jendobyns

Don't forget hygiene was an issue with shaving beards, too. Later military doctrines recommended shaving twice a week (Cuthbertson?) when not on campaign (this was to control those pesky lice again), it may have been a long established practice. Perhaps you'd find the information mixed in with other rules about ship board life?

Not sure about making it one glass at a time, but the site where I used to work had a Flip glass in it's collection. It was pretty large.

Ah, talked to someone who was with the Appin group today, she said everyone was very impressed and folks are talking about how they can do something as impressive as the building! I think next year's MTA will be a must see!

These are absolutely awesome pics!

I don't remember why I didn't mention it earlier, the 18C Woman list had a bunch of resources like this, and there is at least one pic of someone with reproduction baskets like this packed on a horse (along with other stuff going to market) somewhere. Sadly (and this may be why I didn't go into it at the time) 18CWoman yahoo group was ditched by the owner and access to the files was lost. And someone there had located where she could have them made, too.

Let us know how the baskets work out! I may have other folks who are interested in them if they work.

And if your father wants to take this up at his age, more power to him!

THis is cool! I am working on an impression of a chicken crier - so I have a bit of information on this subject! First off, I have a good bit of chicken coop reference here:

http://www.ivanhenry...et_vendors.html

I purchased some fake chickens here:

http://www.wildlifet...om/chickens.htm

They look great!

As for the pens, I sourced a basket maker on Etsy who is excited to make them! I'll post pics when I'm done. Did I mention this impression is for my 75 year old father who wants to try reenactments!?

I wasn't able to find anything on this by searching through old posts, but I am curious. Under the wigs, which I understand were common around the time, what would a mariner/pirate's hair style have been like? I picture a rather unkempt group of individuals, but I can also see how longer hair would have been impractical on board a ship.

I tend to doubt that many pirates went about with a set of dreads like some depictions which have become popular. Ha!

Another less pressing question I ponder. What is a good web site for authentic depictions of sailors and pirates? I'm having a hard time trying to pin one down.

Thanks to you all!

Regarding hair under wigs: most likely shorn quite short, or shaved, iirc. It helps keep down the vermin (lice and such). You could check with Betty Myers, Wigmaker of Williamsburg, for more accurate information. I believe she is on Facebook. Since CW tradesmen provide items for people at Jamestown and beyond, she probably has way more information than you need on the subject.

Jen

Congratulations all 'round! So you managed to top a WWI dugout complete with gramophone! Awesome! Can't wait for the pics!

Wonderful pics! I wish I had one of my husband's puzzled face when he saw the one of the sign for the fountain. Priceless!

Welcome aboard missy! You've fallen in with a great crowd!

Dang, dude, I think you just missed one that a friend was selling off. Will double check and see if it's gone or not. Price range?

FWIW, this is what I'm seeing:

Blue and red fur lined (edged) dressing gown/banyans. Shape and other details can vary from loose (as in that first pic of the seated gentleman in brown and big wig) to tailored more closely to the body (like long versions of the jacket of the man on the far left carrying the tray--but I think that closely tailored style is much later in the 18C, maybe 1780's or so). Both red and blue garments look like much less formal attire, probably wool, fulled and perhaps brushed.

It's impossible to tell what the lining is on the blue garment. Note there is no fur on the sleeve like there is on the red. Possibly faced with the same blue wool for the turn backs on cuffs. No visible closures. The red version appears to be fur edged and silk lined (see the sheen on the lining?).

Head coverings vary here, and I have not seen a hat quite like this first one on a man. It looks very much like a woman's later period bonnet. Will try to look into that further. Otherwise, it looks like he's wearing a cap underneath it. Possibly one similar to the one on the man carrying the tray but not folded up. The turban is a very stylish thing, fashions a la Turk were popular leisure attire at one point and seem to have varying interpretations on the original Turkish garments.

And that Turkish influence might also be reflected in the cross-over waistcoat the first gentleman is wearing. It appears to be a sleeved waistcoat, too, what an interesting combination of features! Perhaps a nod to the subject's other travels? HIs look is very exotic.

Yep, there is fur, but if it's just along the edges, that will give the appearance of richness without the expense (or bulk) of a full fur lining. Fabric is the major expense, so what shows is most important, linings are often much cheaper materials. The silk lining could be for added warmth without bulk.

Love the look, would wonder about wearing a sword in casual clothes like that for anything but a portrait, though.

Jen

Here is perhaps well know pic

I am going to analyse this circa 1730 painting of merchant captain and his look because it is fun.

While this pic proves that even captain would dress practical clothing there some notes that I make. When I first saw this pic I I thought that " that is a plain looking captain but that is not the case.

- note the coat it is not justakorps but it is fur edged and actully to me it seems to be bit snobby... fur is after all not very cheap

- He holds an Elton quadrant and stands against a background of rocks. The prominence given to the experimental quadrant may indicate that the sitter is Elton himself or someone closely associated with him, possibly Captain Walter Hoxton. He was captain of the ship 'Baltimore' and tested Elton's quadrant on a voyage from the Thames to Maryland and back in 1730 (note that his clothing seems to be mande for cold weather and it can get cold in north atlantic where he sailed. So slaver captain in West-Indies would use bit lighther gear)

- He is young and thus maybe his wealth is only accumulating so perhaps he looks a little plain. Compare him with that earlier pic of EIC captain

-Hat is a fur cap with odd looking peak. While it is not perhaps good looking it is not the cheapest one and it is bit bigger than the common sailors's fur caps.

- a Sahs and a sword are quite pretty looking. Some website says that that is hanger but to me it looks like small sword...

- His head is bald. I believe that reason to that is that he is not using his wig on the sea. I have seen some pics of gentleman withouth wigs from this period and the look is the same.

this other pic also gives you impression that even captain would not use wig while at sea. Note that both captains use a scarf/ turban type thing to cover his bald head.

So perhaps that first captain is not plain after all.

The latter pic is from 1740s.

I have a pair that was modified with rubber soles at a shoe repair place. They just added the rubber sole to the existing leather. Not sure how it was done, but it turned out very well, can't really see the rubber unless you see the bottom of my shoes. This was a concession I had to make after several "thud" experiences. I've had the shoes for over a decade and they have worn well, the rubber hasn't peeled or anything.

Will do!

Well, I'd hoped to get down there to play tourist, but won't make it down there until April. But I'd like to talk to a couple of folks from the area, could use some advice. Ping me off list, please?

Hope the weekend is blessed by great weather and lots of visitors!

Well, I'm kind of confused. When I logged on, I got a message an error occurred. But I'm logged on in spite of the error message. Sigh.

As annoying as this Error Message is - it's important to mention them.

Though right now I'm prone to write it off as an annoying but simple hiccup – I suspect it’s a momentary lapse syncing authorization keys. . .or we could blame it on Mission just because.

In any case, I’ll check the error logs and see if I can find out anything.

Well, Mission isn't the only one who's had it happen and ignored it, this is perhaps the third time for me, maybe? Once, I'll ignore as I might have messed up, twice, well, I still might have done something dumb and I'll be extra careful next time, a third time, though, and it looks like a trend. Considering I'm one of those people programmers dislike because the errors always show up for them, I tend to wait a bit first.

Well, I'm kind of confused. When I logged on, I got a message an error occurred. But I'm logged on in spite of the error message. Sigh.

As some of you may have noticed, the Pub has been on and offline recently - I apologize.

After months ( if not longer ) of wrestling with legacy software issues, I finally broke down, wiped the system clean and basically did a fresh reinstall.

Needless to say it hasn’t gone as smooth as I would have liked, but it rarely does when weeding out bad code and unneeded directories that are still referenced by the messageboard software we use.

If anyone has any problems please let me know.

Where would we be without you?

Yes, Jen, that is most enlightening. I'm not really looking for help with anything, I was just throwing a topic out there to generate some discussion. (If Michael wasn't helping me with my clothes, who knows what I would be wearing? Probably stuff bought at Ren Faires... )

I particularly like your statement, "There are people now days who insist on being up with the current trends well into their old age, and others who couldn't care less even in their youth."

I think we tend to focus too narrowly at times on certain styles and wondered if there wouldn't be variances in styles then as there are now. I don't think our psychology is all that different now from what it was at that time, although our experiences certainly are. It also occurs to me that clothing made today may not last as long, although I have no proof for that. It may just be that they were more willing (due to necessity and upbringing) to patch and re-patch and re-use old material as you say.

Sorry 'bout that, wasn't meaning "help" literally.

Definitely agree that we can tend to focus too narrowly sometimes.

Oh, another thing I forgot to mention, is the turning of clothing. When one side got too worn, clothing would be re-made turning the inside of the fabric out, giving it a fresher face. Considering how much of the clothing was lined, this makes a lot of sense and would give a second life to fabric that we would tend to discard.

Clothing back then wasn't laundered as frequently, and some things were just brushed and spot cleaned rather than washed. And clothing that was washed wasn't washed by machine, but by hand, something that is only required for the most delicate of items in our modern times (Ok, I'm not going to consider dry cleaning here). So it's wearable life probably was longer. Then there are the qualities of wool and linen fibers. Much more durable than cotton and some silks, as long as bugs don't get to it (a problem a good housekeeper would know to avoid). I have been told that a lot of our linen is now processed with machines that also process cotton. The linen is chopped to fit the machines, thus loosing a lot of the properties that go into a long staple fiber. I have twenty year old shifts that have lasted longer than my son's five year old shirts, so there may be something to that. Really makes it hard to make comparisons to our reenacting clothing-vs-extant garments in some ways.

Well, in an instance of one well off man (either a Carter or Lee of early Virginia), who could afford pretty much anything he desired, he had coats cut in the fashion of his youth in his inventory when he died, which was well into his 80's iirc. If you can contact N. Hurst Tailor via FB he can give you more details. The photos on Neal's page are well worth the look, he has some amazing stuff.

There are people now days who insist on being up with the current trends well into their old age, and others who couldn't care less even in their youth. Same goes for back then. If you look in period family group portraits that contain several generations you could see variations in fashion between the oldest and youngest in the group. And there are instances where fashionable clothing is altered to make adjustments to accommodate reduced mobility in infirmity (George III's waistcoat at Kew, for example). Also garments in a fabric that was fashionable for a previous generation being re-made into something new.

Basically, there is a huge range of possibilities here. Fabric was expensive and labor was cheap. Clothing was recycled, repurposed (fashionable gown fabric being used to line vestment cloaks), sold on, passed down, inherited, and so on. It all depends on the individual, their tastes and needs. Mother's beautiful bizarre silk gown? It may become a waistcoat, jacket or lining sometime after she is done with it. But as a garment, it's still in circulation well after the fabric is fashionable. Grandfather is still wearing suits made like he wore when he got married, because he pays the tailor to make them that way (no slave to modern off-the-shelf fashion changes here). Mother still wears her old fashioned stays, even though the line of fashion has changed. Etc. Unlike today's clothing, where what is available in the stores pretty much dictates what you wear, people weren't forced to change their style if they didn't wish to do so. In fact if anything, it was harder to stay on top of trends if you didn't have the coin to do so or weren't clever with a needle and thread.

As for court clothing, there are rules that govern what can be worn. Which explains some really odd looking gowns of the regency period that have big hoops under them--the rule specifying the use of hoops didn't keep up with fashion. And cut steel buttons (a late 18C thing, very sparkly) on men's suits that still show up on some garments even fairly recently (court or livery, I don't remember which right now).

So does that help?

Thanks. The "look inside" bit from Amazon was interesting, but not quite helpful enough. He seems to have a very different method than the period receipts I have seen so far. Interesting. I'll be getting the book. *G*

And I can totally understand why Arrack punch would be popular, having tried it myself. Very nice indeed!

Oh, and Fish House Punch is supposed to be older than the references mentioned. I'll have to check with my source to see how early his are. But as he's an academic, and quite PC, I trust his judgement.

As I was out walking this morning, musing on this and that I got to thinking about the way people dress today, particularly when you compare older folks with younger ones. If you were re-enacting this era in some distant time, you might look at a picture of a rapper and decide that people wore their pants on their hips, possibly with their boxers poking out the top and offensive t-shirts. The aged rarely dress like this (that I've noticed) and seem often to resort to comfortable clothes, mostly non-descript slacks, sweaters and collared shirts.

Which all leads me to wonder... wouldn't there have been variences in clothing amongst folks of different ages and stations in life? (By which I do not mean different classes, which we have pretty well established to be the case.) As folks got older, I would think they would tend to worry less about what they congnoscienti are wearing in court and more about what works best and wears easiest. A lot of the drawings I've seen seem to focus on the younger, higher classes. But what might a regular, older, less-fashion conscious person wear?

So, are you asking if you have a well worn 1700 coat, and the event date is 1720, and you are 40, could you have a coat you had worn in your 20's?

Or are you asking if people had things made in the fashion of their youth because it's what they like and are comfortable wearing?

The answer to either is yes. As long as the clothing from your younger days is still intact, that is.

There is evidence in inventories (of a prominent early VA gentleman, for example) and art work for this.

Ah, it must be punch season My husband and I are bottling up the batch of Fish House Punch we made for this year's events. Last year's batch took about 3 months to properly mellow so we played with it a bit this time. I'll have to try the Brandy punch, too.

Is there a recipe for Arrack Punch in this book? I'm on the lookout for a good one to experiment with to add to the collection.

Ah... they just get stuck on all the damn buttons....

Ah... they just get stuck on all the damn buttons....

That too!

One thing to consider regarding the sash and how tightly it's knotted and where it sits. Slipping could be partially a factor of what type of fiber make up the sash and the coat. Some fabrics stick to one another (think about your scarf and winter coat or sweater). Depending on the finish of the fabric as well, these sashes might not be so slippery when rubbing up against the coat. The sashes on the extreme right and left of the pictures also look to be twisted slightly before being tied, which could also be a factor. These gentlemen may also have walked quite differently than we do, more toe-heel than heel-toe (think barefoot running technique), which would make their gait less bouncy, so the sash may slip less while walking, too. (The benefit of having dancing/fencing masters as fits their social status. )

Nope, neither. Although you have ties and aiglets, which would do the same thing as suspenders. Basically the breeches got tied to the doublet, but I'm not sure how that worked when the doublet turned into longer waistcoats and coats. Don't remember seeing any ties or evidence of such on the interiors of those longer garments, but could have missed them. Captain Sterling would know, though.

Thanks, Sterling, those are great pics!

Does the forum have a specific location for pictures used for reference like these? Or are they all scattered between different conversations?