Hawkyns

OK, so they did exist. I thought they must have in some form, just never saw the ref. Question stll remains, though, were they ever belt worn? Foxe- I did see that, thank you. At least I have one reference to doing right. Hawkyns

Sorry, miss-spoke- VHS. That's what I get for posting before my morning cuppa. Hawkyns

Well. I hate to be a 'me-too', but it's impossible not to with this one. Loved the movie when I saw it, got the DVD about 6-7 years ago. Detail, costume, milieu- all great stuff. We need more like it! Hawkyns

A day or two ago, someone posted (lost the thread, dammit) about your rig, being the knife and fid, that was a part of every sailor's kit and was attached by lanyards to the belt. Well, I've done a lot of looking through archeological finds from the sea, and I've yet to find a fid from the GAoP or earlier. Plenty of knives of various types, many with the wood hilt intact. Also, a good number of knife sheaths, but nothing that indicates a fid worn on the belt. So the question, ladies and gentlemen, is this: was that rig worn in period or is it a 19th century idea? Any body have any hard documentation? Hawkyns

Sinclair sabre http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN or this pikeman's hanger http://www.swordsmiths.co.uk/Data/Pages/17...17Century_8.htm Hawkyns

OK, my two penn'orth. I will agree with the concept of getting better weapons when available, or replacing worn out clothing with loot in better repair HOWEVER!!! Sailors clothing developed out of practical neccesity. It was utilitarian in every sense. So even though you may be upgrading, you would still be wearing the same TYPE of clothing. Yes, you could probably find breeches and boots on some ship. But I want to see you climb rigging in those knee breeches and boots. Do make sure your safety line is fastened. That rapier may be a better steel and fancier than a cutlass, but it's useless in a deck melee. That fancy cocked hat will be overside in a 20 knot wind. This is not aimed at the fantasy pirates. They know what they're doing and they have their reasons. This is aimed at those who want to be authentic but will use one-off references and stretched logic to attempt to justify something thatis not logical or practical. Whatever variances you make in the kit, if you claim to be authentic, what you are wearing has to be capable of letting you do your job on board. As they say on the trekking board, "Dare to be Common'. Hawkyns

Depends where you play, Jill. If all you play is faire and festival, you're probably right. Work the museum circuit and it's a completely different crowd. Gwen and I do some fantasy, kit mostly based on the artist Clyde Caldwell's work. Lots of skimpy costumes and eye candy. On t'other hand, other than the eye candy part, I don't feel I get much out of those events. I feel kind of out of place at faire, can't drop the authentic mindset. Festivals are another iffy proposition, never was much for street theater. Give me a ship, a musket rack or a cannon or two and I can talk for hours. I've had some amazing discussions of history with the punters ranging from religious arguments to military strategy to daily life. Everybody works best with a specific audience. I work best with the preofessor, the amateur historian or the researcher scholar. To each their own. Hawkyns

Well, to answer GoF's question, that was not my progression. I started 29 years ago in the SCA. Did that for about 4 years, then got hooked up with a group that was doing WWII and joined the Brit Commandos. Those guys are real stich counters. So from there, any re-enacting I've done has been based on the ideas I learned in the WWII HRS. I pretty much hang around the period 1470-1740, mostly involved with ships and cannon. Crotchety? Don't know that I'd use that term, but curmudgeon has been chucked about a bit. If someone's making an effort and wanting to learn, I'll do whatever I can to help them. If someone comes in who obviously has no clue and starts to tell me what I should be wearing... well, let's just say I don't suffer fools. Reasoned debate and historical discourse is fine. I've spent many a late night discussing various interpetations of archeological finds. As for the public, I think I talk more to them now than I did in my early days. Bear in mind that much of what I do is at historical sites and ships, so I'm effectively a living museum exhibit. I'm expected to talk to the punters and explain what I'm doing, how the drill works, what they are really seeing. A full livng history weekend and I'm pretty damn hoarse by Sunday night. Hawkyns

Well, I'm with Foxe on this one, but I don't suppose that's any surprise. Being authentic has allowed me to sail on several ships as master gunner, allowed me to command full broadsides, get into the backrooms of museums and play in lots of places marked 'private- staff only'. The more accurate I can be, the more it gives me credentials with museum directors and the more willing they are to trust me with ships, living history villages, powder magazines and the like. If you are doing Faire, that's one thing. I tend to do maybe one or two a year and generally look like a deckhand, next to the squadrons of admirals, commodores, pirate chieftains and the like. If that's your game, have fun. For those who don't have other opportunities, it may be your best shot to dress hollywood. Faire is a different game, comprised of fantasy, flirting, playing with the punters, etc. Flirting doesn't work for me or get me the girls, as I tend to reek of gunsmoke, tobbaco smoke, salt water and bilges, but it has it's other compensations. So I'll stay with the historically accurate. Yeah, I take flak over it. No, I don't care. Oh, thanks for the compliment, Rhumba. As another Brit, I aprreciate it. Hawkyns

I have a shirt made from 10 oz hemp canvas and it is great. bit stiff at first, but getting softer with every rainstorm or washing. I wouldn't wax the breeches myself. I know a chap who beeswaxed a shirt to make a waterproof, using beeswax per some 18th c documentation. He got a bit near the campfire one night and it went up in flames. he was able to put it out before he was seriously burned, but he was lucky. On ship it might be OK, but around a campfire/cigarettes/tiki torches/etc., I wouldn't risk it. Hawkyns

Hard to tell from the picture. About 10 years ago, MR/Windlass had a shell guard cutlass that had what appears to be the same blade. I bought one. Now, it rarely sees the light of day because it's bloody heavy. I say this as a swordsman who is used to heavy basket hilts and combat blunts. That cutlass has a 1/4 inch spine and is point heavy. The basket hilt is relatively thin and doesn't give enough weight to counter balance. If the weapons have not changed over the years, I would not cxonsider this a decent blade to practice combat skills. As a pell sword it might be OK, it would certainly build your forearms and wrists. My take is that it would be too slow and too much mass for doing any serious swordplay. Hawkyns

Get Together (Try to Love One Another) The Youngbloods (68? 69?) Hawkyns

Ordering black powder can be tricky. There are a number of state and federal regs in place. Most distributors will not ship less than 25 pounds, so some groups get together and order in bulk. For most purposes, it's best to check the yellow pages for gunshops where you live and find one that sells black powder. Hawkyns

Lazarus- check out these guys. Great quality, decent prices. The oil cloth coat is great on a stormy deck. http://www.flyingcanoetraders.com/content/...alogue.asp?ID=4 Hawkyns

It's a bastardisation of the English west country accent. There is some basis for it, as many of the seadogs, privateers, and pirates, like Drake, came from the Devon and Cornwall. Oh, arr? is the west country equivalent of Oh yes? When I lived in England, before the internet, televison, and telephones were in every house, regional accents still existed and I knew people who spoke like that. They're not so common now, but still exist in some parts. Newton took it, embellished it, and made it the 'Standard Pirate Language'. BS, really because I will guarantee that the pirates from Robin Hood's Bay on the East Yorkshire coast never spoke like that. Devon yes, Yorkshire, not bloody likely! Hawkyns

Well. I prefer the baldric, but I also do earlier period so it is fine. The baldric does stay around into the mid 18th c though, check out military uniforms of the period. The swordbelt is more civilian. The baldric depends a lot on where you wear it. I like it slung so that the hilt is slightly behind my hipbone, with the blade slung at an angle across and behind me. From illustrations this seems to be the common way to wear it for my period. It is more comfortable, doesn't get in the way, and is still an easy draw. Hawkyns

For those interested in the technique discussion, I've started another thread in Twill. Hawkyns

Do any more of you reprobate denizens of this board attend Fantasy Fest in Key West? It's the wild Halloween celebration sponsored by Captain Morgan Rum. Gwen and I went last year and will be going agin this. Sort of like Mardi Gras, but not so classy and refined. We were in the parade last year and saw quite a few sights as we flung beads right and left. Hawkyns

Blackmore's Knight- Fires at Midnight.

Yeah, I prefer the late Elizabethan/early Jacobean period, though I will actully stretch my re-enacting from about 1470 to 1763. Not much written for the cutlass in that period. It's why I prefer Silver. It's a combat form, not a salle excersize for bored noblemen. I find many of the broadsword techniques translate well to the cutlass. Now that there's a good translation to I-33, I want to look at that, too. Certainly the shorter broadsword and buckler from the illustrations seem reasonable. Never had the opportunity to meet Terry, unfortunately. I've met some of the Tower Armouries lads when they've come over to the Higgins Armoury classes, but that's it. I've found that at 3 foot range there's little call for static parries. Keep moving or get hit is about it. Plus, we frequently have a left hand something- buckler, dagger, or belaying pin. Every move is a counter to a riposte to a parry.....you get the idea. I've been told it has a somewhat Japanese look to occasionally. Hawkyns

Hawkyns; You're preaching to the choir my friend. I am also Director of the Historical Maritime Combat Assoc, and spend much of my time training with live steel work, full contact in a variety of weapons; cutlass, knife, tomahawk, sabre and boarding pike. I started on the choreography end of things 17 years ago and find it comes in handy when approached to do demos for schools,as "pirates" without the protection used in one-on-one bouting. In much of it we don't bother to pull the blows, we just fight a hair less forceful than if we were fighting for our lives. I was addressing the mock-fight scenarios and in no way intended it to apply to historical study. However, I hope you'd agree that historical study is best done in the class-type setting and not in full costume in front of patrons and children. People who don't do what you and I do have a whole diferent view of pirate era fighting. They want the romance, the swashbuckling, the showmanship; and in most cases from my experience historical combat in protective gear, stopping to explain things as you go doesn't appeal to the general public. As to the flat vs edge parries; it's been worn thin on several other lists so I won't dwell on it overmuch here. Its my experience that the static flat parries are useless, taking time away from angulation of the blade on the return strike. Instead of static parries, I teach either re-directing parries, glancing parries (which cause the incoming blade to glance away, thus freeing yours up for riposte) or avoiding the other weapon altogether. These are always accompanied by traverses where possible, or stunted versions of inquartatas. My cutlass classes are all fought with students inside an 8 foot circle,(replicating close quarter, limited moblity combat). The blades more often than not must then be used evasively and often do not touch at all during the brief engagement. The short length of a cutlass creates the ability to use it as a long knife, sometimes even with two hands. My work with both Navaja and Bowie make it easy to use the cutlass without it ever contacting the other weapon. This, historically speaking (yet at this point theoretical) would explaing the lack of damage to actual antique pieces. This is really oversymplifying things; it's take several pages to explain my thoughts on the subject in any great detail. May I also say that's its a pleasure to read your posts on the topic and I look forward to other discussions in the future. -------------------- Monterey Jack ******************************************* Great! We're both on the same page, then. I've done multiple kinds of sword combat from a bit of Ken Jutsu, to Escrima, through SCA combat (heavy and light) and on into the more historical stuff. Right now, I'm working with a couple of students. We've been working from Terry Brown's "English Martial Arts' with a heavy dose of Silver thrown in. Using re-enactment blunts, 3/4 speed, no head thrusts, and no armour, for the most part. I like Silver, as it works well with the close quarters combat and translates well to cutlass. I just picked up a new book "Master of Defence- The Works of George Silver" by Paul Wagner. Still working my way through it, but its about 250 pages of commentary and comparison (the comparison to Musahi is VERY interesting) and then the original text in the back. This may well become my new training manual, much though I like Terry's work. As far as the flat parry is concerned, it works for me. At close range, 2-3 feet, that fast parry with the blade in the near vertical position is a natural for the flat. The blade is already in poition for the cut, without having to twist the wrist quickly in a very short space and time. The riposte is a natural and just flows, whether in a head, body, or leg cut. Hawkyns

Jack, that's all fine if all you are doing is stage combat. Some of us do other things that are now coming to be recognised as Western Martial Arts. This is not a choreographed fight. You learn a series of moves and counters, just like any martial art. You practice the drills and work the sequences. Then, you go on to free bouting. It is strong combat, and much of the training concerns how to pull a blow at the last minute, but there is heavy blade contact and it is hard on blades. That is why I like Armour Class blades, which are a silicon-manganese steel and designed for that kind of contact. Blade edges are thick and rounded- nothing even close to sharp. It protects skin and other blades. There is a long fought argument about whether you should take parries on the side of the blade to minimise edge damage. It makes sense and of the many original blades I've seen, few of them were saw-toothed, so I have to believe that there was a way of doing this. I do and I teach my students the same technique. I still need to take a file to my edges and remove burrs, but they don't get serious chips or V's and I fight my blades quite hard.\ Hawkyns

I picked up one of Darkwood's shell guard cutlasses at Pennsic. WOW!!! Great balance, well made, and beautiful. I got one with a fighting blunt blade, so I'm looking forward to trying it out on my cadets and crew. By sheer chance, it matches exactly the live steel piece I've been carrying for years. Same lenght, weight, curve and balance. Even fits the same scabbard. This is the sixth blade I've boaught from Scott. I cou;d not be happier with it. Hawkyns

Where to start? Well, no holds barred says to me that you want more than fencing blades. Foils, epees, and sabres break when subjected to stresses that they weren't designed for, and they leave nassssty pointy sharp bits. American Fencing supply has double canelure blades that work for some things, though they tend to chew edges pretty quick. Starfire was making a series of blades that was working well for combat, but I don't know if they still are. There's Armour Class in Scotland- these are the best of the best, but you'll pay and you'll wait. Masks are another story. USFA rated masks are designed to stop a 25kilo thrust. A stiff blade with an adult weight moving behind it is far more than that. They're OK for early training and slow work, but if you're going full speed full contact, they will give you a false sense of security. My crew prefers to go without masks and trains to avoid head and neck shots. You will learn to void properly and not depend on the mask to protect you. I wouldn't worry about padding. A 4oz leather jerkin, good cowhide gauntlets, and maybe some heavy cuffs to protect the wrist bones. If you do decide to go with head shots, then a steel gorget to protect the soft part of the throat and the back of the neck is a good idea. It's like any martial art. the more armour you have, the more you rely on it and the less you consider your technique. Pain is a great teacher. Just don't take it to the point of disabling. Hawkyns

Kass does have the ECW 1640's coat pattern available. http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patte...ldierscoat.html Hawkyns