michaelsbagley Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I think they are sometimes referred to as "Soulier de boeuf" if that may help you in your searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) I'm rethinking my character portrayal during the Buccaneer period in question. I'll let you know what I come up with later. Animal Ok, here we go. I found a book online while googling 1600 -1700 Buccaneer Clothing. The result I got was in google books. It is called: Buccaneers 1620-1700 By Angus Konstam, Angus McBride Illustrated by Angus McBride Published by Osprey Publishing, 2000 ISBN 1855329123, 9781855329126 64 pages There is a pretty good description of the early buccaneers and also what they later wore. To say the least, I was getting a little frustrated with the lack of information online. I guess I needed to narrow down the time period. I'm going to read as much as I can right now and take some notes. Hopefully I will be able to get a clearer image in my mind of what I want. Animal Edited December 28, 2008 by Animal Buccaneer - Services to the highest bidder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Konstam publishes for Osprey Men at Arms series. He also just did a book on buccaneers and pyrates and privateers. Be careful though, it is alot of conjecture and carrying on old myths as well as a few tidbits of good info. Ya just gotta sort it out fer yerself. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I just finished taking notes from the online book review. There were several curious things there that I thought might be true but I will with hold judgement until I read more from other sources. Right now I am thinking of doing my garb as late 17th century seaman. I'm going to try to base my clothing on one of the images Foxe posted on the 2 page of this thread. We'll see how it goes. Animal Buccaneer - Services to the highest bidder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted December 29, 2008 Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 Back on page two or three (somewhere thereabouts) is a sketch of a buccaneer from that book, or a coloring book, (can't remember for sure).... it looks good, but ....eergh.... something isn't quite right..... (I think it's the moccasins that throw me off the most...) We have pictures from later period..... but everything for the time period we are working on (later 1660's) is conjecture... OK... someone can post a good picture of a French Farmer.... or a Trapper from the period.... but is that what the English, or even the French Buccaneers were wearing? DANG.... WE DON'T KNOW......... So now we are approaching very dangerous shores..... Do we guess/make it up until we can find better information? I'm going to Shock everyone and say yes..... I have seen "garb" worn by the Early Mountain Men Reenactors... that now looks soooo wrong ...... But heck.... At the time, that was the best information "they" had to work from......until better information came along, they were just guessing also....... SO I'm going to say.... Lets "make-up" (within reason of what we do know... and work from there.....BUT be willing to change as more information becomes available.... Someone has to start somewhere.... It is an interesting period of History.... we just don't have enough good information to work from.... SO lets play with what we have, or can guess at.... and hope that others with tid-bits of better information will help us. increase our knowledge...... Hey... the same thing happened with "Pyracy".... we had a lot of misinformation, and as more people got interested, more information became available... we modified and change to make our stuff more period correct...... (Hey... look at some of the very early post in the Pub on what was "period" garb/clothing.... ) So until I can find better information, I will be wearing a pair of cut-down brogans (so they look like latchet shoes), Venetians, drawers (under the Venetians) a long shirt (un-tucked), a thin wool coat..... awh an alla my Buccaneer stuff.....Hey, it's the best that I can do right now with the information available...... This is what I wore at a Renn Faire a few years ago.... I'm going to re-work a lot of it..... but, it is the best guess that I can figure a Buccaneer would have worn..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Sea Trade Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 This will be my second year portraying a buccaneer at Searles' Raid in St. Augustine. For last year, since 17th century was a new thing for me, I decided to see what I could find that was reasonably correct to the time and place. Most of all, I decided to keep it simple. I got a pair of Dutch slops, a short linen jacket and a broad-brim, high-crowned hat. Not terribly exciting, but as correct as I could get with the resources available. Most of my gear was based on images of Dutch sailors of the era I had seen somewhere on the Pub, adding to the Dutch doglock I already possessed for consistency's sake. I agree with Patrick that, until more is unearthed, the appearance of Buccaneers will always be conjectural. What we must be on guard for is replacing conjecture with wishful thinking. You can see the results of that in much of 18th century reenacting, where what is "cool" sometimes pushes out what is "correct" or even what is reasonable. Why do so many longhunters wear their waggoner's frocks UNDER their waistcoats? Isn't that like wearing a raincoat under your blazer? Sure, but it looks cool! We must keep digging, striving and improving, as I hope to do this year and I look forward to seeing the ranks of Captain Searles' forces swelled this year with all those who have shown an interest. Nothing brightens the day like putting a Spanish city to the torch! Red Sea Trade In days of old when ships were bold just like the men that sailed 'em, and if they showed us disrespect we tied 'em up and flailed 'em, often men of low degree and often men of steel, they'd make you walk the plank alone or haul you 'round the keel. --Adam and the Ants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I was checking dates and of course, this is ONE WEEK BEFORE SPRING BREAK! ! Oh well... At least i can keep looking for stuff with ya'll. that'll be fun. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 (edited) OK...I'll try again. The last attempt to post didn't come up. Plenty of time for the planning, keep me informed and what can I do from out here in the middle? I'll be there if I don't die first! Remember...I'm a Rev War land locker here considering doing some crossover. I'll be authentic or I won't do it of course. I do earlier back to 1750 too, but I'm mostly geared for the 1760-1780 as far as accuracy in the period goes. I'll be the first to say that I would be a better Highwayman than buccaneer, but I'm there with ye! Capt. Bo Sounds like yer hooking up with that Stirling bloke and his bunch Damn pyrate hunters won't let an honest man make a living aquiring and selling ill gotten.......uhhhh honorably purchased goods. Animal Edited December 29, 2008 by Animal Buccaneer - Services to the highest bidder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Image dated to 1652, some decent details visible of common Dutch garb of that period... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) OK...I'll try again. The last attempt to post didn't come up. Plenty of time for the planning, keep me informed and what can I do from out here in the middle? I'll be there if I don't die first! Remember...I'm a Rev War land locker here considering doing some crossover. I'll be authentic or I won't do it of course. I do earlier back to 1750 too, but I'm mostly geared for the 1760-1780 as far as accuracy in the period goes. I'll be the first to say that I would be a better Highwayman than buccaneer, but I'm there with ye! Capt. Bo Sounds like yer hooking up with that Stirling bloke and his bunch Damn pyrate hunters won't let an honest man make a living aquiring and selling ill gotten.......uhhhh honorably purchased goods. Animal Dang that one is old. Nothing much has changed though. With all the horsey stuff we have I might as well stick with my lubberly impressions anyway. I get too eager to make new stuff that I'm never gonna get to use anyway. Bo Edited December 30, 2008 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Diamond Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Do we guess/make it up until we can find better information?I'm going to Shock everyone and say yes..... Godspeed, Patrick, Godspeed. There is no time like the present to start a new beginning ~ that is the beauty of it. We can always grow and adapt, but wait to long to pursue an idea, and the fire cools. Oooh, shiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit.Privateer Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Is information for what these guys wore really that scarce? I could have sworn there was descriptions for these guys. Just wondering, what is out there so far? I personally do not have knowledge because I concentrate on the 1690-1730 period. For resources have you tried hitting up such things as the Calendar of State Papers or all those documents in the National Archives in the UK? Because I have a feeling that if there is any more new information to be found, they would be in either one of those places. But I suppose to get the time and money to research there, you have to be a historian for a college or something. For people like myself here in the US who would love to get into those archives, getting the money and time to go to the UK is a little bit difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) The stuff isn't totally scarce. In Benerson Little's book, he covers the look of the logwood cutter boucaniers, the filibusters and the Port Royal buccaneers quite adequately. All of it is referenced to original works, including Dampier and the two priests who wrote books about their time with the buccaneers. For example, the buccaneers of Port Royal would first go to the taverns, then to the tailors for expensive, flamboyant clothing and then to the house of prostitution (this is taken from Exquemelin). Then they left town in this attire, only to return with it in tatters once again from their latest exploits. The fillibusters were men of the sea, so they wore a "shirt and wide sailor's breeches, and among the French and Spanish, at least, an often brightly colored sash. On their heads filibusters wore brimmed hats of felt, straw or palm fibers or perhaps a Monmouth hat or a similar French knit hat, much like a stocking cap. Some filibusters stowed a short pipe in their hatbands. Their hair was usually tied back, plaited or tarred." When they went ashore they often went with "new clothes from a prize or the profits from a cruise may have went ashore in a gentleman's laced coat, feathered hat, and shoes and stockings, or shoes but no stockings or stockings but no shoes." The Tortuga boucaniers "were functional, distinctive and reeked of the abatoir (slaughterhouse). The men wore simple shirts of linen or canvas that came halfway down the thigh, simple breeches and a casaque over all of which was a belt of cowhide or alligator skin. Attached to the belt were a cartouche box holding thirty paper cartridges and ball, a sheath holding three or four Flemish knives used for skinning and butchering, and a bayonet or machete, or perhaps a cutlass. Also tied around the waist was a length of light cloth used as a mosquito net when sleeping; when awake, boucaniers rubbed their faces with pork lard to keep insects away. On their heads boucaniers wore the crown of a hat, the brim having been but off except to a point in front to shield the eyes... (Patrick did one of these.) Again, this is all cross referenced in the book to period works and authors. I highly encourage anyone wanting to do this period to read or re-read his book. Not perfect... but it is better than many other sources out there on the period. -- Hurricane Edited December 31, 2008 by hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I'll be getting that book as well as others later this month when funds are more abundant. I think Amazon.com stock will go up a few points when I'm through Animal Buccaneer - Services to the highest bidder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivenshield Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Image dated to 1652, some decent details visible of common Dutch garb of that period... Where does one *find* a wide-brim high-crowned Dutch hat? I'd even settle for an ECW-era hat, but cannot find one for love or money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Try the "charles" or the "Dutch master" from Hatcrafters. http://www.hatcrafters.com    Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 the buccaneers of Port Royal would first go to the taverns, then to the tailors for expensive, flamboyant clothing and then to the house of prostitution (this is taken from Exquemelin). Then they left town in this attire, only to return with it in tatters once again from their latest exploits. Yeah... but that is (or should be ) a very scary thought..... Aargh... thar I be..... inna.... petticoat breaches, the foppish linen shirt, and the coat.... all looking like it's been slept in, puked on, bloody and really grungy...... Bet the chicks in Key West will love it.... Awh heck... petticoat breaches had to have been the secondest stupidest thing men ever wore ... dang... might have to make a pair..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Ok, call me lame, uninformed, out of touch but can someone post a pic or drawing of petticoat breaches???? No clue what the heck yer talking about. Animal Buccaneer - Services to the highest bidder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) And I finally found it!!! I've been looking for some French images from the 1650s and 1660s to draw inspiration from... Finding Dutch images from that period on the web seems easy, but the French images were not easy... This image from the (early?) 1660s is likely going to be my main source of inspiration... I might use lighter colours, but it is very much the look I had envisioned. This image from the (late?) 1650s, also has a lot of elements that I am partial too. Animal, I'm not the best person to try to explain this, but I'm taking a break from sewing and I'm going to try anyways... Please take this with a grain of salt and hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong. Okay, the guy leaning over the crate to the left of this image is wearing what I would think of as petticote breeches found in This old discussion thread... This old thread also seems to have some good insight... It's more reading than images, but hopefully it will help. Edited January 4, 2009 by michaelsbagley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Ok, call me lame, uninformed, out of touch but can someone post a pic or drawing of petticoat breaches???? No clue what the heck yer talking about. They are truly ugly... to much lace and ribbon bows... they look like a skirt...... go about half way down this page, and there is an example... http://www.clotheslinejournal.com/splendor.htm Pissst.... you will probably be happier with Venetians or Dutch Slops... they don't look as God-awful weird.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Yer right. They are ugly. Ok that question satisfied. Somehow I just can't see a seaman running the rigging in that get up. Maybe if they turned landlubber or something. Maybe went ter a bunch of fancy parties. Not fer me. I get enough harassment about me kilt. Animal Edited January 4, 2009 by Animal Buccaneer - Services to the highest bidder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Somehow I just can't see a seaman running the rigging in that get up. Maybe if they turned landlubber or something. I was going offa Hurricane's post... For example, the buccaneers of Port Royal would first go to the taverns, then to the tailors for expensive, flamboyant clothing and then to the house of prostitution (this is taken from Exquemelin). Then they left town in this attire, only to return with it in tatters once again from their latest exploits. I was just thinking it would be "interesting" to make a set of God awful "foppish" clothing that was worn, torn and ragged..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Diamond Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Ok, call me lame, uninformed, out of touch but can someone post a pic or drawing of petticoat breaches???? No clue what the heck yer talking about. They are truly ugly... to much lace and ribbon bows... they look like a skirt...... go about half way down this page, and there is an example... http://www.clotheslinejournal.com/splendor.htm Pissst.... you will probably be happier with Venetians or Dutch Slops... they don't look as God-awful weird.... Ugh ~ Patrick, thank you for clarifying what they are. Really quite awful, if the sketch is anywhere close to reality. Like a weird, bastardized form of ruffled underwear. Though it is interesting to note the blurring of the sexes in costume throughout history ~ men as fops, women in riding habits... Oooh, shiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Suit with petticote breeches reputed to have belonged to Prince Rupert, dating from the 1660s. From Four Hundred Years of Fashion, the V&A "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Diamond Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Suit with petticote breeches reputed to have belonged to Prince Rupert, dating from the 1660s. From Four Hundred Years of Fashion, the V&A OK ~ that looks Much better, IMHO ~ more like slops, or unbanded Dutch breeches. Oooh, shiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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