Creating the 1720 Careening Camp

[Salty]

sincer there be issue with all de names....

how bout gadfly.

no a cure or a cause fer anything nor named after ship outa movie

just a thought and may ye find a name

[Silkie McDonough]

Aye.

[Patrick Hand]

Aye.... I'll go with the name Mercury...

And cast my vote for Single masted.........

[William Brand]

I'm for Mercury.

The mast discussion is now evenly tied.

[Red Cat Jenny]

Aye Mercury . Post my vote as well please.

Miss Ashcombe

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Ok....

I'll do what others seem to be reluctant to do....

Its MERCURY damn it!

No voting.... lets just move on.

(I am agreeing with Callenish and Hurricane here)

We can navel gaze and come up with other names and on an on....

But Mercury is a great name so let us begin talking about all the other things that are going to be necessary to pulling off a great event next year.

GoF

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Now that that is.... settled....

I can't think of any period depictions of Careening off hand. Does anyone else know of any?

I am assuming that everything has to be taken off of the ship to turn it on its side.

So......

We need lots of junk, and instead of putting the junk back on board, can we just sell it to the locals and black marketeers?

What kinds of props are we expecting? Who can bring what and what has already been settled?

Maybe start an new thread, as this one is 16 pages long

How about

The Mercury 1720 Careening Camp PIP 2007

GoF

[Silkie McDonough]

Perhaps we should consider several threads.

Title: The Mercury 1720 Careening Camp PIP 2007

Sub title examples (others would know better than I would):

-Props (What is needed to make the camp look good) ...anyone have a ships bell?

-Feeding the Crew (Gear, food, fire, etc.)

-Guns and Powder (Who's got what?)

-Our Story

-Working Camp (What Activities can make the camp look more realistic)

-Fire ants ...hunt and destroy!

and more if needed.

This would make it easier to keep track of specific things. For instance people flying from the west will be unlikely to bring props but there is alot of talent out west, they can take on the story. Some of us from the east may be driving and can supply props.

[Captain Jim]

Ahoy, all. I’ve been horribly busy as of late, so sorry for not weighing in. Mercury is good. Let’s keep it and move on.

I like the look of a two-masted ship, as well as having an appreciation for the smaller size of the sails. This makes the sails easier to handle individually as well as offering more options for balance on all points of sail and in all kinds of weather. I would opt for the brig-sloop.

I’ve seen a couple of careening pictures. Now I have to go back and find them. That will teach me to pyrate pictures when I see them from now on.

As for starting a new thread to help organize this rabble, I heartily concur. I nominate William to set this up, that is if you're not to strapped for time, mate.

[Patrick Hand]

-Our Story

This post jot buried way back durring the ship's namming..... so I'm posting it again.........

Something I was thinking of for in the near future, (we still have a lot of stuff to figure out first)

I once went to a Renaissance faire where they sold a little booklet/pamphlet telling all about their little "Village"(Welcome to our Shire). It contained a basic history of the area, and an overview of Elizabethan life.

I was wondering if we could do something almost the same thing...

We have a lot of talented artist/cartoonist, so we could all participate in creating a small booklet telling about our ship, what careening is, weapons, clothing and Pyrate history of what is happening in 1720... A basic booklet, 16 to 32 pages long on what we are doing as Pyrates. (One sheet of paper,printed on both sides, cut in half and folded makes eight 5 1/2" by 4 1/4" pages.)

We would have to check with Harry about this part... But we could then sell the booklets, once we broke even on the printing cost, anything else would be donated to the Fort.

[LongTom]

Last night I ran across a reference to a ship named Mercury, taken by pirates in 1719. In General History of the Pyrates by (cough) Defoe, in the chapter on Capt England.

You have a historical prototype!

[michaelsbagley]

-Our Story

This post jot buried way back durring the ship's namming..... so I'm posting it again.........

Something I was thinking of for in the near future, (we still have a lot of stuff to figure out first)

I once went to a Renaissance faire where they sold a little booklet/pamphlet telling all about their little "Village"(Welcome to our Shire). It contained a basic history of the area, and an overview of Elizabethan life.

I was wondering if we could do something almost the same thing...

We have a lot of talented artist/cartoonist, so we could all participate in creating a small booklet telling about our ship, what careening is, weapons, clothing and Pyrate history of what is happening in 1720... A basic booklet, 16 to 32 pages long on what we are doing as Pyrates. (One sheet of paper,printed on both sides, cut in half and folded makes eight 5 1/2" by 4 1/4" pages.)

We would have to check with Harry about this part... But we could then sell the booklets, once we broke even on the printing cost, anything else would be donated to the Fort.

To take this suggestion a little further, if a creative person wanted to get really into this project, they could do the booklet in the style of a period newspaper.

I am not particularily great at creative writing, but if there were people out there that would contribute copy/articles/writing, I would happily take on researching the look of period newspapers and the formatting of the booklet.

If this is something enough people are interested in doing or collaborating on, splitting this into another thread may be an idea.... (moderator.... Oh, moderatorrrrr....)

I already have some fonts that are period correct, I found those while doing some research on books and bookbinding for the period a month or so ago.

[Patrick Hand]

they could do the booklet in the style of a period newspaper.

A period style newspaper would be cool.... but the pages are larger, so they would have to be printed at a real printshop..... A small booklet could be printed from a computer's printer......

[michaelsbagley]

The photocopiers in my office (and other offices I work in) and I assume photocopiers in many offices handle up to 11 X 17 inch paper.... The "newspaper" could be designed on regular letter or legal paper, then blown up on the photo copier to the larger size... It still may not be full size, but we could still aim for a scaled version of the look and feel. Go with the whole balance of costs with easily available materials, but as close to authentic look as possible.

And even if we wanted to stick to what is printable on a home computer printer, we could still aim for the style and look of a period newspaper, just very scaled down in size. Aim for authenticity, but comprimise and go for a true period look when perfect authenticity isn't feasible is what I say....

It's an idea, and idea that would require the work of a few people, I can help to an extent, if there are more interested in running with this particular idea, we go for it, if not, stick to the simple basic booklet. To tie this idea in with another concept, as there is not many "roles" for women as women, in a careening camp, this concept could help justify a woman as a woman for a newspaper hawker.

[Littleneckhalfshell]

from the following quote, it seems that a period newpaper from before 1713 COULD be small enough to do on a computer printer. "during the eighteenth century, the largest folio measured about 12"x18"; "

some one with a wide carriage printer could do that, and since they say the "largest folio" was 12"x18", surely there were people printing papers on smaller sheets. Also, once for one of my kids school projects, we did make a 17"x 22" newspaper using just the regular computer printer, we folded the newsprint sheet (newsprint sketch pad) so as to run it through the printer to make the four sections of 8.5x11. After we figured out which ones had to be upside down to make everything right side up when we were finished, it worked out really nice. It can be done, but in this case, I think research will show that presses were smaller in our timeperiod and so was the paper.

From: http://www.historicpages.com/glossary.htm

"Folio . This term refers to the largest size of newspapers. In England in 1713 a tax was imposed on newspapers; assessed on the number of sheets rather than the size of the sheets, the law became the incentive for creating large format newspapers, as a means of minimizing the tax. The tradition continues, and is the direct reason why your morning newspaper is still a large folio, instead of the more convenient magazine size. During the eighteenth century, the largest folio measured about 12" x 18"; by the mid-1800's the norm had increased to about 17" x 21", which is still standard to this day. Many oversized folios, nicknamed "horse blankets," were printed over the years, in sizes ranging up to three feet by five feet. Such larger folios were formerly further described as "atlas," "imperial," "elephant" folios, etc. As almost no one uses these terms properly today, such terminology appears generally only in the most pretentious book dealers' catalogs."

[Littleneckhalfshell]

Two other considerations brought up on the same site I quoted from above if one desires to remain in period. One, is that the paper the Newspaper is printed on, would NOT be the kind of paper newspapers are printed on today, since wood pulp paper was not used until 1867, Second, from what I can understand, some newspapers were as small as 6"x 9" So..... 8.5 x 11 may well be within an authentic size, or could be cut down to an authentic size.

"Newsprint . The paper upon which the newspaper is printed. The term is used chiefly to refer to the woodpulp paper which was first used in 1867 and which became standard by the 1890's. Unfortunately this paper is highly acidic, bearing excessive amounts of residue from the manufacturing process. This has caused the loss of the great majority of saved specimens over the years; ironically, well preserved modern woodpulp papers are much scarcer than earlier rag based papers in collectible condition. It may be that our era, with its emphasis on information, may be a blank in future history books, as all our records are written on such perishable substances as woodpulp paper, film, and magnetic media"

"Octavo. Refers to the smallest size of newspapers and the usual size of magazines, about 6" x 9", abbreviated 8vo . It was the usual size of the earliest newsbooks and their forerunners of the 1500's and 1600's, and the format persisted for many years in several notable later publications."

[michaelsbagley]

"Newsprint . The paper upon which the newspaper is printed. The term is used chiefly to refer to the woodpulp paper which was first used in 1867 and which became standard by the 1890's. Unfortunately this paper is highly acidic, bearing excessive amounts of residue from the manufacturing process. This has caused the loss of the great majority of saved specimens over the years; ironically, well preserved modern woodpulp papers are much scarcer than earlier rag based papers in collectible condition. It may be that our era, with its emphasis on information, may be a blank in future history books, as all our records are written on such perishable substances as woodpulp paper, film, and magnetic media"

All of my brief research on period paper led me to the conclusion that linen pulp paper (mostly from linen rags) was the most commonly used type of paper for the period.

Now linen paper is both expensive, not easy to get, and not particularily easy or cheap to make in any quantity, so if this concept gets enough interest and buy in from enough people to make it happen (and approval from the camp organizer), it would almost definately be done with the use of cheap modern photocopier quality paper for the sake of economy, time and resources. For period look, I am suggesting mostly size, look, layout, fonts, possibly writing style in the "news articles" etc. Trying to actually make a reconstructed period newspaper would most likely be taking the idea to far.

If my understanding is correct, the pamphlet's primary purpose would be to explain the purpose of the camp and give the spectators some basic understanding of what is going on and why we are there. Most of the pamphlet's will find their way to the waistbins, but if we can make the look more like a "keepsake" by giving them a more period feel, there is a distinct chance more of them may wind up being taken home as momentos by spectators rather than being skim read and tossed in the trash.

Thanks for the information on the sizes of folios for the period, that is a great place to start for sizing the theoretical newspaper, if it winds up being a go.

I guess there is no point in debating this, it's really a matter now of volunteers offering to help write, and the camp organizers giving permission should there be enough people interested in making it happen.

[Patrick Hand]

some newspapers were as small as 6"x 9" So..... 8.5 x 11 may well be within an authentic size, or could be cut down to an authentic size.

I thought they were larger than that..... about 14 x 20 ish.....

Something about larger paper being cheaper to mail... they charged by the sheet.... but that may be out of period....

the pamphlet's primary purpose would be to explain the purpose of the camp and give the spectators some basic understanding of what is going on and why we are there.

That and some history.... but make it "nice enough" that they wouldn't just get thrown in to the trash.....

Something not quite a comic book, but with enough illustrations and text to make it interesting (I'm skipping any snide comment about "short attention spans".....)

[Fayma Callahan]

I have been reading your posts about a newspaper booklet, and have some things to add. I have found that we could use a linen type of paper in the smaller sizes (8.5"X11" or less) but we have the capability to print large format up to 44" wide on the short side, so larger "booklets" would not be much of a problem. I have found some textured papers that might well suit what we want, but we would need to narrow down our goals and the number of pages. The large format doesn't allow for a true linen paper that would be affordable unless we go with a "newspaper" type stock. Obviously a larger paper would have less pages, but how easy will it be to carry and keep? Also, might want to put the schedule of events in? We would be happy to help with the printing of such a booklet.

[William Brand]

I've actually volunteered once before to do all the necessary art for a booklet. I'm just finishing the Mercury Draughts first, so that they can be included. I like all of the ideas mentioned regarding the booklet.

[CrazyCholeBlack]

not to be a downer but this "booklet/newspaper" is intended as a purchase item for the public correct, not a give away.

Personally I lean towards smaller, simpler, cheaper broadsheets. half page, single image (wood cut esque). If there is one thing to remember about "the public" is that they want the info quick & dirty & aren't going to necessarily read more than a headline & look at a picture.

Oh and Michael, jobs for women aren't in short supply, not on my watch at least you boys need fresh food stuffs (oranges, limes, lemons, fresh rabbit or chickens) you boys might need fresh dry goods, or fresh cleaning supplies (mops & brooms for deck cleaning) Some of your officers might need fancy things like paper, ink & wax. You boys might need new rope or be interested in purchasing some second hand clothes. Those are just off things off the top of my head that hawkers sold during the period. Trust me, the ladies won't be without jobs

[Ol Man From the Sea]

Silly little idea. Why not put what ever info on (the back of?) (a version of?) the Mercury Draughts? It would insure us a quality product.

[Fayma Callahan]

I have found 13"X19" Parchment styled papers that were very affordable to use. There were also smaller sizes available, mostly 8.5"X11". If we have the art from William Red Wake along with the Draughts from the Mercury, some story line background and history,then a listing of events, I believe we may have the beginnings of our booklet. It would be relatively easy to print if we have all of the files. Any thoughts?

[William Brand]

The Mercury draughts will be printed on paper at 20" x 28".

As for the booklet, there is a hobbyist that lives close by who runs an old handset type press. I am going to see if he will take me on as an apprentice and teach me press work, something I have always wanted to learn.

[Fayma Callahan]

Luck be on our side, I have found a local print shop who is willing to help us with our project and she is getting together some options for printing. I am excited to hear about your opportunity with press printing, it is really fun to do, but a bit messy. I am going to continue to look at options, but she has told me that we can get up to 24"X 36" parchment. We could look at reproductions of your fine work on the Mercury Draught as well, if you would so desire. Thoughts?