Coastie04

Ahh, this is just the type of discussion I wanted. However, Foxe did pretty much hit the nail on the head. As far as Captain Swan being "displaced," how did he lose command? I'd assume that since he lived, it was bloodless. Otherwise, the rest of the crew would probably not have left him alive to tell his tale. However, did the former Captain Swan participate in the raid? Or, was he kicked off the boat in the next port? If anything, it seems like the alleged prophetic warning was Swan's attempt to regain his power. This all seems to fall within Foxe's idea that the pirate crews were not real democracies, but rather a Captain's means of maintaining some control and authority. Also, it would be interesting to know if they had any rules set forth before deposing Captain Swan. Were they written down, verbal understandings, or a product of the moment? Was it an organized, formal vote amongst the crew to depose Swan, or was it an angry, discontent mob that gave him the ultimatum to either stand down or be thrown overboard? As for Foxe's new question about the origin of worker's compensation, vote, etc., I wonder if the crews had personal experience with these ideas (and some may have), or if they had heard talk of them, or ideolized versions and incorporated them into their own set of rules. Much like if we were to form an organization today and have rules based off of pirate articles. We'd get a little from known pirate articles, some ideas that we like from false articeles, a bit from pop culture (i.e. "the pirate code", and a bit from modern culture and our ideas of "fairness". Foxe, thank you for your reply and, as always, well researched answer. One more myth that I've hear a lot that I think falls nicely into this category. When signing pirate articles or other mutinous petitions (if they were in fact signed at all), did members sign in a circle to hide the leader or show that they all backed the document equally? Coastie

Silent, best of luck. Sounds like a crappy deal, but given the state of things, it's probably for the best in the long run. Growing up near Seattle, I'd have to agree with Hurricane that it's definitely not what it used to be. Drivers aren't curtious, they just can't drive fast with the traffic (and don't have the death wishes that LA drivers do). Politics down there just don't make any sense to me anymore. Perfect (and fitting) example: they were going to evict a historic tall ship to put in a maritime park. Hmm...get rid of the largest wooden schooner ever built on the west coast in order to put in a maritime park . Luckily, they figured something else out, but it will at least end the schooner's waterborne days. Many of the nearby cities are much nicer. Coastie

Capt., Do you have, or plan to have, any sound clips on your (or another's) website? I've got quite a collection of sea shanty CDs, and I've found that some are extremely good, while others leave quite a bit of disappointment. As I've not been fortunate enough to hear you in concert (and unless you head to AK, I probably won't anytime soon), a song or two, or even 30-60 seconds of a few songs, would do wonders in convincing me to purchase your CD. BTW, since I don't have any o' yer CD's yet, clips from your previous CDs might help as well. Coastie

You might also want to contact the currently sailing replicas for blueprints. I've seen the ones for the Lady Washington, and they used to offer photocopies of selected ones for modelers. I'm sure they'd be able to photocopy them, and since they were used for the full sized ship, they would probably be more than adequate for your purposes. I'd imagine that any of the vessels built in the last 20 years or so (at least) would have them. Others might have plans drawn up after the fact, or be based on historical plans that can be found. Mystic Seaport in CT has a vast library of ship plans, and I believe that the maritime museum in Greenwich, Engand has the largest collection of period ship plans in the world (or so I've heard). As a side note for Mystic Seaport, I know a shipwright in Alaska who builds aluminum boats based on a design he found at Mystic Seaport of a 1930's fishing vessel. Bottom line, though, they're out there. Heck, the United States Navy might even have some tucked away of early vessels. Speaking of that, the USCG historian might have some plans of early vessels from the Revenue Cutter Service, which would likely be similar to many pirate vessels of the day. Good luck, and post pictures as you get this project underway! Coastie

A little off topic here, but a question I had when reading this post. I've heard that many pirate articles had a way to 'vote out' a current captain for another. Is there any evidence of this ever happening? And, more to the point, was it a peaceful change of power onboard? I'd imagine that installing a new captain, even within the terms of the articles, would potentially be a very bloody event. A deposed captain might cause problems in the future, thus a quick death would be less hassle than dropping him off at the next port. Just a random inquiry. Coastie

Another topic suggestion I have is something about the methods of hunting (and/or harboring) pirates and smugglers. This might go under the maritime law category, but I figure that one would be extensive enough on its own. This can delve into the hows and whys of bribing government officials, as well as the maritime strategies of using smaller, fast vessels to combat piracy instead of ships of the line. Also, for possible reading regarding the maritime architecture group, I'd say Tall Ships Down. Though this doesn't focus on the GAoP, it does give a lot of insight to the design of cargo vessels under sail and their possible flaws when trying to convert them for different uses (though the book mainly focuses on switching to passenger service, it can be useful to help understand other changes such as creating a pirate/combat vessel from a captured merchant ship, changing the rig, stability, etc). Wish I had this class in college! Coastie

You're a good, productive member of society, Graydog. Just one little question, what flag did ye fly? It's amazing how a youthful and ignorant cabin boy can be too hasty to run up the colors and mistakenly run up the wrong one. Sure, it be an honest mistake, but then again, the courts aren't all that honest, are they? Coastie

Thanks for setting me strait, Foxe. I was basing this on the poor assumption that a replica I saw in London was accurate. My bad. However, I know for a fact that the viking and phonecian references were accurate. And, since you mentioned that there is evidence that 16th century ships had figureheads, my hypothesis stands. And, if it's mainly animal figureheads (big if), then could it be a throwback to animal sacrifices? Coastie

Well, to help out whomever has me. I'm working on making my kit historically accurate, c. latter half of the 18th Century (yes, a bit post-GAOP). So far, for really historical stuff, I've got a cocked hat, canteen, pistol, and patterns for a shirt and slops from Reconstructing History (OK, just ordered them and hope they're in the mail because I can't wait). Of course, I love anything historical and/or related to piracy (whether historical or not), tall ships (period and modern reproductions), and waterproof stuff (hey, I live in a rain forest). Need any other ideas? Just PM me... Coastie

Started with some eggplant bruscetta, followed by home-made pasta with tomato sauce and grilled Italian sausages. Along with a bit of merlot, of course. Limoncello for dessert. Coastie

Well, back when I was in about 8th grade, I took a weeklong trip on the historical schooner Adventuress, a 101' vessel built back in 1913. I caught the sailing bug. The next summer, I volunteered on the Lady Washington. I grew up around black powder, but nothing as big as a cannon (even the swivel guns and mighty 3 pounders that the Lady has). Between the sailing and sweet smell of black powder, I was hooked. Coastie

Got mine. Now, what to plunder... Coastie

Thanks for reassuring my assumptions that many of these were 19th Century myths, Foxe. Just another little note about women at sea. I think it's kind of ironic that women are supposedly bad luck on boats, but naked/bare breasted women can calm the sea. I've always figured that women being bad luck at sea WAS true many years ago. Of course, it's for a very logical reason. Having one or two women aboard a ship would cause sailors to get distracted, and possibly cause jealousy and other crew discontent. These crew problems can lead to disaster. Therefore, from experience, people might have started to say "hey, let's not have any women on board, because they just cause trouble." Eventually, this leads to a superstition instead of the rational thought that one or two women on a ship full of men is a dangerous proposition. As for showing flesh, this just sounds like sailors' wishful thinking. I can imagine college kids trying the same thing. Since women are "bad luck," when there's a storm with a woman aboard, some horny sailor gets the bright idea that he can use this to his advantage..."Unlace your bustle!!!" Of course, any respectable woman would refuse, but all of a sudden that sailor has the backing of everyone on deck, and a crusty old salt explains to her that it will help calm the seas that she's the result of. Needless to say, this happens once, the story gets passed around a few seaports, and all of a sudden, it's tradition! As for the figureheads, I don't know when the first record of a figurehead being attached to a ship is (actually, I know that at least some viking ships had carved dragon heads, but I don't know if what we know of as figureheads are decendents of that tradition-also, the Golden Hinde had a figurehead of a deer), but I've heard another myth about them that I figured deserves to be mentioned. The figurehead is the ship's own eyes to watch out for reefs and other dangers in case the sailors miss them. This could possibly go back as early as Phoenecian times when eyes were painted on the bows of galleys. Again, though, I don't know if there is a linear connection between eyes being painted on galleys or other ships and figureheads. One other possibility that came to mind. Could figureheads have been a decendent of the animal sacrifices that originally "christened" a ship? I could see performing an animal sacrifice for a good voyage, and then putting the body somewhere for Neptune to see that a proper sacrifice was made. However, this is just pure speculation on my part. Makes sense to me, though. Coastie

Well, I can tell you a few things about a couple of these myths. The coin under the mast myth goes WAY back, as in to Roman times (if not earlier). However, it's not necessarily to ensure a successful voyage. It's to pay the ferry man at the river Styx if cast upon an unfriendly shore in a shipwreck. So, it's more to protect the sailors' souls in case there is a shipwreck. Pouring wine on deck will bring good luck...well, it started off with blood from an animal sacrifice, but somewhere down the line wine was used (probably with the advent of Christianity and decline of animal sacrifice). In modern times, it's usually champagne at the launching of the ship. These are just two that I know have origins in earlier times, so they would probably have some variation in the GAOP. I suspect that many of them are from the 18th and 19th Centuries, but I'd love people to find earlier references to them. Coastie

Any update on this? Coastie

Well, I saw an article a few weeks ago and forgot to post it here. Apparently, the designer of the Maltese Falcon is designing a two masted brig with the same technology, and hoping he can get a buyer to fund the building. While trying to find that article again, I came across this page: http://www.runningtideyachts.com/dynarig/ which has an interesting idea for a single masted, square rigged catamaran. Possibly the next step in the return of square riggers? It's possible if the rig prices start to come down and they're proven to be efficient and fast. Coastie

Definitely sounds like a good thing. Another one that I have is often found on ebay or amazon is Eagle Seamanship. It's issued to all Coast Guard Academy cadets to teach them the basics of sailing on Eagle (as with Elissa, much later than GAoP, but some good basic seamanship for square riggers). And, since cadets stand just about all the duty onboard during the summer cruises, it goes into calling sail, organization, safety, etc. It's only about 200 pages, and a small pocket-book size, but it's full of info and good drawings. Another one that I have not seen personally, but sounds great and more period, is Seamanship in the Age of Sail: An Account of the Shiphandling of the Sailing Man-Of-War 1600-1860. It was just one of the recommended readings when I made sure that Eagle Seamanship was still on Amazon and it immediately caught my eye. I'm not trying to defer attention away from the Elissa's seamanship manual, but just throwing some more resources in the pot. I'm really curious about the Seamanship in the Age of Sail book, since it's not necessarily a manual to sail by. However, there was the following review: "As a relatively inexperienced captain of a small square-rigged vessel, this is an invaluable work. It has helped me learn to sail better. I have been using the book for reference for around a year now, and I have ordered a second copy for one of my crew (I'm unwilling to loan my copy out, as I keep using it)...There are a few petty typos and formatting issues, and I could wish for a better index, but the quality of the textual information is top-notch and the illustrations and beautifully clear" Anyway, keep us posted on the possibility of getting that pdf. Coastie

For the water one, you can also make one jug of water heavier by adding salt. Then, dye the jugs different colors, and without movement, they won't mix readily. The dye can also be used to assist if freezing them. I like the H2O2 idea as well. Coastie

Occasionally I look at the ICC's weekly pirate attacks at http://www.icc-ccs.org/prc/piracyreport.php. This last week had 9 attacks, of which I'll post a couple of highlights: 19.10.2007: 0200 LT: Majunga harbour, Madagascar. Four robbers boarded a sailboat. They cut the skipper's thumb and assaulted him. Then, they took hostage the skipper's wife and tried to strangle her. The skipper and his wife were injured by knives and received many wounds and fractured ribs. They stole some cash and properties and escaped. 22.10.2007: 0350 UTC: 12:29.5N-045:15E: Gulf of Aden. While underway, a chemical tanker was pursued by seven boats with three persons in each boat. The boats approached the vessel from all directions making it extremely difficult for the vessel to manoeuvre. The closest the boats got to the vessel was 0.1 NM. The master managed to out manoeuvre five boats. The other two boats continued to follow the vessel. As the vessels, speed was greater than the boats the master assessed the situation and felt his vessel was not in any danger. 26.10.2007: 0410 LT: Nacala anchorage, Mozambique. Robbers in two boats attempted to board a container ship at anchor. Anti-piracy crew activated fire hoses at the boat and the robbers aborted the attempt. 28.10.2007: 0216 UTC: 13:05N -050:24E, Gulf of Aden. An undesignated distress was received from a chemical tanker underway. Thereafter, there has been no communication with the tanker. The owners and the piracy reporting centre have been unable to contact the vessel. Information from the coalition naval forces, in the vicinity, indicates that pirates have hijacked and sailed the tanker into Somali territorial waters. There are 23 crew on board the vessel. So, long story short. Piracy is still a major problem in certain areas. Chances are, it always will be. I did read a few years ago about a company that was hired as private contractors by the U.S. to help reduce piracy in some of the world's hot spots. Haven't heard much about them recently, but their boats were fast, stable, and armed. Though not considered "privateers", they're pretty much the modern day equivalent. Coastie

Not surprised in the least. However, I'd imagine that you had wind somewhere aft of the beam. If it were an upwind race, she wouldn't have stood a chance. However, 1877 was just about the peak of working sail technology, right in the middle of the clipper era. They were designed to follow the trade winds and make the best speed possible. Heck, the a clipper's record from China to England around Cape Horn wasn't beaten until the 1980s by a catamaran. And that's not a speed record under sail, but a speed record period. This is definitely a nice notch in the belt for tall ships. Coastie

Well, Haul on the Bowline was always a good one to tighten the bowlines (lines that helped give the sail better shape). Santiana is a good capstain shanty, though I've hauled up tops'ls with it as well. Spanish Ladies is another good capstain shanty, though it's also one of my favorites, so I use it as a song to pass the time as well. Some songs sound good at different tempos, so they can be used for multiple activities. Generally, the slower ones are good for capstains (hauling up the anchor, hauling heavy spars and masts up to rig the boat, etc.). Some medium "cadence-paced" shanties are good for hauling lines, such as haliards. It's really a matter of finding the right pace for whatever work has to be done. If it's fairly windy, a slower song might be needed to raise a sail than on a calm day. Hauling up the anchor would usually be a long process, so many songs would be needed. Generally, faster at first taking up the slack of the cable, then a some short shanties to break the anchor free (create surges of power from the crew), then probably a long, slow shanty with the weight of the anchor being hauled up. I'd recommend Stan Hugil's "Shanties from the Seven Seas" for as large a selection of sea shanties as you'd wish. Many of them are later than the GAoP, thought the greats (Spanish Ladies, Golden Vanity, etc.) have lasted through hundreds of years. However, they're traditional working songs from the days of sail. Coastie

So, during a night of moderate drinking, my wife and I came up with a new drink recipe. It's not for light weights, for sure. It was good enough that we decided to come up with a name for it, quickly adopting Scurvy Pyrat for this delicious concoction. SCURVY PYRAT: 2/3 Pyrat XO Reserve 1/3 Ice-cold Limoncello Start with the Pyrat poured into a chilled glass (size according to taste and liver's condition), then add the Limoncello. The cold limoncello will sink and create a semi-layered drink, though this can be stirred up if desired. The result is a fine sipping rum with a lemon twist that compliments the good rum. Coastie

Great article!!! Definitely makes you think about their lifestyles back then. I was especially surprised about the state of their health. Usually we look back and figure that everyone was sickly in some way due to all the diseases we read about, and the assumption that things were less sanitary, thus unhealthy. It's nice to see that, as long as there wasn't a plague going through, people were generally healthy. Coastie

Also remember that many times ships would just have to wait for a favorable wind to sail up a river. Even packet ships in the 19th century would wait for a favorable wind before crossing a dangerous river bar, and vessels were still "sailing with the tide." Heck, I spent two years as a deck officer on a US Coast Guard cutter, and we still, with modern propulsion (heck, one of the newest ships in the fleet), wait for the proper tides to transit some areas. Granted, it's the inside passage of Alaska with 20ft tides and strong currents, but those considerations would have been taken into account under sail with weaker forces. Coastie

Well, the optimism is now over. Looks like there's no chance of saving the boat. They thought that they almost had it a couple of times, but she just won't leave the reef. http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/854428.html Coastie