Hawkyns

Tull- Hot Night in Budapest Hawkyns :angry:

Wired and frustrated. We're short staffed at work today and too many people are calling to make reservations. Meanwhile, I'm really wired for putting the kit together for a 2nd century Roman Auxilliary, and I really want to be searching sources on the web. And checking in here, of course... Hawkyns

Fyre and Sworde Songs of the Border Reivers. Maddy Prior and friends. Wonderful music, especially if you can understand the lyrics. Hawkyns

For period descriptions of clothing, style and dress of the lower sort in the 18th century, try this: http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/subjects/runaways/ This is invaluable and in constant use among the 18th C hardcore folks. Also, as you read down you will find several of them stole boats and have some maritime connections. Hawkyns

Hurricane- black is a difficult colour and hard to justify. First, it was an expensive dye in period, and not readily available. Second, black dyes using period materials are very difficult to set and fade very quickly. Depending on the bases of the dyes, they will fade to purplish red or brown, or grey, or even yellow with just a few weeks in strong sunlight. Modern anniline dyes are far too strong and colour fast in comparison to period dyes. True black wool, woven from the fleece of black sheep, is even a bit browner than pure black, and rare at that. Striped fabric- I have no problem with striped fabric, my concern is more with the width of the stripes. Rather than the 1 inch stripe so beloved of pirate costumes, I believe it is more the thin stripe of pillow ticking. That is a common weave through the entire period and a cheap fabric at that. Hawkyns

I really wish Seller went into more detail about the operation of the guns and less about the math involved. And most of the manuals are the same. Here's another from the HMS Richmond website. It identifies it as an 18th century gunners manual, but doesn't list author and date. http://hmsrichmond.org/images/Gun%20exercise.pdf This also specifies crows and handspikes. Now, this next comment is based on observation of illustrations, and reading between a lot of lines, but I don't have written specific documentation on it. Handspikes are long wooden levers with a wedge shaped head, wrapped in steel. Basically, a wedge on the end of a long shaft. That I can prove from several primary source documents. What appears to be the crow is a long shaft with a metal fork on the end, similar to the back side of a claw hammer, only larger. I have references to these also as fork levers from Rudyard's "Course of Artillery" from 1791. Hawkyns

More In "A Treatise of Artillery", John Muller, 1780, the author quotes the list of stores for the army in 1747. He lists 15 iron crows and 148 handspikes. In "The Gunner's Glasse", William Eldred, 1646 the author says "...let your two assistants one on the right side, the other at the left, be redy with their levers to presse up the Peece to discharge the Coyne..." In his list of stores, he refers only to 'levers'. I checked 3 other early manuals-Bournes "The Art of Shooting in Great Ordnaunce", Smith's "The Art of Gunnery", and Norton's "The Gunner's Dialogue", but none of them make mention of either. Hawkyns

"The Sea Gunner", John Seller, 1691 states that both crows and handspikes are neccesary to the operation of the guns, but gives no specifics. "A Treatise of Artillery", Le Blond, 1746 mentions neither. "The Artillerist's Companion", T. Fortune, 1778 mentions traversing handspikes, but not crows. These are the 3 manuals I have to hand, I'll check the others later. Hawkyns

Nah, that was almost mainstream. I mean movies like David Carradine's "Warrior and the Sorceress" or Richard Moll, Lee Horsely, and David Lynch in the "The Sword and the Sorcerer". And let's not forget the Deathstalker series. Hawkyns

Well, lessee... Zulu (first 'grownup' movie I ever saw. I was 7. this may explain a lot ) The Wild Geese Cromwell The Three Musketeers (the real one from the 70's, not that Disney cr*p) The Four Musketeers LoTR Gladiator King Arthur (last summer's version) The Last Valley Shakespeare in Love Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves Cutthroat Island Plunket and Maclean Brotherhood of the Wolf The Full Monty Rob Roy The Great Escape The Great Race (agreed, Christine. PUSH THE BUTTON, MAX!!) and a particular penchant for schlock sword and sorcery flicks There are more, but that'll do for now. Hawkyns

I rarely, if ever, get down near the bog at night, unless I'm on security patrol. Closest I get during the day is on the way to the swimming hole. And drinking at Pennsic? Not really, not anymore. A couple of ciders of an evening, perhaps but that's it. Being staff and in charge of the powder mag and guns doesn't give much opportunity to party. Camping on the battlefield keeps me near the merchants, staff areas, Royal camps and Coopertown, as well as convenient to the battery and castle. By the end of the day, it's just too damn far to walk anywhere else. Hawkyns

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/f...ilm/4263227.stm Apparently, not all is well. Hawkyns

Gwen's, on the 19th. Who else will be there? Hawkyns

Lots of variables. First, cannon have to be treated with more respect than small arms. Follow a certain procedure or you will be killed or injured and your ship damaged. So, going at it half cocked without a clue does not square with the idea of men who make their living with weapons. That said, I train all my crews to all positions so that if one person is missing, anyone can take over. I do believe that was military training, also. Also, gunners tend to get very possesive of their guns. since black powder pieces all have their quirks, each gun captain should know his own gun. So my estimation would be that each gun would have a crew, but only the captain would necessarily keep the same position. This is a hypothesis, based on 17th and 18th c military practice and what little research I have on pirate ship gunnery. Master gunners are definately on the crew lists, and gunners were in demand when other ships were taken. All that said, most pirate ships would have small pieces, 3s and 4s maybe, with lots of murderers and deck sweepers. Not nearly the same amount of crew needed. I can safely work a 3 with 2 people, and a long 4 with 3. Murderers are a one man operation. Not sure if this answers the question. to be honest, there are just too many variable to come up with a definitive answer. Hawkyns

Agreed. That's why I think the monmouth is probably the most generic of the knit hats. There's also this option http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?c...products_id=254 In an engraving or woodcut, it would be hard to tell the difference from a knitted cap. Wasn't aware of the Thrum references in Johnson. Must have missed those, but it's been a while since I read it. The Peter the Great still seems a bit OOP, to me. I've seen a lot of references to similar hats earlier in the century, though. One of the speculations is that a number of the hats from the mid17th C that look like the high crowned puritan hats may actually be knitted versions. Hawkyns

I've got one of Kirstie's Peter the Greats. Lovely hat, but I'd think a bit out of date for GAoP. I also have one of Practical Goose's thrums http://www.pyracy.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=514 that I do wear for 18th C. I'm not sure about it. I've seen some references in the period, but I'm not sure I trust them. It's a wonderful hat in foul weather, though. The Monmouth would seem to be the most neutral choice. They are definitely documented to 18th C and you'll get far fewer comment about 'that thing on your head'. Hawkyns

I came at this from the other direction. I was doing Elizabethan living history and was at a couple of sites with ships. Since I was a gunner, they asked me to help out with the ships' guns. That was it and I was hooked. Got into the pyracy later as another venue to work ships' guns. Quite honestly, I don't care which flag I serve under, Tudor, Royalist, Black, Yankee, RN, or whatever, as long as I get to serve the guns. Pyracy is fun, and gives rein to a lot of options, but that is why I see this as living history, rather than some great pirate fantasy. It's a dance, running the guns, serving the piece, doing it on a pitching deck without losing tools overside and while staying out of the way of the sailing crew. Add firing small arms and getting to fight with swords, and it's a great weekend. Sure, I do landbased stuff, but I'm normally next to the weapons racks, explaining how they all work. Hawkyns "cannon slut"

Details, please? When where, space still available? Contact number? Thank you!! Hawkyns

For those of you who do the early side of things, late 16th early 17th C, there is a School of the Musketeer being held in Philadelphia, April 29 to May 1. http://home.att.net/~trmarr/ This is sponsored by a couple of groups that are very active in the 17th C re-enactment community and is a combined education and recruiting event. It will be hands on with powder but no ball. There will also be sword, pike and cannon classes, and a 17th century civilian track for those not so interested in the military arts. Contact the organiser or ask me if you have questions. It has been quite successful in past years and will be again. Come on down! Hawkyns

Since I actually shoot my pistols and muskets, here is what I take to a muster where I'll be firing. Small flask for priming powder Larger flask or horn for main powder Whisk and pick spare flints small turnscrew and handforged pliers copper oil bottle tow worm and tow for cleaning ball screw for removing stuck balls linen rag The above is for blank firing. For a live shoot I'll add: Ball for the weapons I'll be shooting Swan shot small shot (.30 cal) Except for the flasks, all this goes in the cartridge box on the belt. There are a couple of period woodcuts showing pirates with belly boxes, so I see no problem with this. There is other evidence that pirates carried belly boxes. In the powder box I'll keep papers for making cartridge, a pair of 'legs' for removing stuck rammers, small brass funnel for filling the flasks, and modern screwdriver and borelight. I don't bother with a mandrel, I wrap cartridge on the end of the rammer. I generally use a large leaf or a bit of grass for wadding. If I'm on ship, then I'll use a bit of paper. Would all this be carried at all times? I don't know. I know that all this takes up relatively little room and there are plenty of documents showing soldiers and the like would carry this gear. On the other hand, there are the accounts of pirates carrying mutiple pistols so they didn't have to reload. Personal preference? Weapons professionals vs armed thugs? Availability of kit? All these and more besides are variables that would affect the answer. Since I can document that soldiers would carry such things, I have no problem justifying other weapons professionals carrying them. I also find it easier to keep everything in one place so I don't have to search for things or repack for every event. Hawkyns

Chucking my two penn'orth in here. I'm going to agree with Foxe, but that's no surprise to any of you, right? There is a lot of documentation out there, for many, many things. Some things were in vogue the entire period, some things floated in and out, and some things were specific to a certain class, like seamen. The chore is to figure out what *your* persona would have been wearing, carrying, or doing, at a certain point in history. THAT is where the individuality comes. For instance, when I'm wearing my Elizabethan rig, it would look different from Foxe's, even though we are both Elizabethan Englishmen. His is from a higher strata of society in southern England. From his pictures, it's quite a showy outfit, and very nicely made. I'm from the yeoman class in the north of England. Grey coarse wool, blue wool statute cap, rough leather jack, and hemp shirt. I carry a well made but simple hanger, rather than a rapier. I have a small chest with few possessions, those that would be within the pocket of a gunner on a privateer's ship. There are plenty of ways to personalise your kit and stay within the bounds of documented practice. The chore is to do the research. My best calcualtion is that I spend 10-15 hours reading, researching, and constructing, for every hour that I spend in kit at an event. For me, the research and pursuit of the persona is as much reward as putting on the kit and serving the guns or participating in a good brawl. I have boxes of kit that have been used in the past but are no longer valid, due to more research. There is plenty of room for fantasy pirates. The difference is the venue. If I'm at a renfaire or pirate gathering, the fantasy kit predominates and I am in the minority. That's fine, the punters come to be entertained and to indulge *their* fantasies. When I'm on a ship or at a historic site, however, I expect everyone to be as authentic as possible. Anything else would be an insult to the site and the organisers. Then, doing it historically becomes a duty to those who have gone before, to tell their story as truthfully as possible. As far as mindset goes, we can never be 100%. We have not their experiences and emotions to draw on. We can, however, do the best we can by reading diaries and journals, read the books of period authors, sing the songs they sang, drop our lifestyle down to their level as much as possible. The more we can experience of what remains of their world, the better clue we have to their mindset. That requires putting aside the 21st c. Scrap your ideas of comfort and convenience, scrap your modern ideas of freedom and individuality, accept the strictures of the society you wish to emulate. It's bloody hard, uncomfortable, and sometimes depressing, but the result is worth it. Hawkyns

Ahoy the Deck- I think this is begining to drift a bit far off the wind. I have no problem with the new angle, I've done the authentic vs, fantasy thread a few times myself. But let's keep this thread on earrings and take the other discussion to a new thread. Thanks, Guys. :) Hawkyns Moderator

T'weren't me. I've heard of horsehair for stuffing and padding things, but not woven as cloth. I talked to a spinner and they weren't too impressed with the idea of being able to spin the stuff, it being too coarse and stiff. They made the point that it was a limited commodity, too, since the only hair that would be long enough would be the mane and tail, unless the horse was *really* shaggy. I've got a couple of horsehides on the rack now waiting for projects. I'm thinking of making some of my Roman kit (marching pack, scutum straps, etc.) from it. I wouldn't kill an animal for just the hide or tail but when the horse is dead, why waste the bits? Horsehair just strikes me as way too prickly dor clothing sorts of things. Hawkyns

Thanks for the good thoughts. Yeah, there is room for all of us and all styles. I do have respect for those who can fence collegiate or USFA styles, it's just not for me. Good luck with your search for a fencing club. I'm looking for a dojo to learn Bo but nothing in my area. What I'd really like is to hook up with the Company of Maisters, but they are in England. Terry Brown's group, if you've heard of them. http://www.maisters.demon.co.uk/index.htm I like the idea of being able to handle more than just a cutlass or a rapier. Staff work is so universal, but has so many variants. Any traveler carried a staff, in all countries from England to Japan. The offensive and defensive options intrigue me and I need to learn more. Hawkyns

For me, winning *always* depends on adrenaline. It's back to the mindset issue. For me, picking up a blade and going up against an opponent, means taking my life in my hands and seeing if I'm better than the other guy. Fencing for points, with rules and right of way has nothing to do with a life or death match. Just as I get into character for living history events, so do I get into character for a fight. I like to use terrain, either guarding my back with something, or backing my opponent into someplace where he has no maneuvering room. I also like to circle and come in on the angles, not from straight ahead. Anything to break up the fight, do something unexpected, make it more real. SCA rapier combat has a few too many rules for my taste, but it is still the best place to get lots of opponents. Truth to tell, though, I've occasionally forgotten where I am and used forbidden techniques. Like the time I used my basket hilt to punch my opponents mask with the Kingdom marshals and the other OGR;s watching. Fortunately, they know what I do and how long I've been doing it and they cut me some slack Hawkyns