flags were canvas, except as a VERY temporary measure.

In history, it is usually safest to go with general practice than to postulate what "might" have been done that deviate from "normal," esp. when PERIOD sources make little to nothing on anything unusual. People tend to ONLY note things that are "odd" PRECISELY because they are DIFFERENT from norm.

So, we can sermize (sp?) that most were wool bunting, like the REST of the flags aboard a ship.

Thus, for a MODERN recreation of an OLD flag, the SAFEST thing to do is either find VERY light wool OR use a modern light cotton (as most of these will not ACTUALLY face wear and tear of a sea flag).

As for how to attach the insignia, the most easily to argue is the applique (sewn on). Period descriptions of flags also talk about people PAINTING stuff onto flags. However, we MUST remember that often that painting is dark on light rather than light on dark (older paints were often not as opaque as modern ones). Now the TYPE of paint, I have read a number of opinions, but have not reached ANY conclusion as to WHAT was used then, so have NO IDEA as to a modern equivalent. Many use modern artist acrylics, esp. as they are easy to use, relatively light weight and opaque, cheap to get moderate brands, and generally water resistant ONCE DRY.

I have materials to make a couple flags of my own design. One of them is some light, but stong plaid cotton purchased for an uncompleted project. The rest are black and deep navy wool (I THINK I also have some red too) in a light weight, but not actually bunting (as far as I have found, NO ONE makes bunting anymore). On these flags, I plan to use applique techniques for the white portions and other large areas, with artist acrylic paint on the black (maybe a few touches of other colors).

The plaid flag is for "Tartan Jack" and will have a skull and crossed dirks (in imitation of the Scot saltaire).

The others are for more "historical" style designs.

Later, they used yellow flags for quarantine, but I THINK that came just AFTER the GAoP.

Living right by the mayor? Lucky you, have you ever had to ask for a pardon?

Hell with the pardon, ask for a Letter of Marque!!!

Coastie :angry:

I would . . .

But the wife would KILL ME with it!

So would the town mayor, who lives DIRECTLY behind me.

I'd be twice deid!

(BUT, It would be OH SO FUN to aim it (with LIVE ammo) at the MAYOR'S YELPING AND BARKING MUTTS, I mean DOGS!!!!!)

William Wallace

100%

Maximus

83%

Indiana Jones

83%

Batman, the Dark Knight

79%

Captain Jack Sparrow

75%

Lara Croft

75%

YEP, THAT about summed it up!

More like:

For the sake of usage:

(I know it is from the MOVIE "Rob Roy," BUT Peter MacDonald, one of the premier kilt historians was the one who came up with the costumes. As far as movies go, it is pretty good.)

Just to show what the relevant STYLE of sporran would look like in an period-appropriate dressed highlander.

Note also, It is HUNG from his BELT by a long strap, NOT a "sporran strap"!!!

I wish there had been more of DMC's "Scruffyington" because he was damn hot and sexy!

He was too clean and proper in AWE and his story was cut short. There are many photos of Norrington on the internet  that are not in the movie so I believe that many scenes were cut. Hopefully there will be a director's cut of all 3 movies and we'll see them as they were first created.

For Disney, where there is money . . . there is a way.

(At least that is my impression. Those that work for the MOU$E, please feel free to correct me.)

(I MISS the days of Walt, when values and quality drove the company, rather than what ever makes the most $$$$- )

Why would he be wearing a kilt if you're looking for Picts?

Pics, not picts...

"Picts" is a tongue-in-cheek variation I picked up many, many moons ago.

With my real interest in early Scottish (Albanach-> "of Alba" the old name for Scotland in the "native" dialect) history, it just cracks me up and people STILL get that I mean "pictures."

I do separate my silliness from my serious study of history.

The devolpment of the kilt from the belted plaid is VERY interesting and are the many questions on the Picts and how the interacted with the Scots, as the Scots come over from Ireland and "invaded" the Picts' land.

Now, back to topic.

I vote Will Turner takes up the NAME Davy Jones, much like Princess Bride and the "Dread Pirate Roberts" (itself a reference to the 3 year career of Black Bart Roberts).

Thanks Bess,

It was a friend I know through Scot-related things. We were talking about the "artistic process" and how ideas develop. He insisted that Disney had toyed with the idea of making Sparrow a kilt-wearing Scot. I have NEVER seen one nor HEARD of it, except from him.

I looked and didn't see anything on-line, nor in Art of POTC. SO, I thought I would ask on here. If ANYONE knew one way or another, it would be here.

Thanks!!!!

Of couse, this is me in my Carolina kilt (and a special made sporran)

Let's say, I don't take it TOO seriously.

And more "normal" pictures:

I DON"T mean the above sporrans as GAoP usage, BUT for modern "casual" wear (t-shirts to tweed and tie).

A friend of mine insists that he once saw an early concept drawing of Jack Sparrow as a kilt clad Scotsman.

First, I am wondering IF there is such a drawing.

Assuming above is TRUE-

Second, IF I can get my hands on a copy of it.

Waiting impatiently,

Somehow, I missed the continuation of my question.

The style itself, with the PLAIN lid is actually rather "authentic" and similar in design to the one found described in the appendices of J. Charles Thompson's "So Your Gonna Wear the Kilt."

It is also the basic design used by a number of other kilt sporran makers of whom I am aware.

The PRICE ($65) for the basic is EXCELLENT!

The "look" is VERY similar to portraits from the late 1600s, 1700s and early 1800s.

"READ" the paintings, as Bob Martin likes to say.

For the kilts, ya'll may find 2 kilt forums I frequent to be interesting:

http://www.kiltsrock.com/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/

(I happen to be a mod on the former)

They are rather different on demeanor, with the first being SIGNIFICANTLY less politically correct (more like some of the threads on this forum).

It was on the second that someone posted pics of these sporrans and I thought, "Those look VERY familiar."

Now, to save some money for one, or a couple . . .

Kilts are NOT costumes, though some costumes call for them. IF you are creating a specific period, then you NEED to look at CONTEMPORARY depictions for styles.

Most "hair" sporrans come from a later period than the ones depicted above. Like I said, the PLAIN version is VERY "authentic" for what a typical 17th and 18th century highlander would have worn. The embosed flaps are fine for modern kilt wearing, whether using a modern kilt or a "traditional" tartan one.

REMEMBER: the EMBOSSED flaps are NOT "authentic," as in common for the time when kilts were commonly worn. Pirates wouldn't have put the skull and bones on them either.

My authority:

Kiltmaker ("4 yard" box-pleat kilts) and minor kilt/belted plaid/tartan-historian.

I am MUCH more proficient with kilts, tartans, Scottish history, and the like than with pirates and ships.

For your info:

When The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine wrote his book "The Kilt & How to Wear It" in 1901, he describes at LENGTH the RECENT excessivness of the 8 yard kilts and says he is a FAN of the NEW-FANGLED pleating of the kilt so the back pattern matches the front. SO, the 8-yard knife pleat to sett was NEW in 1901 (NOT centuries old). The OLD way of doing it was a 4 yard box pleat to stripe (and Erskine says as much in this book).

For GOOD kilt (and Scottish) history info:

http://albanach.org/index.htm

(Check out the articles and blog-> NOT my site, by a friends)

I rather like the sporrans and the way they combine my primary and secondary interests in a nicely made, elegant, and attractive simple manner.

Aye, they're much better than the drawstring kind. That gets in the way all the time. Not just for the ladies.

Yet one MORE reason a kilt is BETTER to wear!

FOUND IT!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1423106547/re...&pf_rd_i=507846

"The Pirate Guidelines: A Book for Those Who Desire to Keep to the Code and Live a Pirate's Life" (Pirates of the Caribbean) (Paperback)

by Joshamee Gibbs

(Looks like Mr. Gibbs wrote the Code  )

Thanks for the link Wages!

It seems that it could be a pretty cool book, but personally this one has peeked my interest more: the Art of Pirates of the Caribbean :)

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Pirates-Caribbea...3496745-4446048

The Art one is on its way to me . . . as is Art of Star Wars, Episode 3.

Beyond that, my understanding is that many sailors didn't know how to swim, partly because they were assured a quick death if their ship went down. Armor would certainly help that along, if that be the case.

DING! DING! DING!

And We have a WINNER!!!

(I was longing on make that point . . .)

Oddly, most sailors couldn't swim. Now, HOW ODD is that??

FOUND IT!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1423106547/re...&pf_rd_i=507846

"The Pirate Guidelines: A Book for Those Who Desire to Keep to the Code and Live a Pirate's Life" (Pirates of the Caribbean) (Paperback)

by Joshamee Gibbs

(Looks like Mr. Gibbs wrote the Code )

WW2, STILL modern in the context that the "samuari" period effectively ended in the 1870s, or so (NOT actually any of my main areas of interest, but the basis of "The Last Samuari"). The mythologizing was in full swing by 1900, once the "real thing" was dead and no longer a threat.

Actually much like piracy as well.

The emperor and other leaders utilized bushido and other lore, applied to a MUCH larger context than it had been in the REAL past, to formulate the "modern" Japanese "character" that was so implanted by WW2.

(sorry for any misspellings, I tend to so that on these forums and have a problem remembering HOW to spell "samuari")

WHAT!!!!!!

You mean a katana can't chop a claymore in twain?????

I think the katana thing has more to do with the modern mythologizing of Japanese history and legend than anything historical.

(I am curious as to Hand's original intent . . . However, this thread has been VERY interesting.)