Tartan Jack

You could always build one, or have one built . . . As for the US Navy, I'm not sure they'll let them go as easy as they did after WW2. I wouldn't mind a launch, however!

Thanks for the offer, which I'll accept. Thanks for the comments, Michael. I'm looking forward to it.

I'm planning on coming, but have no crew thus far . . . I'd sleep on the beach.

So, he solid red wasn't specifically used by Privateers in the late 1600s and early 1700s (as I've oft red)? If that a myth that has become a standard (and hence uncited) "fact," it changes quite a but on the early flags that would have been used by British privateeers and "semi-privateers." Also, thanks for the info on the "no quarter" being older. Did it carry the meaning of "no quarter, unless you surrender immediately" or "no quarter, period" when seen at sea?

More:

My first "exposure" was through the "From Hell" film, where they heavily altered the real-life detective that looked for Jack the Ripper into a drugged out, clairvoyant genius. He was addicted to the green stuff (and they show how they used to drink it too). I've heard a fair about the stuff since then . . . I haven't tried it myself . . . Not yet . . .

Just found this thread again (I remembered it, but had issues finding it) . . . Bump, as it remains interesting! This was on interest in light of the article in the most recent issue of Pirate Magazine (got my copy yesterday). As for red, . . . I'm thinking that red was used by English pirates directly in relation to red being the "privateer" flag colour for British privateers. Basically, it is the Royal Navy red field ensign, but w/o the royal standard in the canton. Logically, the "private" warships operating as commerce raiders used such a symbol to distinguish themselves from the commissioned warships, which many "pirates" thought of themselves as being or formerly were employed as and continued to engage in after the end of their letters of marque entitled activities. Basically, the red was used as a continuation of legal activities, even if the governments didn't necessarily recognize those flying it anymore. Also, this gets into the "fuzzy" line between privateer (legal) and pirate (illegal). Is that a reasonable conclusion or are there problems w/in it?

Isn't this the same museum "Pirate Soul" being moved from Key West? Or did Pat start a second one?

With the name/ID of silkie/selkie, I figured it would be the Pelt (or Gaelic for the sealskin). For those that don't know what a selkie is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selkie

One question relevant to all . . . Where is it?

You WILL be missed! Stop by a library (free internet) or the like occasionally and drop by . . .

Thanks, Foxe. Honestly, I hadn't read much on the two ladies out of the (literally) tonnes written about them. There is so much bad and simply made-up stuff on a paper written by people w/ serious agendas and out to make a particular point. Instead, I've been researching lots and lots of other stuff- mostly looking for info on period-correct ships and related topics. I withdraw my earlier post on them.

Because of the Auld Aliance . . . I am OK w/ Frog pirates. We have a common enemy in the Spanish . . . And a few angry Natives abused by the Spanish are among us . . .

Frog pirates are MUCH better than Frog pirate hunters!!!

My first question would be if the British commander was being literal or figurative. The second would be if he meant the platforms on the masts or the upper/top deck, or either the quarterdeck or forecastle. The common charge made by the Admiralty against the Americans in the War of 1812 is that the Americans weren't playing fair. There were established "rules of war" on who fought who and all sorts of related stuff. With the American Frigates, they were built along the hull shapes of earlier light/fast frigate, but on the scale and firepower of "razed" ships-of-the-line frigates (the upper decks were cut off to only leave one or 2 gundecks and 30-40 cannons. The American frigates used 24-pounders and 32-pounder carronades as their main guns, while British frigates typically had 18s and only some had carronades. Also, many British frigate had between 20 and 36 guns, while the American ones had 32-44 guns. The British termed the American ones "Frigates and a half" and declared they weren't "fair" to British frigates, so British frigate captains could run from battle with them with no dishonor. Later in the war, the Admiralty declared that 2 British frigate were to "fairly" take on one American one. Basically, they said the Americans "cheated" and made ships that weren't "fair" to the established "rules" for naval combat of the era. You know what . . . They did. On purpose. And built NO ships-of-the-line.

Not a member of the Order . . . But this one "rings all the right bells" for a pirate/sailor group, esp. one that references Colonial America as a primary influence.

I'm in South Carolina . . . I'll stop there. Now, back to thread on prizes.

(Side post . . . that was a topical reference to many Scots being offended by them being called "Brits" or "British." Such isn't just a new phenomenon, as the term "Brit" was loaded to the Scots during the time before and after the Act of Union (1707). Even today, a number of Scots react to being called by the term "Brit" the same as many American "Southerners" react to being called "Yankees." Now, back to the thread topic . . . )

Also, remember that the USN of the time was VERY similar to the RN. The American military original adopted a variation of British military "cuture," as many were British born and (originally) British trained. So, their past culture and what they were "used to" was the British way. Over time and new experiences, it diverged more and more into what it is today. If what Foxe says was adopted by the RN, then the USN likely had something similar or at least the men expected similar. At the time, the US Navy was still establishing itself after being a shadow-force following the end of the Revolution/American War (for you British and Scottish readers), the Navy having been largely disestablished at the end of conflict. Under Jefferson and the Barbary issues, it was just getting itself back together. The Philadelphia and it's sister-ships were pretty much the first ships of the "new American Navy." Side topic: The connections between the British culture and tactics can be seen in how the armies and ships moved and operated in the American Revolution. Using the Battle of Camden as an example, BOTH sides liked up using standard lines and the battle hinged on when the Patriot's weak side (facing the British strong side) fled the field and allowed the line to swing around and surround the American strong side. - Sorry, I momentarily forget which side was weak and which was strong . . . - The naval establishment was the same, with the Americans adopting what they knew and were "used to" doing already. Though by the War of 1812, the Americans were beginning to be more "unique. That said, many "Royal Navy" traditions were still in place . . .

Honestly, this question fuels the whole "shipyard" section of the forum . . . You'd want on w/ simple enough rigging for your crew to operate (as larger crews meant more shares to divide anything captured), fast enough to overtake any prey, and all else depended on the situation (location, intent, what doing, and era). Pirates used about everything from a canoe to a captured warship. Most were sloops or brigs w/ a number of ships around 100 feet long. See this list: http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=16728 After each name, the type is listed as well as number of guns. Here is an index of a few of the more info-filled threads in this section: http://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=16737

I concede to Foxe . . . He know a HECK of a lot more on it than me.

This should be under "Captain Twill" for historical discussions, rather than "Order of the Leviathan." As for the question . . . One simple reason (historically speaking): Sailors, by the nature of the job and mores of the eras we are talking, were all men. Any "women sailors" would have been disguised as men, as Mary Reed and Anne Bonny were before they revealed themselves to one another and Rackham (and Mary's lover). The issue of when/if they were "exposed" to the rest of the crew is a matter of debate. Remember that "Mary" had been raised as "Mark Reed" since childhood and even spent a good time as an infantry soldier under the name of "Mark Reed." Now, sailors made up the vast majority of pirates. The exceptions were the "buccaneers" that were more soldiers on ships than real sailors, landlubbers who "went-a-pirating" (like Stede Bonnet) for some reason or another, and skilled men of one kind or another. Women just weren't in a place to become pirates as we think of them popularly. The very reason Mary and Anne became so famous is that they were a marked exception, shocking, and became a MAJOR news and tabloid story. Neither were captains and served under the less-than-really-great-pirate John "Calico Jack" Rackham (mostly known for being caught w/ Mary and Anne aboard- AFTER he called out his name and then went below deck to drink . . . ). (Edit- I remembered the wrong info, from an inaccurate source on whether or not they were known as women and when. There is a lot of bad-info out there on them and I remembered one that was less-than-accurate. I withdraw most of the above. I bow to Foxe, as he has studied this topic FAR more than I have.) Grace operated not as a captain on ship, but more like an Irish chief. She was over sailors, who were followers. (Edit- I mis-remembered this and looked it up again. She did. Her close contemporary female nautical leader did not.)

Do you mean strictly historical/period correct? Or "plausible" historical-ish?

Thanks. For some reason, I was thinking the hanging was late 1722. (I misremembered Roberts as dying later than he did-> more like 1725 than Feb 1722. That had A LOT to do w/ my previous post on too early.) Late 1720 or early 1721 would be the correct timing if de Hurault was actually hung by Roberts. If he showed up back in France or elsewhere in 1722 or later, that would be quite interesting . . . Any more personal info, like a first name (at least)? (Everything I can find is in French, which I can't read.)

Quite funny . . . But probably not period correct . . .