Death Penalty

[Captain Midnight]

Charity, there are no hard feelings at all on my part for our difference in opinions. You are as much entitled to your opinion as I am mine, and whether we agree or not, I still respect your right to your own opinion, so there is no need to worry about ill feelings between us.

You are correct that my feelings were born out of terrible personal experience, but I assure you, my feelings are not in the least irrational, as I have complete control over them, I just choose not to let go. If I do so, it's like me admitting that it was ok for my sister to be killed...something I will never, ever admit to. If you've never "walked a mile" in those shoes (which I hope none of you ever have to do), it's hard to understand those feelings, but when you are faced personally with such a tragedy, you will see that those feelings come naturally, and easily, like second nature. So you see, I believe that the irrationality of which we speak works both ways...my feelings seem irrational to you because you believe that I only feel that way because of my grief over my sister's murder, and I believe that people's disagreement with capital punishment in many cases is irrational due to their never having had to personally experience such an atrocity in their own lives. If this is indeed part of the reason you disagree with me, than I hope you will disagree with me forever, because hopefully, that would mean you will never have to experience what my family and I have had to, and thus, will never have to feel the grief, and utter sorrow, and rage, and hatred for someone who has hurt not only you, but your whole family.

You are right, however. I know the Bible teaches against those feelings, and I am a believer in what the Bible teaches. But as long as we are on the topic of the Bible's stance on capital punishment, I will remind you of these passages: "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed..."--- Genesis 9:6---and the passage of Exodus 21:12-26, which is the well known passage containing the call for an "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot..." As I stated in my earlier post, I never intend to harm the man. It wouldn't bring my sister back to life, and I believe God will punish him for his crime on Judgement Day. I try not to think about it much, but the feelings never go away. Can you see how the acts of such criminals can breed further hatred?

Anyway, I apologize for my long rant. I won't argue in this thread any more, because it brings up too many emotions that are better left buried for me, but I hope my post will at the very least give folks some insight as to why I and many others feel the way we do about the death penalty. Now, I'm off to discuss more pleasant topics, like POTC, or Treasure Island and stuff...

[hitman]

I'm pro (something tells me that doesn't surprise any one.)and here is why... " If a man hated his neighbor in times past and rose up agianst him and slew him ....... and this can be proven by not one witness but two witnesses then let the blood avenger come upon him"

To be frank I use this peice of scripture as opposed to "an eye for an eye" as that argument is abused way to often on both sides of this debate by some of the most feeble minded inviduals on earth.(This is not a knock agianst anyone who has posted to this thread so calm down) also it sets the precident for first degree murder quite clearly 1premeditation. 2 murder 3 proved beyond a reasonable doubt 4 swift punishment

Now some (Charity maybe) would use the but Jesus said to turn the other cheek argument however I would counter that he also said my coming and my teachings change not one jot nor tittle of the law. Beyond all this I have but one thing left to add PLEASE stop explaining that you mean no harm by disagreeing. Chairty it is your right to do so this is an ONLINE forum and no one here has ever thought less of some one for expressing an opinion held when argued well, disagreed yes thought less of not to my knowledge we be Pirates after all

[oderlesseye]

NEy there be no ill will here and yer opinion is welcome as is anyones..

As fer my pay per view crack Eye's simply thinks it's nothin new,, THe Romans did it for centrys... :) Ever heard of the collumcium? arrr my spellin hearts...

[Rumba Rue]

I held off responding to this because since I haven't had anyone I know killed by another, it was hard for me to say one way or another.

Originally I would have said I'm against killing another for another, but sometimes you have to look at what's involved.

In the case of Tookie Williams, he never recanted and never told police even if he didn't, who did. Thereby denying himself any kind of salvation.

Anyone who kills another, made a choice by themselves. They didn't have to do it, but they chose to. Therefore they deserve any punishment given to them.

[Dread Mach Brannigan]

Originally I would have said I'm against killing another for another, but sometimes you have to look at what's involved.

In the case of Tookie Williams, he never recanted and never told police even if he didn't, who did. Thereby denying himself any kind of salvation.

Anyone who kills another, made a choice by themselves. They didn't have to do it, but they chose to. Therefore they deserve any punishment given to them.

The legal system is strange and corrupted almost beyond recognition. The integrity of law, its religious roots, its transcendent quality are disappearing.

Theoretically, even if he did recant would that justify the actions taken against him? Maybe, maybe not, he was a gang leader and probably involved with others. Even though some claim he was "re-formed" behind bars, he denied himself salvation because he chose to. His fault for not speaking out.

OJ Simpson swore he didn't do it...but who did? No other suspects involved on that one. DNA samples were planted at the scene as part of a conspiricy ...Right!

[Scarlet McBayne]

I think its important to carry out the death sentence in each and every case its been decided on. What kind of a message are we sending to criminals, kill get sentenced then spend the next 7 years min. in appeals before you might or might not be put to death.

Sorry, but I am definitly an Eye-fer-an-Eye kinda girl. We HAVE to have penalties for the crimes that just maybe will make people think twice about commiting them.

[hitman]

As a question does anyone else think that project innocence is proof that there is still good in the world and that the fact we have to have them the most damning testomony agianst our current legal system?

[Jonathan Hawks]

I think you should get one chance at an appeal thats it...then bye bye....get rid of the whole life without parole...its honest peoples money thats paying to keep a criminal as a "pet"...and another thing to hell with this whole political correct BS.....you kill an innocent person ya die.....you rape a child well then ya should be locked up with alot of other criminals buttassnekid for a few weeks and then if ya live well then ya friggin fry.....if your just a typical lookit me Ima a bad ass thug then fine..ya dont die...you get some free training a free set of clothes a free really big shiny gun and a free plane trip to where ever the hell the army needs cannon fodder....and besides who better to have a tank but someone who is already good at doing drive by's , same thing just really big.....And I think executions should be public and televised , barbaric well maybe so , but a few times of watching a man cook from the inside out just might change a persons mind about robbing that "easy mark"down the street if ya dont like it then change the channel.....and while I'm at making alot of people mad at me I say we need to stop being the worlds "big brother" bring our people home and let the rest of the world deal with thier own problems....close the borders and if yer an illegal well no free trip home amigo ya go jail.....make it cheap and easy for U.S. companys to export but make it damn expensive to import goods (to hell with foriegn companys they shouldnt be our problem)...drill Alaska for oil...the polar bears and the moose will hafta deal with it , there is plenty of oil there we cant get to right now..but do it and see how long it takes for the saudi's to come crying.....ok...I feel better now....I'm gonna stop before everybody hates me more than they do already

I agree with this in that televise it all er make it public. Problem is they don't and others that are thinking of commitin don't really see what its like.

The ones that say it separates us from a barbaric civilized folk need ta remember we still are. Just not fer these types. Cause that be how they view civilized.

I also agree with Christine. Certain crimes need be confronted head on and action taken as such. Ana likes I said afore, i'fn a person was killed or harmed in a certain manner, let the perp suffer the same way with the same tool or whatever.

Also, in the project innocent thing, with DNA now they can make sure it was the person afor they sentence em.

[Coastie04]

I think it's rather amusing that we're making the distinction between 'civilized' and 'barbaric' on this topic. Civilization is nothing but a group of people living together under a set system of laws. If those laws include the death penalty, then it's not a lack of civilization, it's just the way that civilization went. 'Barbaric' practices are generally those which are viewed just as 'different than mine.' Sure, we might think that torture is barbaric, whereas a different civilized peoples might view it as commonplace, and a necessity to keeping the peace and enforcing law. It doesn't make those people less civilized, just civilized with a different set of rules.

Coastie

[hitman]

I think it's rather amusing that we're making the distinction between 'civilized' and 'barbaric' on this topic. Civilization is nothing but a group of people living together under a set system of laws. If those laws include the death penalty, then it's not a lack of civilization, it's just the way that civilization went. 'Barbaric' practices are generally those which are viewed just as 'different than mine.' Sure, we might think that torture is barbaric, whereas a different civilized peoples might view it as commonplace, and a necessity to keeping the peace and enforcing law. It doesn't make those people less civilized, just civilized with a different set of rules.

Coastie

Good point mate. Ever notice how the whole Barbaric vs. Civiliased argument never really changes much from the Romans who coined the thing. True the names involved will change but not the seintament. As to mate Hawks reply it goes straight to my point. We can but for some reason we don't. This country was founded on the princable of innocent until proven quilty. This is dependant on a vigorus defence for every one. Even the red coats who commited the Boston Massacre got a damned fine lawyer. (one of our founding fathers actually) ( and yes I know that was under British rule and truthfuly no where near a massacre.)

[Capt. Morgan]

Frankly the legal system needs some kind of major re-vamping. Serial murderers sit on death row and appeal for 15 years, eating tax-payer money, while some schmoe who stole a hundred thousand dollars from a multi-billion dollar company is sentenced for and spends the next 80 years in prison. Both cases are crimes, I understand that, but I've personally seen several convicted murderers spend 3 - 5 years in prison, just to get out for "good behavior" and return to being a thorn in society's side, dealing drugs and committing more heinous crimes... I shed no tears for executed criminals.