Captain Rob Carroll Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Did the pirates in the golden age use piercing daggers more than slashing daggers. If they used the slashing kind were they usually double or single edged? You see I'm torn between three knives I've seen at http://www.jastown.com/ These are the trade knifeand the longhunter under the knife section and the plug bayonet under the tomahawks, and gun accessories section. Have a look at them and pick which one you think is the most authentic that a pirate would carry. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Pirates were pretty much limited to what they stole, not issued by a navy, so, most anything could be possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Aye Ladd, Try lookin' at 'em in wot would be th' most usefull.... Plug Bayonet - good fer han' ta han' combat, not so good fer workin' th' ship... Longhunter - Good fer han' ta han' combat, good workin' knife, a might big tho.... Trade knife - ok fer han' ta han' combat, good workin' knife, reasonable size... I personally carry two or more knife/daggers; 1 combat dagger, a peircing weapon, 'bout 14" long... 1 workin' and combat knife, drop point blade, made from an metalworkin' file, 'bout 10" long... 1 folding knife (kinda like th' ring back colonial knife from Smoke & Fire - http://www.smoke-fire.com/treasures-for-th...gentleman-1.asp - close to th' bottom o' th' page...) Nice small workin' knife... So.... dependin' on wot ye be wantin'.... there ye be... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhand Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Aye Dorian- Good choices! I carry a nice dutch trade knife, other wise known as a "sheepsfoot" knife, I also have a nice folder, which I recently gave to my oldest son. Two of my knives were made by Dennis Miles who made the majority of the blades for scorsese's Gangs of New York. Pirates carried what ever they could lay hands on, military, or civilian. I'm sure ethnic background and regionality also came into play here, coloring what they may have carried. Cheers! Redhand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Flint Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Well, its allready been said enough, but, they simply carried whatever they could get. But, what was available at the time was a very good variety. There were a variety of even the most basic daggers. There were different slashing daggers as well as different piercing daggers. There was a variety of eating daggers and so on. I myself carry about three knives when in garb.. I use a clamshell double edged dagger, a small boot knife and a folding knife. They all have a purpose and all come in handy........The Capt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. William T. Popples Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Me personnaly, I carry a piercing dagger about 17" long from end to end, with a handle made of braided english seine cord. It lives in my boot most of the time. But I confess I wish I had me a smaller one for utility purposes. "...Aye, lets have a few glasses-O-rum...that'll put us in the mood..." -from Tresure Island ( Radio program with Orson Wells ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 What's the difference between a piercing dagger and a slashing dagger? Don't most daggers have both a point and a cutting edge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 as a generization, slashing daggers have one sharp edge. piercing daggers may or may not have sharp edges, but very pointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maddox Roberts Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Curved knives cut better than straight ones and straight knives stab better than curved ones, but it's a matter of degree. You can stab with a curved blade and cut with a straight one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Aye, Capt. Popples, generally the big, showy pieces that look good, and MIGHT have made good real-life period weapons (depending on how well they're constructed), are NOT good working tools. More than once at an SCA event I've been asked, in the midst of big-blade wielders, for a loan of the Boy Scout pocket knife I had in me pouch; someone needing it for cutting cord or some such mundane task. I would think that a sheepfoot (unpointed) fixed or folding blade knife would be period as well, as a working piece. But then, sometimes ye need a pointed blade as a tool. Capt. William P.S. That will make for a good new topic; so let me start one! "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Captain Rob, There's also a small double-edged dagger shown in the Jamestown catalog that might be a good compromise; "weapony" looking, but small enough to be a more practical working tool. But basically, it boils down to a matter of intended purpose, and your personal preference. Of the three you mention, I personally would not take the longhunter, though I can't assure you it wasn't period. The plug bayonet would be my choice for show; the trade knife for work. Long blades, double edges, protruding hand guards lok nice; shorter, single edged blades are more practical. Hilts get in the way on a working knife, and prevent the use of a more-secure sheath that swallows most of the blade. These types of sheaths were period, for working sailor's knives. How about a trade knife on your belt, and a plug bayonet in your boot? Nice look, nice combination. :) Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Do all ye multiple knife and dagger carriers carry a cutlass as well? Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Aye Cap'n. I carry a belt knife (bollock knife for 16th c, hausewehr for 18th c with a gunner's vent prick on the front of the sheath) and a cutlass. Original 18th c Austrian blade with a shell guard and knucklebow with a single short opposed quillon. Worn on a baldric with a large brass buckle. More blades than that get in the way when I'm working the guns. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 :) Aye, Cap'n William, carryin' alla the blades wot'll fit in..couple 'o dirks, a dagger, riggin' knive wif' fid, an' an officer's sword w/ belt, an' 'o course me cutlass..alll come off when riggin' or or runnin' the guns..Sittin' be a bit noisy too, but, wot the 'eck, eh wot?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Sounds like a nice rig o' blades, Master Hawkyns. Now do take care of that 18th century sword! I'm going to have to look up "hausewehr". Royaliste, sounds like you have back-up blades to back-up yer back-up blades! How do ye walk or sit with all that metal around you? Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Hausewehr or hausfern or a couple of other spellings is a 15-18th century German utility knife. Longer than the French or English trade knife, more pointed and without the curved belly prominent in most trade knives. Mine also has quite a thick spine. Excellent as a working piece, but with enough blade to make a better fighting knife than a thin bladed trade knife. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Did you make yours, Mate Hawkyns? Are they available for sale? Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I bought mine many years ago from The Practical Goose, one of the better 16/17th C sutlers. I believe it was made by CAS Iberia, but I checked their online catalogue and it's not there. However, I'll be sing the Practical Goose this weekend at the Grand Muster at St. Mary's Cittie. I'll ask them where from and if still available. I'll also try and get some photos of my blades and post them, if I can borrow a digital. I still believe in real film, so don't have a digital yet. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I'd be interested in seein' the pics, Mate Hawkyns. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 We've done this a bit, so Aye'll mention it here..I pride those who strive for authenticity, 'tis a fine thing, indeed..As you might not have noticed, I generally dont post photos, but instead reference the paintings of my vessel, as that is what was done in 'the day'...However, some of us ain't very good artists, so,... take a photo of your favorite stuff, print it out, then treat it like a 'paint by number'...hand paint it in, and, Voila!..period paintings of your kit, wench, or wot'evr!!!....Aye!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captian Wolfy Wench Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I was wonderin' meself what kinda knife a pyrate Capt'n should carry. Knives be good fer carryin' 'round, and this Capt'n Wolf be lookin' a bit bare wif the weapons, eh. Thanks fer the tip, Royaliste, now I dun feel so contrained when lookin' to buy a knife. :) Nice knives they have at jastown.com. And they sounds like great choices, Dorian! Thanks fer the info; I like those long combat knives meself. Captain Wolfy Wench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Seahawke Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Been spyin those blades with the flintlock combination and I been a wonderin if those were really in use at ta time. Seems to me that it would have been very handy. Fire off the pistol and the blade already out. Any comments on these would be greatly appreciated. Lady Cassandra Seahawke Captain of SIREN'S RESURRECTION, Her fleet JAGUAR'S SPIRIT, ROARING LION , SEA WITCH AND RED VIXEN For she, her captains and their crews are.... ...Amazon by Blood... ...... Warrior by Nature...... ............Pirate by Trade............ If'n ye hear ta Trill ye sure to know tat yer end be near... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 My friend Renato Beluche, who is a very experienced hand with flintlocks, says that they were for real, but less popular, because less effective, than a blunderbuss; much in the same sense that a single 12 gauge shotgun shell of 9 pellets of "00" buckshot has about the same potential stopping power as a pocket pistol magazine of .32 ACP cartridges, but the shotgun is a far more effective manstopper, because firing it all at once is more decisive than firing it one projectile at a time. Also, I'd imagine the duckfoots were ridiculously inaccurate, with multiple barrels all pointing at different angles. Also, it was potentially dangeous to the shooter to have sparks flying around that could ignite multiple shots simultaneously! There's a picture of a 4-shot ducksfoot pistol on Page 72 of James E. Serven's THE COLLECTING OF GUNS, a serious work on the subject; so yes, for sure, they did exist. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Seahawke Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Thank ya Capn for the information, me b'n think'n about gett'n a couple of new flintlocks for me kit... Lady Cassandra Seahawke Captain of SIREN'S RESURRECTION, Her fleet JAGUAR'S SPIRIT, ROARING LION , SEA WITCH AND RED VIXEN For she, her captains and their crews are.... ...Amazon by Blood... ...... Warrior by Nature...... ............Pirate by Trade............ If'n ye hear ta Trill ye sure to know tat yer end be near... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billie Bonnie Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Boucan knives are interestin', used for huntin' n cookin' by boucaniers. They were made out of used or broken swords (cutlasses usually). Also don't underestimate the marlinespike .... it be nice n' pointy :) Billie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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