Tartan Jack

Does that mean I'm stuck here w/ all you gents? This could be very, very dangerous . . . And a LOT of fun!

If I am able to get off work . . . I'll be carpooling w/ CJ from Charleston, SC. You'd be welcome to join us too!

Vought-Chance Cutlass: Another in a long line of planes built by them named after pirate-related stuff. The most famous are the F4U Corsair and A-7 Corsair II. Neither is directly related to this thread . . . Foxe, just to make sure, "cutlass" IS a period term, correct? The sword experts tell me that a cutlass (the broad heavy one we think of today) is more related to a long bladed axe than a broadsword, making it a sword-ax. As such, the name root mentioned above makes some sense. As for in-period, these were a set of terms (like others) that wasn't "pinned down" exactly and overlapped meaning w/ other terms we don't think of as overlapping today. So, there was some describing technical meaning (mean different things, literally), while others describe common use (terms overlap, even if not literally correct in their application). There are many, many terms like that today in both "proper" English-English ( for Foxe) and in American-English.

Typical looms, as shown in remnants in England, Scotland, and Ireland were commonly in the 20 to 27 inch wide range. That is why "double width" is what 54-60 inch wide modern fabric is typically called. Now, I'm wondering if 20 inch has some special, practical significance over that around 24 inches/2 feet . . .

Typically . . . Jumping between: "Rogues Galley" collection Flogging Molly (all of the albums) Albannach Old Blind Dogs Tannanhill Weavers Other random stuff that fits my fancy

Now . . . I need to convince the wife to let me purchase Mark's dingy, to facilitate everything (and get me much needed experience). Sounds good for everyone around!

I'm back home and after having an bug (had fevers on the way home and last night). Anyways, I wanted to publicly than the wonderful and knowledgeable staff and rangers at the Charles Towne Landing historic site (where Charleston, SC started before moving across the Ashley River to Oyster Point). While there, I had the opportunity to: - Show people around the Adventure, a reproduction of a 1670s trading ketch. - Sleep on said Adventure. - Fire a reproduction Saker, as part of a battery of 2 sakers and 2 demi-culverns. We used period-correct commands too. - Hang out w/ a bunch of cool and neat reenactors from Florida and Maryland (St Mary's) at a period camp. For those there, I'm "John" who was there Friday-Sunday as a seaman. - Discuss period stuff and teach visitors about the period. This belongs in "beyond piracy" as it IS NOT a pirate event. It is a anniversary celebration of the founding of the city. There are 1670s reenactors and local folks who volunteer at the park and wear period kit too. The park heads do a GREAT job at capturing the feel of the 1670s. Also, the ketch would make a terrible pirate vessel- more like a pirate target. We got the "are you pirates?" question plenty enough, so I denied it and talked about what pirates would do if they captured a vessel of this type, as well as the "classic" pirates being from 40 years later. I'm posting this to let Capt. Twill-types know about this event and how great it was. It would be one to consider for those willing to make the drive. I had a BLAST! (Literally and metaphorically) Also, I'd like to let all those who I met and forgot to give contact info too (esp. the St Augustine and St Mary's folks). Quite a few seem to have been on here, as we ended up discussing pirates a fair amount among ourselves. Now . . . I'm gonna need to put together the rest of a mid-1600s-1670s kit . . .

Mark, I could see that next to the Firefly very, very easily.

Great points, Mark. The only thing that makes "pirate" unique is the sheer wide range of folks. I was thinking less "safety" and more "history" vs. ren faire vs. hollywood and the need for some sort of agreement statement as to what "history pirate" event would mean. Most folks into 17th C colonial an English Civil War are likely coming to a general idea of what they are after from the beginning, coming to a more-or-less similar "place" quite quickly. Now, if some popular series (film or TV) or some mega-blockbuster film pops up, and people get into it coming from a completely different POV . . . things could get interesting. Honestly, the "Capt Twill" brethren (and sistren) on here are probably more the unusual than the norm in "pirate" stuff. It seems to be growing, but isn't what most think what they "go play pirate" . . . Instead of an organization, I'm thinking a generally agreed general statement that is a more verbal agreement as to "what we do" or "who I am" in the realm and range of "pirate" . . . So, we can say, "I follow the idea/model/whatever of *******" and folks know what you mean w/o getting into enormous detail. More a "statement" than a council or organization. Based on what I saw and heard when I met you, Mark . . . your a model to be followed on how to do it -historical pirate- (esp. putting up w/ me and my inexperience on odd things ). I'm well open to your recommendations.

I wonder how heavy it is for towing and if my little 160hp xB could tow it . . .

Agreed. A general set of "standards of intended standards" (to make a silly title for the moment) would be a good idea. When talking to Nathan before Pirates of Paynestown last year, I could tell both of us were fishing around to see if he wanted me to come and if it was the kind of event I thought worth a 500 mile/9 hour drive (each way). An "I adhere to ****** standards" would be good reference point. I used names of the people I had talked to at length when putting my stuff together and "bounced" ideas off of when talking and researching the GAoP. It turned out that we were pretty close in intents, but would have been easier to have some shorthand to figure it out. I'd nominate Bagley, BlackJohn, and a few others (like Rats, from the Archangel crew-> the only one I've meet in person) as "point men" (used in general period sense, inclusive of women-kind too). for a good balance of historically accurate (always looking to be personally more accurate) yet balanced w/ a knowledge, guidance, and care for "newbies" who are tying to get there under under a tight budget and beginner understanding of the GAoP. What about "Flying Gang Articles" (to use a phrase I've heard Foxe use to reference the Nassau pirates)?

Right now . . . Jumping between a couple books on: Wako (Japanese pirates) Air America (the 1950s-1970s airline in SE Asia) Benerson Little's The Sea Rover's Practice AC-130s (the Hercules Gunship) Pack's "Nelson's Blood" (the chapter on 1655-1763) A few others, too . . .

No. Relevant in how the various details of that song reflect punishments used by/on sailors aboard nautical craft, inc. "pranks" played by sailors on one another.

Probably. There are many, many verses and variations of them.

"Drunken Sailor" What do you do with a drunken sailor, What do you do with a drunken sailor, What do you do with a drunken sailor, Earl-eye in the morning! [Chorus:] Way hay and up she rises Way hay and up she rises Way hay and up she rises Earl-eye in the morning Shave his belly with a rusty razor, Shave his belly with a rusty razor, Shave his belly with a rusty razor, Earl-eye in the morning! [Chorus] Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter, Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter, Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter, Earl-eye in the morning! [Chorus] What do you do with a drunken sailor, What do you do with a drunken sailor, What do you do with a drunken sailor, Earl-eye in the morning! [Chorus] Put him the back of the paddy wagon, Put him the back of the paddy wagon, Put him the back of the paddy wagon, Earl-eye in the morning! [Chorus] Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober, Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober, Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober, Earl-eye in the morning! [Chorus] What do you do with a drunken sailor, What do you do with a drunken sailor, What do you do with a drunken sailor, Earl-eye in the morning! [Chorus] What do you do with a drunken sailor, What do you do with a drunken sailor, What do you do with a drunken sailor, Earl-eye in the morning! [Chorus] (From http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/greatbigsea/drunkensailor.html ) Plus: 1. Put him in the long boat till he's sober, 2. Keep him there and make 'im bale 'er. 3. Shave his belly with a rusty razor. 4. Put him in bed with the captain's daughter. http://www.thebards.net/music/lyrics/What_Do_With_Drunken_Sailor.shtml

I got to a decent spirits store today . . . Their selection was STILL mainly mixing rums, however. -I'll just say that Upstate to Midlands South Carolina is a CRAP place to buy good rum . . . Anyways, . . . I got some Kraken, based mainly on Bilgemunky's reviews and the oh-so-cool bottle. Well, I opened it tonight and think it is QUITE good! It lacks the harsh "bite" of cheap rum, the overly sweet taste of Capt Morgan Private Stock, and the molasses flavor of the Cruzan Black Strap that I like. It is tasty. I'm liking it in the first mug (I have a specially made glazed ceramic "Scottish Shot Glass" that holds 4oz). I approve and this will be a "regular buy" for me, assuming they keep making it and the crappy ABC stores around here keep selling it. I approve.

Yes, eventually, it does. Unopened, it lasts a LONG time. Once opened, it's a quicker process. The actual time of both is affected by a wide number of factors including if there is ANY air gap, what the nature of the air in the bottle actually is, temperature at storage and if it varies, glass composition, some say light (others say it actually has no significant effect) and many, many more. Also, I've been told different spirits age quite differently and are affected more certain factors than others. In the perfect conditions, some Scotch has lasted several decades. Some claim a century, but the taste had probably significantly changed. I've never had a bottle last long enough to worry about it. I've had the 1.5L bottles last for months of occasional drinking. Usually, I only have one or 2 at a time. Rarely are there 4 bottles w/ anything in them. When I do, it is several types of spirits, mainly Scotches and Rums. So, I'll consume w/ random drinking a bottle or bottles till out or near out before I buy more. The larger bottles are proportionally cheaper (less per mL, get mote for buck), so I like to get those and enjoy.

Your doing a GREAT job! Awesome list, a lot of work and very, very interesting.

2 notes: 1)Condent's Flying Dragon and Fiery Dragon are the same boat renamed, not 2. It was destroyed in the same harbor as Kidd's Adventure Galley sank. The expedition looking for Kidd's ship stumbled upon the Dragon too. Could that entry be: Christopher Condent/William Condon- Flying Dragon (later renamed Fiery Dragon) sloop 10 Guns 150 tons Fiery Dragon (rename of above) Benito de Soto Black Joke 2) Thanks for the work! As Foxe noted in the thread that inspired this one . . . It is striking how many were actually 20-30 guns, larger than the "classic" sloop.

I agree on Sheriffmuir. It was only a "win" by who was still around after inconclusive fighting. Side note: the army set-up in the line was standard "British" tactics of the time. It works fine when facing an army that evenly spreads its forces. The idea is to "hold the line" on your left and to attack on the right. But, when facing armies both use this tactic, both lefts get routed and the battle becomes a spiral. Victory or loss depends on if one side or the other has stronger reinforcements/back line or is one side retreats during the assault when the left fails. This is most clearly born out in the Battle of Camden (in South Carolina) from 1780. When the RedCoat right beat the weaker Patriot left, the Patriot commander fled the field w/ his command staff and rear troops. So, the RedCoat right came around and surrounded the Patriot right (which had been lead by DeKalb) in a total Patriot loss. The same problem happened in the Jacobite Rebellions as happened in the American War/Revolution. Both sides were trained in British Military tactics, so when they faced each other they both used the same tactics and a similar flow of battle. The victory or loss depended on battlefield specific occurrences and sheer army strength. That changed in the latter part of the war, as the American "Patriots" started using "Indian" tactics (thinking of Morgan in particular) and a few smart commanders turned the standard tactics into manipulation of the battlefield (see Cowpens and Guilford Courthouse). Now . . . Back to 17-teens (and there abouts) discussions . . .

Jacobite politics were a weird splattering of issues, including but also beyond religious. Of course, religion was a MAJOR element . . . There were Catholics, Presbyterians, and various other Christian sects that split between the Jacobite/Hanoverian sides. Also, there were personal ties and hatreds that played into sides oft even more than religion. Just look at the example of Robert "Rob Roy" MacGregor . . . He was known as a Jacobite before the '15. There was an ongoing feud between Rob and Graham of Montrose, one of the primary Jacobite leaders. Plus, Robert was tied by blood to the Campbells, his mother was part of the Campbells of Glenlyon. For most of his life, Rob Roy signed his own name as "Robert Campbell." At some point (the precise beginning of which is debated), Rob came under the care and protection of Campbell of Argyle, a duke one of the most powerful figures in Scotland. Argyle was a leader in the Hanoverian-Government army. Religiously, Macgregor-Campbell was a Catholic, while Argyle was an outspoken Presbyterian- and from a line that were Covenanters too-> "hardline," Calvinistic Presbyterians. There is no doubt on those 2. I'm not sure of Montrose's personal convictions, as he was called a Presbyterian and a Papist at different times. Now, during the rebellion itself, Robert managed to be off-the-field when Montrose faught. In the big Jacobite loss at Sheriffmuir (Argyle won, while Montrose and John Erskine of Mar lost), Robert was leading an excursion to Doune Castle. At the time, some leading Jacobites believed Rob to be working as an agent for Argyle (others disagreed). After the war, Argyle and Rob Roy both claimed that Rob had been an spy on behalf of the Government, as their argument to get Rob a royal pardon. Historians today continue the argument as to which side of the '15 MacGregor was actually on, despite fielding with the Jacobites. Now, that was a bit of history from the pages of Scottish history, in period. But, it is relevant in reflecting in brief the complexities of the Jacobite issue and when it came time to act which side one would take. I'd make my persona as one caught in the middle, kindred to both sides and neither.

No problem w/ me. Like I said, it was a start. My idea was a way to "sticky" great info threads w/o having to have a huge list of topic at the start of each section. Do w/ it as you like, whatever gets the info out and locatable. Info is useless if one can't find it.

I did a starting one for Shipyard, which needs to be pinned. Twill is a bit large. That will take time to weed through.

Ship types used by Pirates: List of known Pirate ship names- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=16728 Privateer ship names- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=7863 General: http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=724 http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=1410 Good books- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=1781 Rigging: General explanation of types: http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=7168 Jibs and Foresails- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=16377 Gaff rigging- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=735 and http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=12019 Plans: Dingy- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=612 Longboats- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=10999 Sloop cross-section- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=14638 Some deck layouts- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=3304 Crew size: Sloop- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=16339 Rating of ships- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=6544 Trade marks: Companies- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=10480 Makers marks- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=11787 Pirate Flags: Designs- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=6177 Construction- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=9812 Size- http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=10853

I don't mean one big topic, but one w/ links. I'll make ones for twill and ship sections. Those are the ones I usually look at for info.