Coastie04

Dang! I'll be just missing that. I'll be in the Seattle area the week before, but leaving on the 20th. Oh well, maybe next time... Coastie

Well, theat least there are a few good things about where I live. I walk about half a mile from my house to hunt, the Alaskan Brewery has free samples (and the server there likes my wife and I), and the scenery out each of my windows is amazing. And, I can walk just three driveways down and see a glacier. If it weren't for a few trees on a neighbors' yard, I'd have a view from my bedroom. It's easy to catch fresh salmon and halibut in season, and a resident fishing license is not much more than you'd pay for each pound elsewhere (and the first halibut I ever caught was 295 lbs-that pretty much pays for a lifetime of fishing licenses). I'm on a boat almost every day and get to see orca whales playing volleyball with a sea lion (OK, only once, but it was really cool), humpbacks bubble feeding (and once, recently, attacking a decent sized fishing boat), and the splendor of Southeast Alaska. All in all, I'll take the gas price. But thanks for the concern Coastie

Damn you all with your low gas prices. Here in Juneau, AK, the prices just went down last week from $4.36 to $4.25 per gallon at the cheapest place and I was happy. Way to ruin my good mood! Coastie

For irony, Everybody Wants to be a Cat Coastie

Well, based on the evidence brought forth, you'll need just one more to be 'historically accurate' No, you can't have mine! Coastie

Found a couple of great pictures to show the large range of tan bark sails out there. ' These two are from a boat builder's website showing the range of sail cloth that they can offer. What I found interesting, and there may be no basis in history for this, is that the darkest sail material, which is described as almost a chocolate color, is called 'European Tanbark'. Since this was a product of the local bark available, is it possible that the pre-faded tan bark sails in certain regions could be nearly black? Just a thought. Also, depending on the sun, they can look bright orange: Schooner Picture Coastie

Absolutely! However, most of the sails show the same striped nature that we are all familiar with for Viking sails, which is why I added a modern replica as another visual of how it could have looked. I know that there is other evidence, but honestly I was just a little too lazy to dig it out yesterday, so I sufficed with one example and visual ones are just more fun than text (at least at first glance). I almost mentioned this, as I remember it from a clothing thread in the past. However, as I mentioned with the 'black' sail shown on the wherry, were actually dark brown. I have seen many different shades of 'tan bark' (though, I admit, none as dark as this), and figured it would probably fade over time into a lighter reddish-brown color. But, if new tan-bark sails could be as dark as this, then calling it black would not be out of the question. I tried to convey my skepticism of this particular sail, but if it was understated, I apollogize. Additionally, I did more research and found that the Alexander Von Humboldt, the green-sailed barque from 1906 that I posted, did not have its current rig until 1988. Before that, she was a lightship with a hull design based on sailing vessels. Coastie

OK, one picture of a historical black sail. Technically, it's dark brown, but calling it black would be understandable. I don't know what this particular sail is made out of, but the boat is the Norfolk Wherry Albion, built in 1898. She was saved as a historical cargo vessel in 1949 to preserve some tradition. I saw one website (which I can't find again, sorry) that mentioned that the black sails were a result of a preservative to ensure the long life of the sails, so since it is dark brown, I wonder if certain tree bark creates an extremely dark tan bark color? However, that is pure speculation since I don't know about that particular sail and how traditional it was. As a note, other wherrys that I've come across on the internet have canvas colored sails, except for one that had a lighter tan bark sail. Coastie

Well, I found a little more info on tanning sails: "SAIL CLOTH and CORDAGE, both of which were prone to rot, were also sometimes subjected to a process similar to tanning, hence the patent for a liquor for tanning thread sail-cloth, and modes of preserving the sail-cloth or 'tanned canvas' from mildewing and rotting [Patents (1768)] and the '18 score yards tand hering lint' [inventories (1677)] listed among fishing equipment." From: 'Tan bark - Tawed', Dictionary of Traded Goods and Commodities, 1550-1820 (2007). URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=58893. Date accessed: 26 September 2008.

And a few more pictures of the Viking sails. Coastie

Well, I don't know how long she's had them, but the Alexander Von Humboldt sports green sails. I've seen those red (or tan bark) sails a lot, and they were traditional. Cotton sails were dyed with tannins derived from tree bark, which gave them the reddish color. This was primarily to help preserve the sail, though it did also add a degree of camouflage when sailing near a sand/dirt shoreline. The red sails, especially on smaller vessels, would not stand out as much as bright white sails. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=58893 reports that the term 'tan bark' was used to describe the use of oak bark to tan animal hides. The earliest reference to that process was in 1604. However, this source did not mention the process used on sails. I'm not sure when that became popular. However, I have also seen pictures of traditional vessels with other dyed sails, both in the Mediterranean and Viking ships. (The Bayeux Tapestry is an embroidery that is roughly 20 inches tall and 230 feet long. It tells the story of the events leading up to and including the Battle of Hastings on October 14, 1066) While I realize that these are completely out of the period, it does show some colorful sails from before the GAoP, and at least tan bark sails were around after. However, I have never seen black sails except on modern boats. Coastie

I like the look of the Blackadder text, but it seems unnecessarily hard to read, especially in the smaller font sizes. I love the parchment background, and the colors, but as for looking purely for information, it would take me longer to read a post in that font than in at least a smoother script text. Coastie

Huzzah to Stynky!!! Well, it's glad to see the pub off the rocks, with the cargo intact. Sure, it will take a bit to make her pretty again, and I'm all for getting the holes, rigging, and rudder fixed before puting a new coat of paint, holystoning the deck, etc. The main point is that she didn't go down. Coastie

I should have done a google search before posting above. I found this website with the many credits to the Square Sail Shipyard. I didn't realize they had a hand in White Squall, although the boat used for that movie was the Eye of the Wind, and not one of the shipyard's own boats. Also, they were used for the miniseries Longitude. Coastie

Three ships, belonging to Square Sail Shipyard have been used in a number of movies. I know they convert their ships to portray almost any time period and they are commonly stars and bit parts. From my recollection, they provided ships for Shackleton, Cutthroat Island, the Hornblower series, Count of Monte Cristo, and the Scarlet Pimpernel. I'm sure they've done more, but those are the ones I can remember (hopefully correctly) off the top of my head. Every once in a while I see them on documentaries and whatnot, since they have a shipyard in which to convert the appearance, and are willing to do this for all their boats. Coastie

Yes, it's OOP, but definitely interesting for a maritime historian. I just heard about it today. They might finally be able to answer some more questions about the fate of the lost expedition to find the Northwest Passage in 1845. If anything of the ships still exist, it would be quite the exciting find. I definitely appreciate the pledge to protect the wrecks, if found. Article 1 Article 2 Coastie

Ah yes, a very good website by our very own Foxe. Be assured, that website is as accurate as possible and the information is reliable. Coastie

OK, here's some pictures I found. This is a fishing boat beached on a beach in France. "A painting showing two fishing boats beached at Villerville, a little fishing village west of Honfleur, France. They are waiting for the tide to lift them off the narrow beach. The larger vessel is probably a Le Havre trawler. Two men with fishing baskets stand in the shallows, probably looking for mussels, and a third is working on the side of the boat in the shallows. A fourth man works on the boat with his back to the viewer. Other shipping can be seen on the horizon. The artist has created an image of calm and tranquility." "Three fishing boats, two being sprit-rigged and flying the Dutch flag, are shown on a mud bank. Merchant and other shipping is visible in the distance to the right on a calm sea. The beached vessel on the right has a sail raised and an anchor resting on the mud flats. Several fishermen standing on the mud are occupied with the boat on the right, two on the far right moving a wooden barrel probably laden with mussels. The larger boat to the left of centre contains three men, with another standing alongside busily engaged with it. An anchor rests at his feet. On the far left another small fishing craft has an anchor visible and nearby a man collects mussels. Behind the boats is a coastline with dunes on the left and the contours of a town visible in the centre." "This narrative depicts a collier brig lying aground on a beach in shallow water, at low tide. Coal is being 'whipped' out of her hold in baskets, using the large iron pulley suspended from a jeer or whip footed on her deck, and tipped down a chute over her side into a cart waiting in the water below. A man mounted on a cart-horse in the central foreground carries a metal bucket of coal in his right hand and a long horse-whip over his shoulder (possibly a visual pun on the process being shown), from the ship towards the cart on shore to the right, which is waiting its turn to be loaded. The horses are all have colourful ruff-like padding of some sort behind their working collars, in blue yellow or red. The ridden horse also has a red cockade on the headband of its bridle. Other shipping has been depicted in the distance, the vessel to the right apparently being another brig, though over-scaled for the type. The scene shown is a frequent subject in coastal marine art of the late-18th and early 19th centuries, especially in watercolours and drawings. The north-eastern, cat-bark brigs employed in the coal trade were capacious, flat-bottomed and solidly built precisely for the purpose of 'taking the ground' to load and unload in this way, in places without deep-water quay installations." Coastie

I've seen paintings before of small fishing boats beached to unload their cargo, especially places like Nova Scotia and the likes. As for the main being out of trim, you don't want it filling properly when you're trying to take the boat in for a soft landing. Furthermore, when beached, you don't want there to be a lot of stress on the boat. However, with canvas sails, they were often hung up to dry, so that might be why the main was left up, or was re-set in what seems to be relative calm weather. The anchor in the foreground in even shallower water (with either sand or mud bottom) supports my theory that the boat was intentionally grounded and the captain wanted the boat to stay there. Just my two cents worth. Coastie

The largest one I can think of on the west coast is the Californian. Many of the tall ships currently out west that I can think of are less than 100 feet on deck, such as the Lady Washington, Lynx (which was built in Maine, but is based out of California), Irving Johnson and Exy Johnson. Now, if we include some historic, but out of period ships, then there's the Adventuress (1913) and Zodiac (1924), though they were both built in Maine. Although one step shy of a wreck today, the Wawona (1897) was built in CA as a lumber schooner and was the largest wooden schooner ever built. Coastie

Well, according to the San Diego Maritime Museum, the ship has found a permanent berth there. She's been restored to seaworthy condition and sails a few times a year, but there was no mention of possible sequals to the movie. It is possible that the museum would give up the ship for a while to film another movie, were it made. Coastie

Well, I tromped around with the Free Men of the Sea when I was living in New London. Not sure about RI, but it's all in the same neck of the woods. I don't really know about the crimson shirt, as I've been gone for the past few years. Definitely a fun group if you're in the area. Coastie

Keep a weather eye on yer plunder. Crews are just so hard to trust these days. Happy Birthday Coastie

I usually use cotton patches, but then I also haven't done any firing at re-enactments. Usually, the cotton did end up smoldering on the ground about 10-20 feet away, so keep that in mind. I also seem to remember a discussion about this a while back and someone brought up using some sort of magician's paper that burned brightly, but also completely in a short period of time (ie before it hits the ground). Coastie

They should work fine, just have a latch on the inside or something to keep them closed if the wind blows a bit. Or, if the wood used is heavy enough, gravity might keep it pretty much closed. On a different note, you can always try to make it look like a ship laid up in peace time. The following are pictures of the USS Constitution and HMS Unicorn, both frigates. This photo of the Constitution (the link) states that it's from a Civil War collection, but I'm not really sure about the date of the photo itself. USS Constitution The second of the Constitution is from 1905 when she was a floating building in a naval yard. Finally, don't forget the HMS Unicorn. These show that the gunports (at least in later years while vessels still had some purpose to their navies, possibly as floating docks, store rooms, or classrooms at an academy) were closed in with panes of glass. It appears that the Constitution still had some gunport covers outside of some of the windows at that time. Coastie