Pirate Swords

[capnwilliam]

Aye, Animal, wench-exploring be a fine and noble activity! But me lady wife dinna permit me ta explore any others! Ah, but she be a fine wench, so I thank me lucky stars I have her. Now, if ye be a single pirate, why, explore the lasses to yer black heart's content, by thunder, 'n I'll drink to ye!

Now, as to swords: what kind do ye have, from whence plundered, and fer how many doubloons, if'n ye don't mind me askin'?

Capt. William

[Animal]

Good Day to ye Captn. william. I too have a Lovely second mate that goes by he name of Red. All of ye swaps can view images of us at www.piratesofthecoast.com and go to the crew section. As fer me sword, I posted a messge that is on the first page. I made it me self out of a machete and if me failing memory serves me correct it was under $50.00. It has lasted me about 20 years and still be solid and true.

Fair winds, plenty of plunder, flaggons of rum and lusty wenches to ye all.

Animal

[Animal]

Good Day to ye Captn. william. I too have a Lovely second mate that goes by he name of Red. All of ye swaps can view images of us at www.piratesofthecoast.com and go to the crew section. As fer me sword, I posted a messge that is on the first page. I made it me self out of a machete and if me failing memory serves me correct it was under $50.00. It has lasted me about 20 years and still be solid and true.

Fair winds, plenty of plunder, flaggons of rum and lusty wenches to ye all.

Animal

[capnwilliam]

Ahoy, Animal! Yes, I'll check out yer sword pic. What sort of scabbard do ye use?

Capt. William

[capnwilliam]

Ach, I found yer site but I guess I was just reading into yer message that there was a picture of yer sword aboard same.

Capt. William

[CaptCat]

Ahoy all! I contacted Loyalist Arms about one of their swords, and they inform me that their arms are fit for battle (e.g. stage fights) and can even take an edge if necessary. Naturally, they warned me that banging any swords together will do some damage over time, but they seem to trust their product for fightin'. That's just "FWIW" info, as I haven't tried out their swords myself at all.

[capnwilliam]

Loyalist is sounding like the best choice, Capt. Cat.

Does anyone on this list have any personal experience using one of their cutlasses?

Capt. William

[CaptCat]

Well, I took the plunge. I've ordered a Loyalist Arms sword. It'll take a couple weeks to arrive now.

I'm afraid I won't be a good source for immediate info on their fighting capabilities, though. I probably won't be using this one for fighting any time soon.

If you're concerned about it, why not send them an email and ask the kind of questions you'd need to know? E.g. whether they have any particular guarantees and such. 'Course it'd only be their word for it, but that'd be a start.

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Ahoy Shipmates!

For those of you contemplating the purchase (or otherwise) of a cutlass, especially with the intention of engaging in some sort of staged swordplay, may I direct you to my article on cutlasses and their useage in the September 2002 issue of "No Quarter Given". As I state in the article, proper technique will minimize the damage that results from contact with other blades. The main rule is to avoid edge to edge contact at all costs. Blocking, parrying, or deflections should always be done with the flat side of the blade. or occasionaly the back of the blade. If chips in the edge do appear, they should be reduced as much as possible with a good mill file, or they could propigate into cracks, which could eventually cause the blade to snap if struck hard. Well made cutlasses of the correct period design and strength are hard to find. Most are 19th century patterns, and few are adequately tempered enough to take any serious impact. I personally carry Museum Replica's 1700 Dutch cutlass with shell handguard, made in India by Windlass Steelcrafts. It's right on the money for a late 17th/early 18th C. cutlass, but the steel, though flexible, is soft and chips easily if care and technique are not properly employed. It was only offered in 1 or 2 of Museum Reps. catalogs so I'm not sure if they're still in production.

Cordially,

Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies,

Ye Pyrate Brotherhood, LINY

[Capt. Flint]

Capt Davies... Although museum replica does not always have that sword, it is available on thier internet catalog. Also, there are several web sites that include the same as well as other types of sword. The one site below is just an example. They have a constantlyy changing sword stock. Sometimes you can find really nice swords and other time all there is , is wall hangers. Enjoy the site below ye fellow sea rovers. aarrghhhhh The Capt.

http://thepiratestreasure.com/swords.html

[golden shellback]

I'm a american bladesmithing society apprentice smith looking for a replica of cutlass to make. It will be made to the same qualities as an original pirate would use, but i'm definitly gonna dress it up enough that it would make any pirate jealous. Lots on info allready, and i think i'm gonna order a cutlass from priates tressure and see what i come up with.

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Avast ye there Golden Shellback,

A fine source of information regarding cutlass design and construction is Wm. Gilkerson's "Boarders Away: With Steel" (1991 Andrew Mowbray, Inc., R.I.). It's Vol. I of a 2 volume series covering all the weaponry you can imagine (and some you couldn't) that was used in maritime combat from the 15th -19th Centuries. As I mentioned in my previous message most of the repro cutlasses available are representative of later periods in maritime history, a tribute to the cutlass's efficiency in that it's basic design was in government production right into the 20th Century. Most of the original "cutlasses" used by Buccaneers and later pirates of the Golden Age were actually short hunting swords called "hangers", which appeared in a wide variety of configurations and degrees of embellishment. At any rate, I'd like to see what you come up with. Keep us weapon afficianados informed, and good luck to ye.

Cordially,

Captain Ian "Mad Dog" Davies,

Ye Pyrate Brotherhood, LINY

[golden shellback]

Thanks for the help, just ordered the book and i can't wait to get my hands on it.

[capnwilliam]

I'm trying to get some sword mates interested in practicing cutlass-style fighting. Not sure whether we should work with dry fencing sabres, or singlesticks. Anyone have any experience with singlestick? I'm especiually interested in knowing what sort of protective equipment you used.

Capt. William

[Capt. Flint]

Capt...protective gear is dependent on a few factors. What type of fighting are you doing? ( please explain what is single stick) What are the limits set to the fight? and how well is everyone trained at it. A helmet is a must. personally' I absotlutely hate three weapon helms. If you are doing realistic combat with any style weapon, these helms leave way to much chance for an unprotected hit to the back of the head. Elbows guards and gloves are pretty essential in my opinion. As far as body gear goes, well, again you have to decide what is right for all. Everyone has different opinions on this. Personally, I have fought with light rens and shanai without any body gear. However, for really good body protection on most light style fighting, a haul blanket cut and patterned into a padded fighting shirt, works exceptionally well. The groups I have fought with demand this minimum protection and my wife... Katey O'Tierney... made me one. It has lasted me countless fight and I have had it now for well over nine years. These blankets can hold up really well. Once you start going into the heavier weapon styles, then you will of course need more protection. Are you looking at fighting with cutlasses in a realistic fight or is it going to be staged? For steel armor... For me , my light fighting helm is 18 guage.. and my heavy steel helm is a combimation of 14 and 12 steel guage. My legs, knees , elbows, vambraces, spaulders, rearbraces, and chain male are 16 guage. My gauntletes are 14 guage. I have used a variety of swords and with them the armor changes. But, with all my heavy steel weapons, I use a full heavy steel suit of armor. I have also found a easy way to build a pair of leather armored gauntlets for all of my light fighting. I would be happy to share the pattern if you are interested..... Anyway... hope this helps..... The Capt.

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

A few words af advise about cutlass fighting:

1.)First, do some research about how it was done historically.

2.)Don't confuse it with other types of edged weapon combat, SCA fighting or sport fencing.

3.)Procure a cutlass and get to know it's weight, range , and limitations on your own before you think about crossing blades with a partner.

4.) Watch the opening beach fight in the new version of "The Count of Monte Cristo". It's the most accurate representation of cutlass handling I've seen yet.

I think a perfect, and inexpensive practice cutlass are those wooden chinese broadswords you can buy for around $10 from martial arts stores or catalogs. They're the right size and shape. Sticks, foils, boffer weapons, or other substitutes will not give you an accurate sense of what cutlasses are really like to fight with. And replace all that armor you're talking about with a good pair of gloves, proper technique, and some common sense.

Lastly, why not move this part of the "Plunder" discussion to the "Boarders Away!" postings. That's what its for.

Cordially,

Capt. Ian "Mad Dog" Davies,

Ye Pyrate Brotherhood

[capnwilliam]

Yes, I agree; we're getting afield from our sword-purchasing topic; let's take this sword-fighting discussion back to "Boarders Away", and resume it there.

Capt. William

[Red Maria]

The most authentic pirate sword I have ever come across was one that went up for auction a few years back a Christies. It was part of the Driscoll Pirate Libary auction and was found in a treasre chest purported to be owned by Capt. Tew here's a discription of the sword:

Lot # 187

[sWORD] A EUROPEAN SHELL GAURD HANGER PROABLY ENGLISH, FIRST HALF OF 18TH CENTURY

Slightly curved, double-fullered blade bearing scroll decorations and inscriptions on both sides (largely indiscernible), iron D-guard and shell form langet, staghorn grip, 24 1/8 in. blade. The present lot was found in the chest believed to have been owned by the Rhode Island pirate Thomas Tew (see lot 156)

Estimate: $1,000.00 - $1,500.00

It went for $2,115.00

and here's a description of the chest it was found in:

Lot# 156 : A heavily painted iron strong box, probably 17th century, probably German, the exterior decorated with painted florals, birds, and the occasional angel in a Spanish style, the flat recessed hinged lid carrying a large and elaborate internal lock mechanism working independent bolts and covered by a plate engraved with sprays and mermaid[?] figures, operated with a key through a central keyhole at the top, a dummy keyhole on the front panel, twist drop handles on either end, the interior painted orange and a smaller locking compartment along one side. 470x835x460mm

Estimate $8,000.00-$12,000.00

Went for get this .....

$63,450.00

Now that's something you can keep booty in!

That's the cutlass I want or a reproduction of it! I wouldn't mind the chest either ;-)

BTW Who among you use aluminum blades and who uses steel? I know that the fight diretors I know prefer aluminum

[capnwilliam]

Aye, Maria, for 63,000 doubloons for th' chest, rare's th' rogue who'd have any booty left to put in it!

Capt. William

[Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts]

As far as combat weapons, I'd suggest an arms specialist, but if ye jest wanna have one fer show, you could check out ebay. I found a really nice Blackbeard cutlass on ebay, and I think I paid about eight dollars for it. It's pretty nice for what I'll be using it for...RenFest and keepin' me honey in line--Arrgh! It's fairly sharp, but could be sharpened. It's not very high quality metal, though. It's kind of dull and ripply (not Damascus ripply, either). It's pretty much along the costume-jewelry end of cutlasses. But, hey...it was eight bucks.

You might try Smoky Mountain Knifeworks, if they're still in business. Although I don't know about the battle reliablility, they used to have some nice things. Some of them are military quality, and some not.

Also, I believe that Chivalry Sports has some reliable weaponry. A friend of mine who is a cast member at the TN RenFest swears by their swords, but he doesn't do much fierce combat...mostly pre-choreographed and completely staged. He says that you get what you pay for at Chivalry Sports. Some of the swords and knives are very nice, but I don't know about battle quality. They do have some fight props, but they look nothing like swords. They're usually padded or are made out of wood.

Most of the time, ChivSports has a disclaimer on their (costume) armor and swords to warn buyers against rough use or combat. In case you're wondering, they also have a number that you can call to ask questions...also an email address to ask questions. Go to:

http://www.renstore.com

Remember, I really enjoy trading stories with all of you, so if you do choose a combat weapon, make sure it has a good hilt and hand protection...please. And don't be gettin' liquored up with cuzzin Bubba and see who kin poke each other's eye out the fastest! Sigh.

Arrgh!

Capt. WE Roberts

[Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts]

Oh! And I just found another site that looks interesting.

http://medievalweaponart.com

Item M1863

They have a really nice pirate cutlass for $244.49. It weighs 3 lbs, 22" blade, 28" overall and is made by Windlass Steelcrafts. It has a leather covered wood handle and a steel basket hand protector. Looks pretty nice. I don't know about how it would stand up to a direct strike along the cutting edge, though. They have training weapons, too. Mostly Bokens and Daitos (Ninja stuff).

You could also check out Windlass Steelcrafts or a website called By The Sword. It seems to have quality swords. They even state on the description that the swords are high tempered carbon steel, and can accept a battle blow. They have several nice cutlasses around the $300 range.

http://www.by-the-sword.com

If all else fails, type "quality pirate cutlass" in your search engine, and you should come up with a few good sites. The only other advice I have is to just dig. Find out what others have bought and like. Contact RenFest people. Go to auctions and estate sales. Look on ebay.

My dad makes black powder period guns and very large knives himself. I don't know how. I just smile and nod and say something girly like, "Oooh, Daddy...pretty."

Capt. WE Roberts

[Black Pearl]

Just talked to Starfire Swords at the GA RenFest this past weekend. They told me that the cutlass is no longer being made. The reason was that it is too complicated to make (hence the high price tag).

Black Pearl

"Deadliest Gem in All The Seven Seas"

[redhand]

Hey Black Cat-

Did you ever get your cutlass from Loyalist Armes?

If ya did, how do ya like it? I'm interested in getting one

from them, but would like to know how someone who

already owns one likes theirs.

Cheers

Redhand

[Capt. Flint]

Just wanted to share my thoughts on those of you looking to purchase swords. First of all' I have fought against starfire weapons. They are light, well balanced ( for the most part ) and rather well made. I have also broken two of them with the swords I own. Smoky mountain knifeworks is still in buisness and can be found on line under eknifeworks.com. I prefer to use thier catalog to make purchases myself. They have a large amount of inexpensive wall hangers that look realy nice on your hip too. I strongly reccomend that you do NOT use them in any type of combat. I agree with capt. E. W. Roberts. If you want a sword to use in hard combat, get it custom made. I had my sword made by the owner of Baltimore Knife and Sword. I talked to him and told him what I need them for. The type of comabt I would be using them in and together we worked out the deigns. So far to date, I haven't broken a single one. They are great blades and I love using them.... just a thought... The Capt.

[Jocko]

Please forgive a poor sod for askin', but how much of a difference are we talkin' in price for a custom sword :) versus a "cookie-cutter" ?

The oth'r thing I'd be wonderin' is how does one go 'bout gettin' a custom sword made? You said that you spoke with the own'r of a comp'ny that makes swords... but not all of us should be so lucky... In fact, I don't think I's know of any stores/comp'nies anywhere near by where's I be livin'....

Yer 'ssistance is much 'preciated, it tis...

Jocko