Gentleman of Fortune

This is quite interesting folks... And since I am smack dab in the middle of the holidays, I don't have much time to write.... only read your posts. (of course, its killing me not to chime in on every post! Seems that we have two distinct threads going. 1) where did pirates/sailors of the GAoP sail and what were their influences and 2) Port Royals part in pirate history, Pre-Earthquake and Post-Earthquake. Since the clothing issue is only lightly touched on... I will sit most of this out and cheer from the sidelines. And By the way Fitzwell... your doing a good job for a newbie... I think you will like it here! Hurricane.... Thanks for all the info on the Islands... I really never looked into the PLACES as much as the clothing and equipment. Really good stuff Thanks! Pat.... Getting much sewing done? You are the Buccaneer man, you know. Foxe.... what can I say besides Happy New year and when do the Ed Foxe Action figures hit the stores so I can start collecting all 20! Happy new year to all of my Twill and Plunder Brethren! GoF

Hee Hee! You guys are killing me! Thanks for the laugh.... and happy new year! GoF

Well... how soon can you be ready? Since there are a lot of views and only 1 "taker" (and a possible) I don't mind waiting too much. Maybe a $25 dollar savings aint that much to push folks over the edge. GoF

I only think it is a cop out if you have no basis in historical fact. If you can make the case without direct proof but with good evidence, I don't think that its a cop out, its just really the best information until proven otherwise. Like ear rings. We know that ear rings may have been fashionable before the GAoP, evidenced by some pictures and documents stating this. We also know that in the late 18th and 19th centuries they may have been fashionable for sailors to wear. We also know that during the GAoP, ear rings were not in fashion and there is almost no credible evidence to support ear rings. The cop out that bugs me the most is the "pirate lore" cop out. This is the one the goes something like "everybody knows that pirates wore earings". The real basis for the lore is that 19th century sailors wore ear rings, and almost all Hollywood pirates wear ear rings. But despite the fact that pre 1750 ear ring use is scant, some how it makes it into pirate lore. Most of the things that are tied to our childhood/hollywood ideal of piracy are the ones that get the most cop outs. I mean, hey, bucket boots are cool, but just because they are cool doesn't mean they are justified for use aboard ship in the GAoP. This is a really tough subject for Pirates in GAoP. Pirates were the terrorist of their times to be caught, tried and executed. No body in 1718 cared what pirates wore unless it was to identify them at trial. 300 years later we are trying to put the pieces of a puzzle together. Can you imagine, in the year 2306, our decendents might be trying to get their Al Qaeda kit together and have a discussion forum as to what color the explosives vest should be and weather they were velcro'd or tied shut with laces! GoF

This group buy thing might work out nicely. I am talking to Dixie to see if they will offer a Group Discount. Normally these things are $225 + shipping and other sites sell them from $275-$350. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info....roducts_id=9272 If we could get them for $200 + shipping, who would be interested? GoF

Part of the start up cost involve buying/having made about 32 shoe lasts. This is because he will make shoe sizes 7-14 in D and EEE widths (including half sizes). So I says to myself... "hey now, we can save some money buy not offering bizzarre shoes sizes. I mean, what re-enactor has a size 14 foot!" And then Captain Sawney comes walking in the door! If this shoe deal happens, you will get your 14s. You better order 2 pair though incase it doesn't happen again! GoF

Deadeye: I was asking the same thing.... so don't feel too bad. The cost for the shoes reflect an increase in the costs for him to have the lasts and dies made. He will offer many sizes of shoes, 7-14 including half sizes in D widths and EEE widths (we can get any widths, but these are the most common) and that is 64 lasts (32 pairs) lasts. His supplier has raised prices since the other shoes were made. Patrick I understand the money issue... and Christmas is not the best time to try and justify $135 bucks for shoes. I would imagine that the timing is a matter of how many "serious" commitments I can collect. A lot of it comes down to the last thing (by the way, for folks who don't know what I am talking about, a last is a wooden "mold" that the shoe is built onto). His supplier of last is a commercial venture as well, that has a minimum order of 50. We can't start any of the production run shoes until all the lasts are recived. We are going to work on the sample now so that I can get a shoe quickly so that folks will have an idea of what they will be getting. Once he gets the orders and the 1/2 deposit, he will get the lasts made and start production. His estimate is 8 weeks from the deposit for the initial batch (I am not sure how many that is yet) and then about 6 pairs per month after that. I will post the information as I get it, but if you have questions, let me know. I am guessing that with re-enactors as slow to commit and pay as they are, if we could get this started by February, we would be doing good. GoF

At this point, i have sent him pictures of period shoes including the one from the Whydah wreck see below... sexy ain't it.... I am waiting for more pictures and possible diagrams from the Whydah museum. The goal is to provide the ONLY replica GAoP shoe... The process is this. If you are even slightly interested, let me know. But if you are 90% sure you would like to order, then really let me know (go to my website and click the comments link) He is going to work up a sample from our specifications. He will send it to me and I will post pictures for comment. We will need half upfront as, quoting from one of his e-mails and (which answeres deadeyes' question) After the example is made and approved, its just a matter of getting 30 willing to spend $135. If you know of anyone who might be interested, pass on the word and have them e-mail me. He estimates for time:

I by no means speak for the group, but I am kind of the resident ass h*le when it comes to stuff like this. You may be a member of the forum of long standing, and just changed your user name to match that of your new store and I apologize if that is the case, but I am assuming that you are brand new to this list and are just looking for an opportunity to sell your wares. Now I understand that this is your new business, and you are exicted to get it off that ground. We appreciate the link to the store and I am sure we will all check it out. BUT, you don't have to provide a link to every item in your store. Especially if the topic is something like "Barbarian Sword". Thanks for the heads up about your store though, and I wish you luck. GoF

I have contacted a shoe manufacturer (in Canada) who can make a Straight lasted early 18th Century shoe. His claim is that he can make a Sarah Juniper Shoe at a C&D Jarnagin price. If you would like to see some shoes from these makers, go HERE These shoes would be mostly machine stitched but vegetable tan leather and all the correct details for the period. Cost would be $135 (without buckles) and would be paid half upfront and half at delivery. we would need 30 orders to move ahead.... anyone interested? GoF

I read a description of some GAoP (or at least around the GAoP) clothing and recall that they used blanket stitch in their description. I have used both while making clothes but prefer the button hole stitch myself. GoF

Just curious as to which item caught your eye? GoF

I'd just like to say, $125 for a human hair wig is Outstanding. I am not sure what "style" you want but here is another human hair wig for comparison. http://www.wigfx.co.nz/human-hair-wigs.htm The ones from Extreme wig can be found at a lot of places on the net. Just type in "French King Wig" in google... ah hell just look here http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=French...e&lmode=unknown I am in the processing of adding a wig page to my site... I'll let you know when its up. GoF

Coastie I think Foxe has done exensive research into the wills of seamen which, apparently have been pretty extensive. Foxe, have you seen anything that would indicate a long justaucorps style of coat in your search? GoF

Wow midnight... that is great to know. I ordered my buttons from them.... gosh 8-10 years ago and they were made differently. If they are 5/8" with a cast post, then they are great buttons... can you send me a picture? GoF

Don't want this to fall off of our RADAR I have applied for Beta testing and have my fingers crossed. I have been chiming in on their forum as well. There seem to be a lot of "groups" forming already.... maybe we shoud think about one from the pub? GoF

I love this stuff..... So what is this telling us? As Foxe and others have touched on, it doesn't say that he ordered six men to "dress" in ordinary jackets, he is just ordering 6 men, in ordinary jackets to get into the boat. We could interpret this as, he ordered 6 of the 50 men that were wearing ASC clothing to get into the boat while 3 men, who didn't normally wear gentlemen's clothing, DRESSED in gentlemen's clothing and got into the boat to appear as they were merchants. He only uses the words "dressed" when referring to the Master, the Doctor and Davis. Also, it says that they dressed as gentlemen/merchants. When looking at English societity of the 18th Century, there is a low class, middle class (which includes the merchants) and an upper class. I hope we can agree that each one of these classes had a certain dress to them as a courtier would definatley dress differently than a middle class merchant. So it seems that the captain, master and Doctor did not dress as gentlemen all the time as they had to go put on these clothes. Good eye by the way for picking that out and posting it. If you can find others, please post them. PS I think I read somewhere where a similar ruse was pulled off by sailors dressing as women. Does anyone else remeber reading that? If true, I have to wonder what they were doing with all those womens clothes on board. I mean, I have heard of rum, sodomy and the lash but have never heard cross dressing added to the mix. GoF

Mick The number before the slash symbol (/) refers to the linen thread size. The number after the slash symbol refers to the number of ply that make up the thread. That is, how many strands are twisted together. Since most sewing today is done with cotton, synthetic, or a cotton covered synthetic, linen thread is almost exclusively used nowadays for embroidery. But since we are re-creating 18th century garmnets, linen thread is what we need. When searching for threads, we can usually find two types of thread; a 2 ply (Swedish linen and Belgian linen) or 3 ply thread (Londonderry linen). I would think that either is ok for our purposes, though a 3 ply thread will generally be stronger than a 2 ply. If you have medium weight linen for your shirt, the 50/3 should be ok. Hope this helps. GoF

Sorry folks..... missed the question I would say 35/2 for heavy linen/canvas/hemp, 60/2 for medium weight fabrics and maybe 100/2 for fine linen handkerchief weight cloth. Usually "waxed" linen thread is used for sewing leather. That being said, you still will need to "wax" your thread to make it easier to sew. Any sewing store (even walmart in their sewing section) should have a little round of beeswax. You pull your thread over this to keep it from bunching up as you sew. Did that answer your question? By the way, if you need a source http://www.woodedhamlet.com/threads_pins_n...wing_thread.htm GoF

a labor of love indeed... But my favorite bit is typing pirate re-enacting into your search engine of choice and having gentlemenoffortune.com come up in the top 3! Thanks for the kind words GoF

Josh... Thanks for Chiming in. We talked about it in other posts and we went into it in GREAT depth at the Piratebrethren's yahoo group about 8 months ago. I think that in Johnson’s work, if you go to the Reade Bonny section (if its not there, it is from some victims court testimony against Reade and Bonny) you will find a description of Reade and Bonny while committing acts of piracy... Wait… its also in Life Among the Pirates (David Cordingly) pg80 she went on to say that the reason that she (Dorothy) believed Bonny and Reade were women at that time was due to the "largeness of their breast" and NOT any particular clothing items that they had. Besides the fact that this documents that pirates wore scarves/kerchiefs on their heads its interesting to point out (again) that Bonny and Reade were posing as men... disguising themselves as to not be noticed as women. So their disguise would then be something that would not make them stand out from the rest of the crew. So it would be a good assumption that their choice of clothing would be what a regular pirate/sailor would wear. I will go further with my not so humble opinions to say that the kerchief was a clothing item with a purpose, not a fashion item statement. It was used to protect the head from the sun and absorb sweat. So if a pirate was on shore, there was probably no need to be wearing a head scarf unless he was doing “piratey” things on shore (hauling/moving goods, labor, hunting etc.) If the jolly sailor/pirate was wenching/ going to get drunk, I doubt that they would wear a head scarf to the pub/whore house. Kind of like I don't expect to see a carpenter at a bar with his tool belt around his waist. GoF

Its not that I necesarily have a love affair with wool bunting, its just that it is known to be a correct flag material of the time (like silk). I am so glad you posted the info though.... becuase a lot of people believe that it HAS to be BLACK to be authentic. My thinking is that black silk would be more difficult to come by as it would be expensive and not really an "in" color to have clothing made into. So I think that a black pirate flag would be really a purpose built item that would not necessarily be ready available. Now, maybe after a few sucessful pirating adventures, a stop in a "friendly" port, might provide the quantity of black silk to make a period sized flag (which would be large), but the chances of finding bolts of BLACK silk on a sugar, foodstuffs, or logwood trading ship might not be that great. But yellow, light blue, red, and pastel colors that were in fashion might be available. This may explain why there were so many flags NOT black. Well, we got lots of yellow silk captain... lets make our flag out of that. As well as explaining why a number of flags were modified national flags. The ship they were sailing on was bound to have a number of flags on board for communication anyway, and the National Flag was bound to be one of them. Again, speculation might mean that pirate flags were made from the canibalization of other flags (again, explaining why there were lots of NON-black flags. Of course, its all speculation since none survive, but I think we have enough clues to construct an appropriate period pirate flag if we follow our heads instead of our hearts (which seems to be difficult for most pirate re-enactors). To me, a black pirate flag is so trite ( if not passe') that I would rather have something else anyway. No offense to all you black pirate flag fans. GoF

Thats a good question. There are some good photos of buttons that were recovered from GAoP period wrecks at this site. http://www.artifacts.org/Fleetpage.htm For the post style button. I think that for our purposes, the buttons should be similar to this one (from the link above) These could be pewter as well. Of course, period pewter has lead in it which gives it a slightly different look then the lead free pewter used today. I have also seen period buttons of the style pictured above with a casting seam on the back. Most of the buttons that are sold by GGG, (G Gedney Godwin, not the German Goo Girls) Townsend and others are really later style (F&I or Rev War buttons). They are a little larger (3/4" to 1") and have their posts ( a wire loop) soldered onto the back. The admiralty slops contracts call for tin (pewter) or brass buttons, and I have not read any reference to a 2/4 hole button. That being said, I am sure a sailor used what he had if he needed buttons. Actually, it might be cool to have a few pewter buttons with some brass to represent replaced buttons. GoF

That is an interesting piece... thanks for posting. hmmmm..... checked or stiped? Ticking? wool? More questions. GoF

I am kind of curious what is meant by a woman's frock coat. Women had clothing that was similar to mens' in some regard (Kass has posting a picture of her in her womens riding/hunting outfit somewhere on these pages...) But if you mean a spacific "woman's" justaucorps, I am not so sure. Now, it is established that women dressed as men as a disguise, but the point is that they wanted to "hide" their identity (the fact that they were women) so they were wearing men's clothing to pass themselves off as a man. We could go round and around on the appropriateness of a justaucorps for a woman pertending to be a sailor, but if she wants to be a "pirate", wearing mens clothing, or clothing that would be appropriate for a man/sailor would be fine. But if your purpose is to dress her up as a port side doxy, wench, harlot, then women's clothing of the period would be appropriate. I think there are several threads around here that discuss everything form corsetts and stays to petticoats and mantuas. What specific look did you have in mind? GoF