Is it just me,

[Atlantic Enchantress]

does anyone else here ever fantasize/romantisize about living in the days when pirates sailed the seas, when life was much simpler; no cars, phones, computers.... When a man ran his household and the woman stayed home to take care of her husband and children AND liked it! No worrying about credit card bills, mortgages, car payments, electric bills, insurance.....

I guess I just need an escape from reality once in awhile! My best way is to read some historical romances, especially ones involving pirates! I just finished an amazing one, where a rogue pirate captured a beautiful woman who was swimming in the sea near her castle, even though she was told to stay away from the waters because of pirates.

The pirate captain was intoxicated by her beauty, and wanted her more because of her resistance towards him. After much back and forth and adventure, the pirate finally takes his captive's virginity by force, but in truth, she was as much enamoured with him, and wanted him as much as he wanted her...

To be honest, I have really learned alot about history, terms, etc from these types of books. Aside from being a great escape from reality sometimes, they are also....educational!

If anyone can recommend some good historical romances, I would appreciate it! I'm due to begin another book LOL!

[Christine]

What is the name of that book you read? You got me curious about it now! :)

[Atlantic Enchantress]

The Flame and The Flower by Kathleen Woodiwiss

(My mistake, this wasn't the book where she was swimming in the sea, she was captured on the streets of London by the Captain Brandon Birmingham's men....)

GREAT BOOK!

[El Pirata]

Lasses and those dern romance novels. I wonder if they had romance novels back the golden age? If not then that's probably a favorable time to dream about living in....

[HarborMaster]

No worrying about credit card bills, mortgages, car payments, electric bills, insurance.....

Well I dunno about all of that., I do know however the "Mortgage" has been around a very very very long time.

[Capt Grey]

Let's see:

- the majority of the population were not the landowners; they worked all their lives for the landowner and had little to show for it

- women were chattel and had no rights whatsoever

- there was little room for love in a marriage; it was a contract between a man and a woman that granted sex to the man and (hopefully) protection to the woman

- women often died in childbirth

- children who lived to see their second birthday were about 3 out of 5

- there were measles, mumps, small pox, plague, lice, and fleas (and the illness borne by lice and fleas)

- bathing was not routinely done

- life was hard and people were considered "old" at 40

Sorry lass, I don't care what they show in the books. I much perfers the 21st century.

[Nomadicalpirate]

fleas, rats and disease aside.

at least in those times a handsome, strong, but "Formally" uneducated fellow, like myself, would at least have no trouble finding a woman and work.

I've oft pondered the bathing thing.

though the richer folk must do as fashion dictates.

couldn't the poorer folk jump about in water whenever they damned well felt like it?

(assuming water was available)

[HarborMaster]

I am 43 Does this mean I am dead as pirates go?

Now I am despondant!

i just wanted to have a little fun before I died

HarborMaster

[LadyBarbossa]

Nay... just well aged to perfection like a fine bottle of wine or good barrel of rum!

I think it's always a good/bad with this era & then. Granted in this era.. we've become rather... complicated & over stressed.

I'd rather be like a Jimmy Buffett song.Which is pretty much like most us pirates.. even the fictional ones like Jack Sparrow.. drink in hand, will sleep on shore!

[Pynch]

Personally...much as I love a life at sea...I am somewhat enamoured with toilets, modern dentistry, and deoderant.

[Captain Charlotte Savvy]

does anyone else here ever fantasize/romantisize about living in the days ... when a man ran his household and the woman stayed home to take care of her husband and children AND liked it!

No.

[Coastie04]

I long for those times almost every day. Heck with the disease and filth, there'd be quite a bit less stress. Also, it would be so much easier to escape the law.

Coastie

[Jenny G.]

WOW! There are sure alot of negative people out here!

Fantasize or romantisize means just that, the postive, carefreeness of it.

I don't know anyone who fantasizes about filth, disease of lice, etc. I think that all y'all negative nellies should go and read yourself a good old historical romance book LOL! We all need a little excape from reality now and then!

Cheers!

[Captain Charlotte Savvy]

WOW! There are sure alot of negative people out here!

Fantasize or romantisize means just that, the postive, carefreeness of it.

I don't know anyone who fantasizes about filth, disease of lice, etc. I think that all y'all negative nellies should go and read yourself a good old historical romance book LOL! We all need a little excape from reality now and then!

Cheers!

I know what you're saying, and you're absolutely right -- it's just my taste in imagining myself in the piratical days of old never involved a fantasy wherein my dashing pirate captain husband sets off once more to sea while I remain at home with our eighteen kiddies to clean the house, milk the cow, churn the butter, weave the wool, tend the gardens, beat the servants, give birth to the nineteenth kid, etc etc etc.

It's not the wishing-for-days-of-old that bugged me, it was what parts of the days of old were being wished for. I have a passionate loathing of romantic novels, historical or otherwise:

After much back and forth and adventure, the pirate finally takes his captive's virginity by force, but in truth, she was as much enamoured with him, and wanted him as much as he wanted her...

This (besides the bit about wanting to stay at home with the kids while the husband has a life) is what really bothered me. I read in a psych textbook once that the majority of rape scenes (and that's what this is, because "sex by force" is the definition of rape, okay) in romantic stories are portrayed as forced and violent -- but the woman enjoys it anyway. Oddly enough, ACTUAL rape incidents are enjoyed by 0% of the victims. (Actual statistic. Believe me.)

I'm not trying to be negative ... I suppose there's nothing wrong with liking a story like this. But it really bothers the heck outta me. I don't dream of the days when a husband could go off and see the world while the woman stayed at home and raised the children, and I don't like glorified rape scenes. The very idea offends me.

*climbs off of soapbox* Okay. Sorry. I'm done now. This is just one of my biggest pet peeves of all time (I take my literature seriously), so I couldn't help it. Sorry to all you romantic literature readers out there if I offended you. I didn't mean to offend anyone; I'm just venting about the genre itself, not its readers. Feel free to take a pot-shot at the formulaic approach of every heroic fantasy novel since Tolkien's "Ring" series if it'll make you feel better. (You wouldn't get any arguments from me on that subject anyway.)

[crimsoncrow]

Sorry lass's......But I prefer to stay with authors of more substance....Alexander Dumas, Patrick O'Brian or the more modern Dan Parkinson. Now don't get me wrong, a bit of mush here and there is not a bad thing, but when it takes over the plot's course it becomes nerve wearing.....at least for myself. Birds of Prey by Wilbur Smith held much promise until he decided to try to cram involvments with three different women into the mix and seemed pressed to do so. Just my opinion, mind you......To each his or her own.

[Black Hearted Pearl]

What I fantasy about is having no demands. No kids needing to get homework done, no bills to pay, no husband to satisfy (oops, did I say that out loud?)

Just me and my boat sailing on the open water, pulling up to a dockside restaurant and having a steak dinner.

Damn, guess I need the husband to pay for the boat and steak dinner. Guess he'll want some kids, so popped a few out for him. Rotten teachers...homework should be against the law.

[Capt Grey]

Well part of the interpretation of "do you want to live in the old days" is being historically accurate - which several topics on this site deal with. To be historically accurate you have to include the lice, fleas, dirt, hard work, etc.

Now if the question was phrased "Don't you wish you could live the life of a hero/heroine in a romance novel?" then we would know it concerned a fantasy world.

[PirateQueen]

does anyone else here ever fantasize/romantisize about living in the days when pirates sailed the seas

LOL! Most of us here on this forum, otherwise we wouldn't be here!

I know what you mean, and since I'm just interested in pirates in general, I do read the occasional pulp romance novel. I can recommend a few:

Anything by Laura Renken. She wrote a trilogy, I think the first one was called My Lord Pirate, the second Night Shadow, and the third, Heart of the Condor. Good stuff.

King of the Pirates by Stef Ann Holm was a nice bit of fluff. Honestly, I think Lifetime Network should make some of the better romance novels like this one into movies. I think they'd be great.

Don't forget to try the "classic" historical romances like Captain Blood by Raphael Sabatini or Frenchman's Creek by Daphne du Maurier!

I have really learned alot about history, terms, etc from these types of books. Aside from being a great escape from reality sometimes, they are also....educational!

I would caution against relying on pulp romance novels for historical accuracy. I've run across lots of inaccuracies in many a one! (Example, one was set in the early 1600s, but in one scene the heroine stumbled across some photographs--yikes!)

[piratelassie]

Cheers!

I know what you're saying, and you're absolutely right -- it's just my taste in imagining myself in the piratical days of old never involved a fantasy wherein my dashing pirate captain husband sets off once more to sea while I remain at home with our eighteen kiddies to clean the house, milk the cow, churn the butter, weave the wool, tend the gardens, beat the servants, give birth to the nineteenth kid, etc etc etc.

It's not the wishing-for-days-of-old that bugged me, it was what parts of the days of old were being wished for. I have a passionate loathing of romantic novels, historical or otherwise:

This (besides the bit about wanting to stay at home with the kids while the husband has a life) is what really bothered me. I read in a psych textbook once that the majority of rape scenes (and that's what this is, because "sex by force" is the definition of rape, okay) in romantic stories are portrayed as forced and violent -- but the woman enjoys it anyway. Oddly enough, ACTUAL rape incidents are enjoyed by 0% of the victims. (Actual statistic. Believe me.)

I'm not trying to be negative ... I suppose there's nothing wrong with liking a story like this. But it really bothers the heck outta me. I don't dream of the days when a husband could go off and see the world while the woman stayed at home and raised the children, and I don't like glorified rape scenes. The very idea offends me.

*climbs off of soapbox* Okay. Sorry. I'm done now. This is just one of my biggest pet peeves of all time (I take my literature seriously), so I couldn't help it. Sorry to all you romantic literature readers out there if I offended you. I didn't mean to offend anyone; I'm just venting about the genre itself, not its readers. Feel free to take a pot-shot at the formulaic approach of every heroic fantasy novel since Tolkien's "Ring" series if it'll make you feel better. (You wouldn't get any arguments from me on that subject anyway.)

I completely agree! I worked at the Gilbert Stuart Birthplace (the guy who painted GW on the dollar bill) and had to dress up in colonial costume and guide people around demonstrating the stuff in the house. I don't care how much hard work builds character, those irons were heavy. And women really didn't have much of a life back then, as you said. Oh, for a book that is serious and literary as well as romantic, involving, not pirates sadly but whaling and a woman at sea, I would definitely recommend Ahab's Wife. And if you're still looking for historical fiction with a bit of romance, Pirates! by Celia Rees is good. Lots of adventure, enough romance to satisfy those who are looking for romance, and a pretty quick read, despite its 300 some odd pages. Pretty well written for YA stuff too.

well that's me tuppence worth on the topic

[Capt Grey]

I stand corrected. Thank you, Pirate Queen.

Guess I needs t'be gettin' some specticles sos I kin read.

[Jenny G.]

Wow! Some of you women out there are pretty bitter! You must have really been wronged by some guy....

Do you knock those of us here who attend festivals and reenactments? Would you have us have fleas and disease for that? Should we reenact as it were exactly? I would imagine then that there would be no Renissance festivals and such then.

And for the one who posted about rape, OBVIOUSLY no woman would want that, but then again, no one would want to be abducted by aliens r/t , but there are many groups and novels that are all about that, do you knock them too for having fantasies?

What about all the fantasy forums on the internet, do you knock all of those people as well? For many this is a "safe" escape from reality. I am guessing that if you don't agree with them, you don't visit the site. Luckily we, at least I, live in a free country. GOD BLESS THE USA!

A fantasy is exactly what the fantasizer chooses, not anyone else. There are all types of romance books out there, obviously there is a demand for them. Obviously in r/t, Fabio is not going to come and wisk me away, so do you think it is wrong to fantasize about that too?

Sorry for carrying on so, but I get offended when people critisize others. It is our different beliefs, whether they be r/t of fantasy that makes the world go 'round. Our differences make us doctors, lawyers, teachers, plumbers, mechanics, entertainers, writers, etc.

I believe the original post here referred to a romance novel, and simpler times. The poster also wondered if others shared the same fantasizes, ones of a life long ago, in a kinder and simpler world, NOT if you didn't.

ANd for the poster who said she should ahve referred to her post as a historical romance novel times, why get so technical when you know what tie idea is? Why be negative and nit-pick just to nit-pick?!

Again, I'm sorry if I seem, well, angry, I guess I just am angry at any prejudices. Perhaps I would do well to keep quiet.....

[piratelassie]

Jenny, I definitely see your point, and agree that it is a good thing to imagine and fantasize about history. That, in some form or other is why we're all here. However, I think that it is important to realize that there is a fundamental difference between the history that there actually was and the history that many people wish there was. That said, as long as you don't mistake the romanticised for the real, which was often drudgery and completely unromantic, I say fantasize all you want. I know I do. I don't think anyone here was meaning to knock anyone, I know I wasn't, so calm down. put up yer cutlass and have a glass to friendly debate

[Bloody_Mary_Bonney]

At times i wish i could go back to the time where chivolry was respected. But still i would miss so much out my life to much

[Captain_MacNamara]

Chivalry as such was rarely what it is portrayed to have been... The Ideal of Chivalry is an honorable thing to seek, and I live by my own code of Honor, which I do not take lightly.

But still... even the "Chivalrous" men of yore were not always so honorable. And I have to agree about the "glorified rape" scenario... especially in these days and times when children are oft raised without an ounce of respect or moral value, and often read things in books, or see them in movies and then decide to go and try them because their parent(s) don't take the time anymore to teach the child right and wrong, and almost any form of discipline these days is wrongfully construed as "abuse".

And no, I am not blaming movies and books for our children's anarchy. I blame the CPS, who can take a child away from a loving home because said child recieved a spanking, and then let a known abusive drunk of a father murder his 3 month old child after repeated reports of abuse. I also blame the parents. But even still... ANY form of rape scenario should not be "glorified" in ANY *fantasy*.

Just my 2 shillings...

[Capt Grey]

Jenny G., no one were criticizin' no one. We just be pointin' out that "real life" in the old days were a lot different than them books speak o' it. Seems like we hit a nerve, lass.

Many people here participate in Ren Faires and other re-enactments. That is why we appreciate being born in this century.

Have a pint on me and let's keep this discussion friendly, eh?