Ivan Henry aka Moose

Is there a PC camp?

Did I see Reggie in there?

would like to register for the mercury camp..boogator,......is this how????

Hey BOO! How are you?

Thanks Foxe - I have seen that one - it is really great. Now I am working towards finding what (non-independent) companies in the Colonies from 1690-1700 would have had grenadiers assigned to their units. THis stuff is really fun - I do enjoy researching this stuff!

and I don't mind if it merges - my apologies for starting a separate thread.

http://www.kipar.org...nadier_1704.jpg

Not quite within your parameters but close (1704). Then here's a more modern painting that supposedly shows some mid-17th century grenadiers: http://img9.imagesha...782/jakob30.jpg

Cheers,

Adam C.

Thanks! I really like the second one - I am looking at developing something right a long those lines!

I know - I am supposed to be an "expert" on muskets and things, but I do find conflicting research from time to time. Who can tell me if this: Early Doglock would be good for a 1690s era British Marine or Grenadier. PErsonally I think the mechanism is good for the period, but the fishtail stock would be a bit earlier. I did read that many muskets in the late 1600's British military were often mismatch and sundry sorts of weapons.

If not, then what would be a correct musket for grenadiers / marines of the late 1600s?

Not sure - Ivan Henry is England born, Boston resident, shop owner turned privateer. I have not decided if i want to work a pre-move to the colonies stint in the military or a post-move thing. So my unit colors would probably be driven by location. What do you think? It would be a little useless though to do a unit that didn't see action in the Caribbean or the early Colonies. I would look really lost and literally out of place at any reenactment...

Hmmmm, working a uniform into the "Ivan Henry" concept could be a bit more difficult. But using blue facings is one of the easiest routes I have found. Royal units (any unit with Royal in the title, with perhaps the exception of Artillery) and Independent companies (which were pretty widely spread around the colonies and Caribbean) both used blue facings. White, Yellow, and Green seem to be the other most common colours, but even Orange and sea-foam (green-blue) and other colours were used.

Personally, I pirate as "Mickey Souris" (a Frenchie, or an English/French cross depending on which mood hits me) and I use Michael "Mickey" Surrey (an Englishman) when I do solider (the two names are almost pronouced the same give or take the accent). I tend to reinvent my character (when I even bother with it) for each event. I like the concept of an ongoing character concept, but that isn't a strength of mine, so I tend to avoid it.

I just had a look back, and the link to Lee Offen's "British Regulars in America, 1664-1714" that I posted in this post, seems to be broken and the document not there. It had a really detailed list of units, locations and colours of facings. I am going to have look for it again, and see if I can post the new location of it (if it still exists). Maybe Lee will let me repost the document on my web site or on yours (or both).

Edit: This doesn't look like I remember it, but it is by Lee Offen and has most of the same information on it...

Here's an excellent link:

The British Military Presence in America, 1660-1720

Linkity Link

Well I read that Grenadiers were often among the tallest soldiers. Tall guys with tall hats looked imposing. Being 6' 3" I figured this would be appropriate I am even thinking of working it into my character's history as well. For now, it will either be grenadier or marine. I like this a good bit. I have also found some images of Grenadiers without the giant miter cap.

I've heard the "Grenadiers being the tallest" thing widely touted in Rev-War, F&IW, and War of 1812 circles... So I do tend to believe it, even though I have yet to see (likely because I haven't thought to look) any period sources that validate it.

While I don't like the super tall mitre hats, I do like the Marine cap in the image you just showed. My problem is when I first started going down this road, it was almost impossible for me to find any really good info on period marines, and I was finding lots of good references to "Foote Guard" (infantry), so I just went with that as being the easiest (well the easiest that wasn't grenadier ). Personally, I think you would make a great Grenadier, and with your preference for fancier clothing, it would be a good look for you! That and I just think it would be really cool to have someone doing a good grenadier portrayal! (read as peer pressure! )

The one cool thing about doing soldier impressions, is that many of the items can easily be reused. When I finish my version two infantry uniform, I could likely also use it to pull off a marine impression with just a different hat, and maybe a few other accessories. The Grenadier would require a new coat and hat (and maybe waistcoat too) which is a fair bit more work, but still much less than making whole new outfits.

And that image of the Grenadier with the yellow facing is actually a lot cooler looking than the Blenheim Tapestry ones, it almost uses the "Marine style" cap...

So what unit and facing colours are you considering?

Not sure - Ivan Henry is England born, Boston resident, shop owner turned privateer. I have not decided if i want to work a pre-move to the colonies stint in the military or a post-move thing. So my unit colors would probably be driven by location. What do you think? It would be a little useless though to do a unit that didn't see action in the Caribbean or the early Colonies. I would look really lost and literally out of place at any reenactment...

What can anyone tell me about this Grenadier's turnbacks? One appears to be white, and one blue.

As much as I have looked at that image, this is first I have noticed that! My guess is that it is an artist rendition error, and that both turn-backs should be blue.... But who knows?

Another thing that sticks out to me here, is that the breeches seem to be white (or off-white) instead of blue. In my research, breech and waistcoat colour seems to only count for the initial issue of a uniform, and subsequent waistcoats and/or breeches may have been drawn from personal sources and may not have matched unit colours.

It's really cool that you want to do a Grenadier impression. You're the first one I know of on this continent who is working towards it (or even seriously thinking about working towards it). I always thought the grenadier uniform to be one of the coolest looking in the period, except the hat... I am not a fan of the mitre style hat.

Well I read that Grenadiers were often among the tallest soldiers. Tall guys with tall hats looked imposing. Being 6' 3" I figured this would be appropriate I am even thinking of working it into my character's history as well. For now, it will either be grenadier or marine. I like this a good bit. I have also found some images of Grenadiers without the giant miter cap.

Here's a grenadier without the huge miter:

Canvac (sp?) works great - I ad mixed results with Thompson's water sealer - and it's way smellier.

What can anyone tell me about this Grenadier's turnbacks? One appears to be white, and one blue.

Let's start you off with This Topic on the Pub...

From there, I can help you a whole bunch more. Look up the "Belheim Tapestries" as they have some pretty decent images of Grenadiers, in fact Grenadiers are likely the easiest type of unit to document (visually) because of the Blenheim Tapestries. Now of course those are 1700 to 1710 Grenadiers rather than the 1690 to 1700 you seem to be focused on, but it is the best start I can advise you on.

On the whole, documenting soldiers of the GAoP is not an easy task (I've been at it for what, three years now?) unless you are going for a French Marine of the 1690 to 1710 era, then there are very nice clear and concise images you can draw from, but anything else, involves a lot of in depth looking, and then a lot of careful guesswork.

THANKS! I thought there was a discussion on this - very helpful! Thanks again!

I am kicking around the idea of working up a 1690-1700 era British Grenadier impression. In my initial research it seems this time period has a lot of loose specifications and a lot of very specific things. I am looking for any help at all. From reference materials you can recommend down to someone who can interpret what I want and expertly make it. I am looking for everything from what clothing, accessories, musket, everything would have been used. Any help is appreciated.

In an effort to share the many reference pictures I have come across while researching the 16th-18th Centuries, I've added a gallery of my research to www.IvanHenry.com. By no means is it or will it ever really be complete. It is a living and growing library!

Research Library

Excellent DB! Nice work! Thanks again!

Ivan Henry time travels to the 16th Century and mixes it up with the Spaniards again - That's me on the left in 1586 garb at Drakes Raid in St. Augustine Florida - Thanks to Liam Mac for the new (old) threads!

One more...

A note of expenditure by Sir John Norris for the 1589 expedition to Spain with Drake, dated 30 January 1589, lists:

"...disbursed for furniture of all sorts, viz. muskets, calivers, halbards, morions, corslets, pikes...

For 600 muskets of a second sort (ie. inferior), provided in this town at 30s apiece furnished...

For muskets, calivers, swords, partisans, and other munitions bought of Randall Symes...

For muskets and calivers of the best sort..."

In February Drake's expenditure included money spent on fire-arrows.

Muskets supplied for the Anglo-Dutch expedition against Spain in 1596 cost 20s, calivers cost only 15s.

Nathaniel Butler, writing a little later (1620s), is more explicit: "And in this gun room also are to be ordered and kept fixed all the small shot belonging unto the musketeers of the ship's company, together with their bandoleers and proportions of powder and shot..."

Interesting though I know not what a morian is, or for that matter a corslet, that is interesting. Though Jamestown might be a good resource, I would challenge their perspective of muskets being "new"

I now have a large supply of Blunderbusses in stock.... Doglock, French, French Military, British Military.. FREE SHIPPING on any Blunderbuss order in June from www.Ivanhenry.com Contact me before ordering! Also check out our new lower "Standard" prices for those who don't mind tuning their replicas.

Ivan Henry Trading Company

I have one doglock blunderbuss back in stock again!

Just received everything last night - Very nice job by Liam! I imagine that most people will think I am a 1920s era beach goer /swimmer but hey - I have documentation!

I find that a general lack of knowledge (at least on my part) of clothing from the 1500s makes correct clothing look kind of silly to most. I mean, look at 1120 in the drawing above... By the way it looks like he is carrying a rapier with a long blade which is kind of against the grain of what I have read. I thought sailors and military frowned on the long blade rapier and thought is was sissy - perhaps 1120 is French....

I do think 1121 just may be Mad Dogge's long lost great great great grandfather....

And 1119 just may be Patrick Hand's time traveling twin.....

Yar, there are plenty of pictures of Elizabethan soldiers with musket rests. The tassle thing is a wrist loop which makes it easier to load.

THANKS!!!

Just ran across that site last night....http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com...

Nice components they offer as well....Pricey...but....If yer an acomplished gun maker, ya can make a beauty ta fit yer personal needs. Quality locks and barrels...That's what makes a good gun. I would guess their completed guns to average in the 7-800. dollar range. I haven't inquired yet on finished guns but I think my next personal gun will be one of their kits......I've never had any issues with all the guns I've purchased from Middlesex...Just put the right size flint in and yer firing. The Murdochs have a really heavy mainspring creating a hellish trigger pull, but that was my only issue with any of their guns....I don't even mess with mainsprings....I'd leave that to the more qualified amongst us like Cascabel and Callenish.... I won't buy Spanish or Japanese...Period...in regards to guns......I do like Pedersoli's Queen Annes and Bessies but, like Patrick says it all depends on what ya can afford ta spend and how much ya wanna mess with em,or somethin' like that...One time I traded a buffalo robe for a cusom built left handed Queen Anne cape gun, 20 ga., made special for my ex psycho-alchohlic girlfrind...God what a beauty....The gun not the girl....Wish I stil had the gun....One of a kind, handmade lock,stock,and barrel....Light as a feather....God only knows what happened to it...Barrel is marked "Tidwell"....Oh well....

Murdoch pistols have a heavy pull for a reason - they have no trigger guard. Every one that I have had in stock has had a hard pull, I have to think it's intentionally a safety measure.

Would Drake's men have used a musket rest? Anyone? Anyone?

Yes they had a bandoleer of measured charges. Those go back at least to the early 16th century.

They probably did not use musket rests - they were still using the arquebus which was light enough that it did not need a rest.

Mark

Thanks Mark. I am however finding period references with musket rests and matchlocks. lately I have been wondering what the tassel thing I have seen hanging from some musket rests is.

HEre is a pic of the tassel thing on the musket

STERLING you started this nonsense, waltzing around with ye fancy cravats and lacie clothing, now look...its trickling down to the lowers....for shame, setting such an example.........oderlesseye, im glad ya have a good sound mind...that means the rum hasnt quite got ya yet....drink up........now i think i need to embroider a coat or two now.....

Who you call in a lower? Irony....

Bloody bunch of fops the lot of ye

That sounds like the a fop calling a fop black, no wait, that doesn't make sense...... A Dandy calling a Fop overdressed - yeah, that's it!

Looks like we are brothers in Lace... Wait that doesn't sound so good....