Tartan Jack

For the sake of usage: (I know it is from the MOVIE "Rob Roy," BUT Peter MacDonald, one of the premier kilt historians was the one who came up with the costumes. As far as movies go, it is pretty good.) Just to show what the relevant STYLE of sporran would look like in an period-appropriate dressed highlander. Note also, It is HUNG from his BELT by a long strap, NOT a "sporran strap"!!!

For Disney, where there is money . . . there is a way. (At least that is my impression. Those that work for the MOU$E, please feel free to correct me.) (I MISS the days of Walt, when values and quality drove the company, rather than what ever makes the most $$$$- )

"Picts" is a tongue-in-cheek variation I picked up many, many moons ago. With my real interest in early Scottish (Albanach-> "of Alba" the old name for Scotland in the "native" dialect) history, it just cracks me up and people STILL get that I mean "pictures." I do separate my silliness from my serious study of history. The devolpment of the kilt from the belted plaid is VERY interesting and are the many questions on the Picts and how the interacted with the Scots, as the Scots come over from Ireland and "invaded" the Picts' land. Now, back to topic.

I vote Will Turner takes up the NAME Davy Jones, much like Princess Bride and the "Dread Pirate Roberts" (itself a reference to the 3 year career of Black Bart Roberts).

Thanks Bess, It was a friend I know through Scot-related things. We were talking about the "artistic process" and how ideas develop. He insisted that Disney had toyed with the idea of making Sparrow a kilt-wearing Scot. I have NEVER seen one nor HEARD of it, except from him. I looked and didn't see anything on-line, nor in Art of POTC. SO, I thought I would ask on here. If ANYONE knew one way or another, it would be here. Thanks!!!!

Of couse, this is me in my Carolina kilt (and a special made sporran) Let's say, I don't take it TOO seriously. And more "normal" pictures: I DON"T mean the above sporrans as GAoP usage, BUT for modern "casual" wear (t-shirts to tweed and tie).

A friend of mine insists that he once saw an early concept drawing of Jack Sparrow as a kilt clad Scotsman. First, I am wondering IF there is such a drawing. Assuming above is TRUE- Second, IF I can get my hands on a copy of it. Waiting impatiently,

Somehow, I missed the continuation of my question. The style itself, with the PLAIN lid is actually rather "authentic" and similar in design to the one found described in the appendices of J. Charles Thompson's "So Your Gonna Wear the Kilt." It is also the basic design used by a number of other kilt sporran makers of whom I am aware. The PRICE ($65) for the basic is EXCELLENT! The "look" is VERY similar to portraits from the late 1600s, 1700s and early 1800s. "READ" the paintings, as Bob Martin likes to say. For the kilts, ya'll may find 2 kilt forums I frequent to be interesting: http://www.kiltsrock.com/ http://www.xmarksthescot.com/ (I happen to be a mod on the former) They are rather different on demeanor, with the first being SIGNIFICANTLY less politically correct (more like some of the threads on this forum). It was on the second that someone posted pics of these sporrans and I thought, "Those look VERY familiar." Now, to save some money for one, or a couple . . . Kilts are NOT costumes, though some costumes call for them. IF you are creating a specific period, then you NEED to look at CONTEMPORARY depictions for styles. Most "hair" sporrans come from a later period than the ones depicted above. Like I said, the PLAIN version is VERY "authentic" for what a typical 17th and 18th century highlander would have worn. The embosed flaps are fine for modern kilt wearing, whether using a modern kilt or a "traditional" tartan one. REMEMBER: the EMBOSSED flaps are NOT "authentic," as in common for the time when kilts were commonly worn. Pirates wouldn't have put the skull and bones on them either. My authority: Kiltmaker ("4 yard" box-pleat kilts) and minor kilt/belted plaid/tartan-historian. I am MUCH more proficient with kilts, tartans, Scottish history, and the like than with pirates and ships. For your info: When The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine wrote his book "The Kilt & How to Wear It" in 1901, he describes at LENGTH the RECENT excessivness of the 8 yard kilts and says he is a FAN of the NEW-FANGLED pleating of the kilt so the back pattern matches the front. SO, the 8-yard knife pleat to sett was NEW in 1901 (NOT centuries old). The OLD way of doing it was a 4 yard box pleat to stripe (and Erskine says as much in this book). For GOOD kilt (and Scottish) history info: http://albanach.org/index.htm (Check out the articles and blog-> NOT my site, by a friends) I rather like the sporrans and the way they combine my primary and secondary interests in a nicely made, elegant, and attractive simple manner.

Yet one MORE reason a kilt is BETTER to wear!

Thanks for the link Wages! It seems that it could be a pretty cool book, but personally this one has peeked my interest more: the Art of Pirates of the Caribbean :) http://www.amazon.com/Art-Pirates-Caribbea...3496745-4446048 The Art one is on its way to me . . . as is Art of Star Wars, Episode 3.

DING! DING! DING! And We have a WINNER!!! (I was longing on make that point . . .) Oddly, most sailors couldn't swim. Now, HOW ODD is that??

FOUND IT!!!! http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1423106547/re...&pf_rd_i=507846 "The Pirate Guidelines: A Book for Those Who Desire to Keep to the Code and Live a Pirate's Life" (Pirates of the Caribbean) (Paperback) by Joshamee Gibbs (Looks like Mr. Gibbs wrote the Code )

WW2, STILL modern in the context that the "samuari" period effectively ended in the 1870s, or so (NOT actually any of my main areas of interest, but the basis of "The Last Samuari"). The mythologizing was in full swing by 1900, once the "real thing" was dead and no longer a threat. Actually much like piracy as well. The emperor and other leaders utilized bushido and other lore, applied to a MUCH larger context than it had been in the REAL past, to formulate the "modern" Japanese "character" that was so implanted by WW2. (sorry for any misspellings, I tend to so that on these forums and have a problem remembering HOW to spell "samuari")

WHAT!!!!!! You mean a katana can't chop a claymore in twain????? I think the katana thing has more to do with the modern mythologizing of Japanese history and legend than anything historical. (I am curious as to Hand's original intent . . . However, this thread has been VERY interesting.)

After seeing WHAT ELSE you've done . . . I'd be surprised if you couldn't just get an appropriate-for-application katana and mod the hilt . . . (I am also now curious as to how a katana fits into the "Patrick Hand Mythos")

Now the real question is: Are they proper for their period? By that . . . I assume "their period" is GAoP (early 1700s)-> 1713-1725.

He is right.

As for historic associations: http://www.bonaventure.org.uk/ed/flags.htm (Ed Foxe's site) In short, MOST of the famous "pirate flags" have a dubious historical connection with their attribution. ALSO, elsewhere in this Pop section, it was mentioned that at one time the "Pirate Lords" were to be based on "historic" GAoP pirates. As said above, Billy Bones developed a number of "concepts" and Gore chose the ones he liked, for artistic reasons. So, don't read to much into which flags are on which ship. It is all part of the "fun" of the film.

Thanks!!! So, Billy, just HOW many flags did you ACTUALLY make "full size?"

(shrug) Well.... I suppose the internet could know more then the writers. I asked The guys and that was what they told me. She said nothing. Maybe the answer is somewhere half way between..... I'll let them know they are getting old and cannot remeember what they wrote.

These were linked on a kilt forum: http://www.pyrate.org/sporrans.html It is familiar to me, but can't remember who makes them. Any form of response is fine, I just have a few questions from some to shy to ask.

Has anyone seen/have a pic of Jack Sparrow's flag at the end of At World's End? I remember it is based on the "Avery" Flag with the sparrow from Jack's tattoo in red. I am looking for a grap/pic/image of the flag used, so I can see the details (head straight or cocked back/bandana/wrap all the way around or like Jack's/etc). My google searches have turned up NOTHING.

so does mine look ok? i havent seen any others with an anchor so i have my doubts.i have made minor changes to the rope. Well . . . There are 3 different approaches for that question: 1. Use only historically PROVEN flags, as seen: http://www.bonaventure.org.uk/ed/flags.htm -Produces VERY accurate Pirate ensigns (Ed uses a simple skull as a "death's head," while some argue that a "death's head" included crossed bones as well, much like on a poison bottle.) 2. Use the PARAMETERS of historical references: -A. LOOK at what is KNOWN and OBSERVE contextual contemporary DESCRIPTIONS of the pirate ensigns for a PARTICULAR period, with the oberservation of colors and symbols. -B. Look at CONTEMPORARY art, esp ensigns, tombstones, and "folk art" (things a typical seaman would see, recognize, and be able to create) to get a "feel" for the WAYS and MANNERISMS that people viewed the images described in A. -C. Design a flag that works within the parameters identified in A and B. -D. Result-> personalized flag that is "fitting" for the period being portrayed. 3. Design one that fits WHATEVER YOU WANT. -This may or may not be period correct, but is quite "FUN" to design and create.

There are various hull designs and rigging. In movies, the designs are similar, but noticably differesnt too. Much like many can't tell exotic sports cars apart ann call them ALL Ferraris. What got me was the sililarity in look, design, and many of the details. Of course Captian Blood was a significant inspiration (along with a number of classic pirate films) for POTC, that design similiarities are NOT surprising. Now . . . the Question is: Would a particulsr hull design be approppriate for a particular period??

I was watching Flynn's Captain Blood and noticed that the ship he steals from the Spanish looks rather like a ship fought over by Sparrow and Barbosa. Look and see for yourself!!!!!!!!!