Tartan Jack

I wonder how it looks in person. Could be a great cruiser, might be more modern "pirate-like" fun than accurate. Still, could be VERY cool to own. The price drop also was another "off" thing. Still, for that price, one could get a VERY accurate sloop made to order. I'd rather have that if I had the money. This is designed for paid group cruises (cruise for hire stuff). For that purpose it is GREAT!!

I just found this thread . . . Michael has talked me into coming (assuming can talk my boss into letting me off on Friday- not easy anymore -to make the 500-ish mile drive). I'm in South Carolina (deep enough "South" for you?). If your coastal NC or so forth, we could meet in the Asheville or Western NC area and route across the Blue Ridge and other mountains to Columbus. (As is, I'm planning to cross from Asheville, accross the surface roads of Tennessee and Kentucky to Ohio.

While interesting, several things strike me as "off" . . . Mainly, the hull itself looks like a modern design "converted" to look "pirate-y" and it bears the ship name from a recent famous movie, while claiming to be a replica of one built by Henry Morgan in the mid/late 1660s. It just doesn't LOOK like a larger vessel of that period. Also, it is claimed to be his "flagship," while the built craft is only 2-masted, not 3 (so, not technically a ship by the terms of that period-> part of the definition "ship" was being 3-masted and square rigged). Here is the story on the sale sight itself: "A group of men wanted to build a copy of the famous "Black Pearl", not only as it used to look but also with the same materials and in the same place where this famous ship was built 338 years ago! The wood used included the Santa Maria wood for the frame and the Pine for the sheathing. The Black Pearl was constructed according to a primitive drawing by one of the sea robbers, who was sailing this ship. A lot of time was spent drawing and designing the ship, constructing and paying attention to all the details to preserve the original look of the vessel." And later: "Black Pearl "The ship of a famous sea robber" the Black Pearl Henry Morgan was born in Welse in 1635. A sailor and a soldier, who served under the British Crown, became one of the most famous sea robbers of all time. At first he was a slave on the Barbados, then he went to Port Royal where he bought a leadership of the ship called Ganymed. Later when he was under the Lord Christopher Myngse´s command he took part in a foray with his ship and connected two highly valuable points in the Caribbean Sea, Truhia and Grenada, to the British Crown. He received attention of generals, common sailors and soldiers and respect of all captains in the Caribbean Sea thanks to his skills, cleverness and brightness. Afterwards he gave rise to Liberty Brotherhood and finally also to his own republic of the sea robbers. In 1667 Henry Morgan decided to build pride of his fleet, the Black Pearl. It was his flag-ship, where he spent his all free time and from where he operated all of his robber's actions, legal sea fights under the British flag and even wild inordinate drunks. He could make the best of the hostility between the Spaniards and the British. As he still ploughed the sea between Jamaica and Panama, he decided to build his ship on the Honduras coast, i.e. approximately halfway to the present town of La Cieba. It was very close to his favorite Roatan Island, where he often anchored, rested with his crew and repaired ships damaged in fights. Since the island was surrounded with a coral cliff being highly dangerous for ships, any ship of his chasers did not risk getting to Morgan. At present his favorite place on the Roatan Island is called Port Royal like the famous pirate town in Jamaica. It lies on the east part of the island in the direction to the Honduras coast. The Black Pearl was floated in 1669. This ship took part in many fights and robberies; the biggest one was an invasion in Panama in 1671. One year later, Morgan was put in prison in England. He, however, proved his innocence in a plot and was finally promoted to a noble status in 1674. Later he returned to the Jamaica as its governor and the main judge. Henry Morgan died after long illness in England in 1688." I'll let some of the Morgan experts on this site comment on the possible validity of that story . . . (Morgan is one of the famous "pirates" that A LOT is known about and well documented. So, verification to possible is pretty straight forward.)

It would vary by accent from "slew" to "sloop" to "slewp." The sounds that make "Mountain Southern" (hillbilly) were one part of the British linguistic field (preserved by isolation), but that wouldn't have been universal. Also, before spelling was standardized, the various spellings give a GREAT window into period pronunciation. By that I mean, all the spelling would have been phonetic attempts to recreate the verbal pronunciation, so the key would be to figure out what fits all as much as possible. Why do I bring that up? The final "p" would have been pronounced, not silent, while how pronounced would vary somewhat from place-to-place of verbal learning (ie-> where one learned to talk and learned their personal accent). Even in modern Southern pronunciation, it could easily be "slewp."

Context . . . Context . . . Context . . . "What makes a pirate" depends on period and interpretation of the idea of "pirate."

Define hair queues. If you mean, effectively, a pony tail, then yes, there are probably GAoP era references (though I struggle off the top of my head). If you mean the solid pony tail, usually black, seen on all self-respecting sailors in old movies (as implied in the original post), then they seem very much to be a later fashion. I know it is commonly portrayed in the Napoleonic Wars period Royal Navy (see Horatio Hornblower films, for example). But, how much earlier was it? As I recall, in period, sailors were often commented upon and recognized by their short hair . . .

Screw it . . . I'll just randomly change the name (like some real pirates did) just to mess w/ people's heads . . .

If I can get off . . . I'll show up! Maybe I can meet more folks in person. This one would be close enough I could work Friday morn and STILL show up before midnight! (That would be a 350 mile, 6 hour trip for me)

In case anyone is wondering what that is, look here: http://www.buccaneerthemovie.com/

What about "Bedlam" . . . ? The term came from the Bethlehem Royal Hospital- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlem_Royal_Hospital It was the most famous madhouse in the British Empire and epitomizes the image of an asylum in the popular mind. It WAS around and was commonly known as Bedlam in the early 1700s (the Golden Age of Piracy), so is in-period too. Plus, it flits w/ scikotics, plus the Sanitarium and Asylum shows (plus Pandemonium on the west coast). It fits w/ the B of xB (xBedlam).

While on it . . . Previous cars: 85 Audi 5000 (Dr gray): Spectre 87 VW Vanagon (Dr gray): Spectre II 90 Mazda Miata (1960s-style Lotus Racing Green and yellow stripe): Fenix (Still own), formerly Polar Bear (used to be while) 95 Chrysler Cirrus (ocra-green, forget official name): Flying Ocra 97 Ford Taurus -given to by in-laws- (light blue) Blue Oval 2000 Ford Crown Vic (blue-green)- Cruiser Also drove: 87 Dodge pickup: Constipated Pig (made groaning sounds) Isuzu box truck (for work back in 1996): Moby Dick Ryder box truck (drove on thousand mile trip, helping sister move): Cheddar Also: Father's BMW 5-series (gray-silver): Owl Wife's Dodge Caravan (silver): Queen Anna's Revenge (her name is Anna) Can't believe I've had this much trouble w/ the B . . . LOVE the B, though! It, the Miata, and Vanagon (the 3rd Gen VW Bus) are my three favorites, all for different reasons and for different trips.

What? 2 dozen views and no votes? I know this group has opinions . . .

Shots: More pirate stuff is coming in next week, esp. as I install a bunch I am prepping now. The name needs to be set, so I can integrate it into the vehicle in a number of places. Also, I am intentionally doing a mix of historic, "pop," and a "modern-spin" on historic elements. For example, I made a canvas seabag to historic design, but included a modern drawstring w/ a plastic clasp and the strap uses parts of a modern satchel/messenger bag and is made from red canvas. Other stuff will be similar.

I name ALL my cars. For some reason, I've had a HARD time naming my Scion xB . . . I've gone through dozens of names and none stick. After playing with several themes, I'm going full-bore pirate sloop. I'm detailing it here: http://www.newscionxb.com/123-2nd-gen-scion-xb-talk/8044-project-sloop.html As ya'll are more "in-tune" with pirates and pirate history than most, so I'll ask here. I am finally deciding between KwikSilver and Rover as the vehicle name (as mentioned in another thread). -Rover is a direct and historical reference to what pirates of the GAoP oft referenced themselves as (rovers or sea rovers), plus I "rove" around a lot and LOVE driving. It was also the common term used for centuries for pirates and pirate ships/craft, sometimes as rovers and sometimes as sea rovers. For example of the twin meanings as the 2 main normal meanings: rover - definition of rover by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. rov·er 1 (rvr)n.1. a. One that roves; a wanderer. b. A crewed or uncrewed vehicle, used especially in exploring the terrain of a planet and its satellites. 2. Sports A mark in archery selected by chance. ro·ver 2 (rvr)n.1. A pirate. 2. A pirate vessel. I used this for a while, but dropped it for the reason below: (I love this name, but am somewhat concerned about people thinking "he really wanted a Land/Range Rover," when that isn't the case. That is like when I thought "JackRabbit" or "Jack's Rabbit," but dropped it b/c the famous VW product.) Oh, and Rover would also be a subtle allusion to "Sea Dogs" (through the common use of Rover as a dog's name, a mahor association in the US) -KwikSilver is a more complex meaning mixing the multifacted of mercury (the messenger god, the metal, and so forth), the wonderful hotrods of the 1950s were Mercury was cool, and the fact it is quick and silver. The spelling is Anglo-Dutch (and period-correct), as the Dutch spelled it Kwikzilver and is one of a number of English spelling variations (English wasn't yet really standardized). Plus more. This is what I've been using and have some ideas, but not as direct and simple as Rover. (I like this name)

NO ONE buy the tartan jacket . . . It's MINE!!!!!

I just hope it has a decent, cohesive plot, good writing, and actually has piracy in it . . . Historically correct elements would be nice, but not really expected by me. I keep waiting for the "flood" of "imitation" pirate films to come out, but they haven't Maybe the genre will come back to life beyond one film series.

Don't forget Condent's Flying Dragon found just a few hundred yards from Kidd's Adventure Galley. It was found first, then Kidd's one (what they were looking for). Technically, the Dragon wasn't a ship, but a sloop. The present list for 4 actual pirate ships/sloops (not including Morgan's privateer ones) found are, in general order of find: Sam Bellamy's Whydah Condent's Flying Dragon William Kidd's Adventure Galley (all three by the same guy/group) Edward "Blackbeard" Teach's Queen Anne's Revenge Morgan's sunken flagships would make 2 (3?) more.

Me too! That would be more interesting. The logo-link were more general info for the room. I like old signs, even replicas. That would be the equivalent and more interesting b/c real, unlike the PotC 2/3 "East India Trading Company" one (which is nice, looks period but isn't from it/real).

For period-correct logos, look into this thread: https://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=10480

The actual East India logo is this (w/o the V): Some stuff was w/o the V, while stuff from the late 1700s has the V (most I've seen are dated 1790s). I'm not sure when it was introduced or what it means (Queen Victoria reigned later-in the mid to late 1800s). Maybe our English historians may enlighten us. The symbology is: The heart of the British Empire, crossed by the company. The top 4 is supposed to be a sail . . . The letters are East India Company The one with the 3 crosses/t's was designed for the Pirates of the Caribbean films (though it is showing up at historical events now). The Dutch East India Company used this mark:

Thanks, Foxe. It was your flag site that got me going on that line of thought and the book you recommended to me ("Republic of Pirates") and who was and was not discussed as a New Providence pirate.

Oooo . . . Interested. I need to pay for other stuff (like MarkG's boat), but REALLY wish I could. Though, should probably buy a darn musket first . . .

The most psychopathic were the Lowther and Low group/pirate cluster, who attracted fellow psychopaths. As to our understanding of pirate groupings, the breakdown into 2 main "gangs" of the period looks more and more to me as a fair and accurate way to approach the GAoP and aids in understanding where the popular images of pirates developed from and mutated into the pre-PotC images of pirates. One side was the "Flying Gang" of New Providence, who tended to me former (screwed-over) privateers and mostly ones who would be honest if given then chance to make a good/decent living that way. This is supported by how many took pardons, pleaded for pardons, and actually expressed remorse for their pirate activities. I think this group fueled pirates as the "anti-hero" of the 18th century writings, while still being dangerous criminals. (This group seems to have often used the skull and crossed bones as their "gang colors" either solely or as one of their banners, also often using British or British-based flags too, as a sign of patriotism and/or "Britishism" they still felt.) Edit- The "cruelties" of this group were much more in the nature of "sailor's rebellion against oppression" and revenge for offenses and practices done to them, such as giving punishments to captured captains that said captain had done to his crew (based on interviews w/ the crew of a captured ship) or the well-treatment of "good"/caring captains. They didn't tend to be cruel for the sheer fun of it, unlike the cluster below . . . The other side is the Lowther/Low cluster that tended toward cruel psychopaths, who did most of the REALLY nasty punishments. The people in this group would mostly have been career criminals given ANY situation, attracting those like-minded. This group fueled the "pirates as nasty, mean villains" image. (This group tends to have used the full skeleton w/ a spear piercing a bleeding heart as their "gang colors.") That is a simplification and incomplete, but helpful if true (like I said, it is a developing "hunch"). (I'd LOVE to read Foxe's oft promised and long delayed book on Jolly Rogers and see if the above statements on the flags holds up to more research.)

Another VERY important part of NOT killing a crew (or anyone, if you could) is that crews expecting to be killed are much more likely to fight (nothing to lose). For the crew of a merchant ship, which they work for low pay and don't own, the will to fight for the cargo and knowing they should live if they don't resist would make them tend to say "this stuff just isn't worth dying for" . . . That makes our work as pirates much easier. To have the capability for great violence and death (a real threat) and the capability for mercy to the poor victim crews (who may even desire to JOIN us) makes the likelyhood of them giving up w/o endangering ourselves more likely. The overall numbers should be fairly accurate, just depends on which ones you want to believe . . . (The various given numbers vary widely from generous to just what we can prove (ie-> name the ship). For example, some only give Blackbeard/Ed Teach 16 captures (if I remember the correct number for proven-beyond-doubt captures), while others list as many as 40.

Despite its inexplicable historical errors and HUGE leaps, like it makes no reference to what happened to the Queen Anne's Revenge after Charleston (it just vanishes and Blackbeard keeps his sloop (which isn't really explained where he got it from, the last time we saw him on one like it he gave it to the Concorde's former crew when it became the QAR. Still, it is probably the best and most serious attempt at making an accurate pirate movie. The issues mainly come from lack-o-budget on it's made-for-TV (National Geographic and BBC) scale for something that is VERY expensive to film right. As my uncle works in film and has done much TV film (PM me if you want details), I somewhat understand the problems and limitations inherent in the format. Of ALL the pirate films I own (inc. Black Swan, Blood, SeaHawks, the PotC film and twin sequels), and the rest, this Blackbeard one remains one of my absolute favorites and one of the few that actually show pirates pirating . . . It is also one that shows pirate as thinking warrior and not some random raging lunatic. I like it, having actually watched it several times and having my kids watch it on the way to Charleston for a day-trip last weekend.