jendobyns

I don't have pics from any of the ones I have attended previously, too busy taking notes. The one I posted about that will be in March hasn't happened yet, but I can try to remember the camera if I can attend.

So is it just me, or does pic. #12 look like he has a light sabre in his hand? Cool trick of the light, in any case *G* Mistress D.

Man, you just come up with the best stuff! Thanks! I could get lost in those documents for hours! Looks like a tierce is a type of cask, according to this definition: A cask whose content is one third of a pipe; that is, forty-two wine gallons; also, a liquid measure of forty-two wine, or thirty-five imperial, gallons. 2. A cask larger than a barrel, and smaller than a hogshead or a puncheon, in which salt provisions, rice, etc, are packed for shipment. From the OED online (I love my library service, with my card number they let me access stuff like the OED Times Online and loads of other stuff at home for free =o) 4. An old measure of capacity equivalent to one third of a pipe (usually 42 gallons old wine measure, but varying for different commodities: cf. PIPEn.2 2); also a cask or vessel holding this quantity, usually of wine, but also of various kinds of provisions or other goods (e.g. beef, pork, salmon, coffee, honey, sugar, tallow, tobacco); also such a cask with its contents. 1531 Charterparty in R. G. Marsden Sel. Pl. Crt. Admir. 36 Accounttyng..ij pipes for a ton iiij hoggeshedds for a ton and vj tercys for a ton. 1531-2 Act 23 Hen. VIII, c. 7 §5 The butte, tonne, pype..teers, barrell or rondlett. 1538 ELYOT Addit., Hemicadia, vesselles callyd a tierce, halfe a hoggesheed. 1588 Wills & Inv. N.C. (Surtees) II. 180, ix tearces of honeye, at 16l. per tonne, 24l. 1707 Lond. Gaz. No. 4337/4 On Wednesday..will be exposed to Sale..about 400 Hogsheads and 10 Tierces of..French Claret. 1800 COLQUHOUN Comm. Thames iii. 136 Beef and Pork..contained in..Tierces and Barrels. 1825 Gentl. Mag. XCV. I. 216 [Coffee berries] closely packed in tierces for exportation. <A name=50252595q26>1886 Pall Mall G. 19 June 6/1 The tobacco..comes from abroad..in hogsheads..in what are called tierces (a smaller wooden barrel), and in bales. Well that's useful! Thanks! The OED was my first choice, but I don't have access like you do. Need to fix that! Interesting to see that the volume measured can vary depending on the commodity.

Awesome! Glad you found it. Thanks!

Man, you just come up with the best stuff! Thanks! I could get lost in those documents for hours! Looks like a tierce is a type of cask, according to this definition: A cask whose content is one third of a pipe; that is, forty-two wine gallons; also, a liquid measure of forty-two wine, or thirty-five imperial, gallons. 2. A cask larger than a barrel, and smaller than a hogshead or a puncheon, in which salt provisions, rice, etc, are packed for shipment.

Merhaba, and welcome to the pub Gio!

I'm looking primarily for ships leaving from the areas ten degrees north or south of the equator, in the new world, which would have been carrying cocoa beans, roasted nibs or perhaps even chocolate that had been processed into cakes (although that last is unlikely). I'd like to see how the stuff was transported from it's point of origin to Europe and the colonies and what form it was in when that was done. I have some information that indicates it was transported as beans to be roasted and ground at it's destination, but no paperwork showing it as ship's cargo. It would be nice to demonstrate Ship X listing so many bags, barrels or crates of cocoa beans for a specific voyage. While ships bearing cocoa are my specific target, any listings of cargo are always welcome. I love primary sources! It's how one finds olives being imported in Philadelphia, or worsted tape coming from Europe.

In that case, for fun you might like to check out the Medieval Encampments yahoo group photos. There are all sorts of disguises for modern stuff on there. For example, someone designed a camp kitchen "box" which can hide a small coleman stove and a dish pan side by side, as well as the tanks and some storage space, in a version of an aumbry cupboard. It's not as portable as the patrol box, but it's kinda cool because it looks like a piece of furniture. There's lots of potential for making something that looks period, but isn't. Your idea of hiding it in a sea chest might be the simplest of those, you could have the top section for the stove, and hide the tanks underneath on one side, with storage on the other. Hmm, now you have me thinking wether or not I could retro-fit any of my existing boxes to do that. I have the stove and tanks. Just what I need, another project! (Not!) My personal tendency is to go towards period camp items, not because I'm a period snob, but because I do events at sites that are fairly strict a lot of the time, and I don't have space to keep a separate set of non-period camp stuff. After enough years of that, period mode sort of becomes the default. Doesn't mean I don't admire the ingenuity of people who want to make camp work for them with conveniences. In fact, I rather enjoy seeing what people can come up with. Mistress D.

Has anyone here found any good links for sites with ship's manifests that list the cargo, not just the people, on ships that were captured or at least shipping goods during the GaoP? I'm looking for primary source material for researching a program I'd like to work on for events. And while I know there were things besides gold, gems, silks and spices on those ships, it would be nice to see them listed. So far all I'm finding is genaeology oriented web sites, which hasn't helped much. Mistress Dobyns

I love those camp boxes, they're so practical, but I don't own one because I can't document it. And while I haven't seen any plans that match that style that are in period, there are sources on either side of the GaoP which show field kitchen equipment packed in boxes of various shapes and sizes (George Washington's "mess kit" and the Scappi book come to mind). If you locate a period reference, with pictures, for a BS style camp box, please let us know! I'll share if I find one, too. Then again, I have seen period furniture, case pieces up on legs, that might be "confiscated" from a home and pressed into service in a pirate camp kitchen. But those pieces would have been rather fine to drag out to camp for PiP. Mistress Dobyns

<br><br>Wow, Carol, just, wow!<div><br></div><div>Mistress D.</div>

Ok, doing a bit more reading in Jeremy Farrell's _Socks & Stockings_, which has a primarily English focus: In 1688-9, tailor Robert Graham charged for making silk drawers and "sowing fine cotton stockings to them" for William III. Pantyhose? :-) in 1698, Celia Finnes noted spinning cotton and knitting it into stockings. Most likely hand knit. 1699, a household inventory mentions a cotton wheel (spinning wheel) Farrell uses the term "stripes" for vertical and "banded" for horizontal. Galerie des Modes shows 1" vertical stripes in 1787, and getting narrower in the 90s. Ribbed stockings in 1786 were also described as "striped." Farrell suggests the vertical rib and horizontal band combined might be "diced" stockings, which are mentioned in 1763 — a clothing description that includes a frock suit. I presume this to mean it was not Scottish diced hose. It's from a description; he does not cite any images or extant examples from that era. No info on whether this was done with colors or textures. Farrell goes on to say banded hose became popular in the 1790s among "Jessamies," English counterparts to the French Incroyables, and cites a watercolor, "Le Petit Coblentz," which you can see here: http://www.allposter...s_i1738175_.htm Moving along to the extant stockings, we see bands for women as early as a selection shown at the International Exhibition of 1862. From the Great Exhibition of 1851, we see men's socks (short socks, not stockings) with bands. Welcome to the pub! Glad you finally found it and could share this useful info! Perhaps you'd like to introduce yourself to the rest of the folks here? Mistress D.

And if you're allergic to lanolin, as some people are, you can rinse them in water with some hair conditioner in it (yep, the stuff you get in the grocery store next to the shampoo). This softens the wool, and is used after the fulling process by some weavers to give the woolen product (socks, scarves, whatever) a softer hand. If you're not allergic to your conditioner, you shouldn't react to it on the stockings. Linsey-woolsey is a fairly scratchy material on it's own, so some tender parts (like the back of your knees where the garter holds them in place) may just not be happy with it being there after a while. But after you've softened the linen part by wearing them a lot, they may become more comfortable. There's a reason linsey-woolsey is not upper class fabric *G* Good luck! Mistress D.

Yes indeed. It comes from the records of the High Court of Admiralty (HCA) in the National Archives at Kew. HCA 1/17 is the records of indictments and subsequent proceedings filed at the High Court of Admiralty, 1713-1724. The lists come from f[olio] 163 of that file. Thank you for that info! Well now I"m in trouble. I started looking around in the Archives web site and found, under the Black and Asian History exhibit, information about the voyages of the Duke and Dutchess, and facsimile copies of the letters of marque. I need to step away from the computer now or I could spend the rest of the day looking at this site! Thank goodness I could print that out for later. *G* I guess I'll have to start saving up for that trip. I wonder how much it'd cost to spend a year doing nothing but research? Hmm, gotta go buy that lottery ticket.... Mistress D. whose favorite buried treasure is found in archives and archaeology sites

Yes indeed. It comes from the records of the High Court of Admiralty (HCA) in the National Archives at Kew. HCA 1/17 is the records of indictments and subsequent proceedings filed at the High Court of Admiralty, 1713-1724. The lists come from f[olio] 163 of that file. Thank you! Yet another reason to cross that ocean! Mistress D.

What can I say? Two hundred years of the bits and pieces that fill out your personna's "look", starting with 1650. They say there should be more details by Sept 1., but that's already past, so best check back periodically here: http://www.colonialw...itute_about.cfm These symposiums are high quality and a great opportunity for networking with like-minded folks. The only complaint I've ever had about one is that there's so much information, it's impossible to take enough notes! Mistress D. March 13-16 Costume Accessories: Head to Toe In March of 2011, The Colonial Williamsburg Foundation will host a symposium on the subject of costume accessories. The symposium serves as a complement to an exhibit in the Dewitt Wallace Decorative Arts Museum entitled Fashion Accessories from Head to Toe. The exhibit will feature Williamsburg's collection of men's and women's hats, gloves, purses, handkerchiefs, pockets, shoes, stockings, jewelry, and wigs from about 1650-1850. These objects will be arranged mostly chronologically along with large-scale reproductions of period images showing similar pieces being used. Invited scholars from the United States, Canada, and England will present 10 lectures over two and one-half days; a day of hands-on workshops and related behind-the-scenes tours will follow. This symposium is intended to explore the production, consumption, and historic value of these varied objects of personal adornment. While the study of historic dress tends to begin with the examination of changing cut, silhouette, textile, and decoration, it is the details of costume accessories that are often the most reflective of time, place, and person. Accessories are generally precious, ephemeral, or both. Many incorporate the newest fashions and trends more quickly than the clothing that they accompany, yet certain pieces are classics used by successive generations. They are frequently the product of the most current technologies and employ a bewildering range of materials. Costume accessories become mirrors of social and economic, ethnic and cultural, public and personal concerns. They are intimate; they are fascinating. When viewed with an historian's eye they are vastly revealing and invaluable details in the story of dress and adornment. Program details should be posted by September 1, 2010.

Cool! My sons (20 and 15) were totally impressed. You may have a recruit or two for next year *G* Mistress D.

info from my stocking researcher regarding the cotton stockings: Deborah Pulliam said that cotton (regular old plant cotton) was around being knit into stockings by the 1720s. Unfortunately I don't have a citation beyond that. It was at one time believed that the Brewster stocking was that early, but now there are ideas it may be later. The Brewster Stocking is cotton, per Deborah's exam with an electron microscope. The Gest stockings in the Chester County Historical Society collection, and featured in "Fitting and Proper" are from 1765, and knit from cotton. The Pennsylvnia Gazette has a stolen goods ad from 1734 that includes cotton stockings. According to Shire Album 119 "Framework Knitting" p. 10 "The first pair of cotton stockings seems to have been made in Nottingham in 1730, but it was not until improvements in cotton-spinning techniques later in the century enabled a stronger thread to be made that cotton began to supersede silk for lighter hose." So perhaps, if you read this the way I do, the early cotton stockings _might_ be made out of plant based cotton, but wouldn't be fine yarn like the silk ones. My stocking oriented friend also surfed around this list and ran across the thread on striped stockings from back in 2005. Says they aren't historically accurate for the period, but hey, they're comfy and look cool, and historic accuracy isn't everyone's priority. I'll try to dig up the date on horizontally striped stockings for those who care, though, and put it up on that part of the forum. I think that horse got beaten to a pulp on another list I'm on. Mistress D.

Foxe, could you expand on the little cryptic bit of info at the bottom of the inventory, and tell us what book or collection of records this came from? Thanks! Mistress D.

LOL! Were they buc... er... nevermind. Just nevermind. Incidentally, is there any way of knowing if the stockings listed as cotton actually cotton, as we know it today? As in, made from the actual cotton plant? Or was this term being used to describe another type of fabric? Because I keep hearing that as an explanation for "cotton" items being listed in pre-cotton-gin records. Again, going from Montgomery, cotton was used to refer to various types of woolen goods from the 1400's on. Manchester cotton, kendal cotton, even Welsh cottons, were wool, and apparently rather coarse woolen goods at that. The term may also apply to the process of raising the nap (frizing or cottoning) or the texture of having a nap or down. At this particular point in time use of the term cotton is problematic. Woolen forms of cotton do seem to me like a more economical and durable choice than plant based cotton for stockings. Indian and Egyptian cottons still aren't cheap yet, iirc. If you would like, I can forward this question to someone I know who has done extensive research on period stockings. She may be able to shed more light on this. Mistress D.

Hi, I'm not sure about how they treated street musicians, and someone else has answered the question about wether or not the rebec is OK for your place and time. The why of certain instruments, as far as wether or not women were supposed to play them, basically comes down to what was deemed appropriate for a "lady". A violin distorts the woman's form, and was therefore considered unattractive. Any instrument that needed to be held between the legs to play it was considered suggestive. An instrument that was blown was also considered unattractive because one puffs out the cheeks and distorts the face (recorder, trumpet). This info comes from a lecture I attended many years ago, and it might be appropriate to examine it further, as new information might have come to light since then. You may want to email David and Ginger Hildebrand, who have done a lot of research on period music, and see what they say. They're nice folks. http://www.colonialmusic.org/d&gstud.htm Hope this helps! Mistress Dobyns

Additional info for my answer to Silas Thatcher's question: I just found an entry for towels on one of the Port Royal probate inventories. 9 new ozenbrig towells at 00 05 00 (so that's 5 shillings) The link for that particular inventory is here: http://nautarch.tamu.edu/portroyal/archives/Inventories/Vol1/1-190.htm Ozenbrib=oznabrig=osnaburg: Coarse, unbleached linen or hempen cloth first made in Osnabruck, Germany. It was commonly used for trousers, sacking, and bagging. (Montgomery, Textiles in America) Nothing soft and fuzzy about this stuff ;-) The entry also goes on to say that the modern "osnaburg" found in fabric stores is a cotton muslin with dark flecks added to create the appearance of unbleached muslin. Flannel, again according to Montgomery: Made of woolen yarn "slightly twisted in the spinning, and of open texture, the object in view being to have the cloth soft and spongy, without regard to strength...All the sorts are occasionally dyed, bleached by the steam of burning sulphur, in order to improve their whiteness" (Beck) Hope this has been of use! Mistress D.

The source was there, listed, but you missed it. And the soldiers' pay is still there but another page, you'll see the link once you open it. I perceive my pay in kind. Namely, in gaining potential crew for my games listed in my signature - both Age of Sail RPGs. (Yes, who hears me would say I did it only interested... No, I didn't. But it was one among the links in our ressource pages I compiled.) Thanks! There was definitely more info there than I was capable of filtering at the time *L* Mistress D, herder of cats

Elena, That is a great list. Can you cite the source? I'd like to share it with my group, and we're always on the lookout for good references. I've "snipped" the post you sent to cut down on clutter in the reply, but I'm interested in the whole thing *G* Mistress Dobyns