Pirates? So whats that mean

[robert]

What exactly is it that makes modern pirate mentality? History tells us that these men/woman were that had no redeeming qualities other than banding together.They engaged illegal activites including extremes such as out and out torture and murder to acheive an end. Has the pirate persona been hyped/morphed to something it never was by the fanciful thinking? Seems to be Likable, hard drinking over dressed scallewags with romantic overtones. The same types i.e. Dillinger, baby face nelson, al Capon are thought of today as twisted pschopathics killers yet will they someday recieve the pirate mantel and a blind eye turned to what they really were?...I hope i said this right, not trying to start a fight just trying to understand what "pirate" means presently.

[blackjohn]

Avast! If that ain't a loaded question!

Modern pirate mentality... historical pirate mentality... I believe there are too many variables involved to paint piracy with a broad brush. But I also believe there are some common themes - poverty, greed, revenge, revolution.

There are those who see pirates only as being interested in one thing - money. I think they are wrong. Not everyone is interested in money. Myself, for instance.

Have you ever read any Rediker? Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea... and... The Many Headed Hydra... at least I think that's the name of his other book. Interesting social histories. Check them out if you are looking for some alternate views.

I'd say more, but I sail with the tide!!!

Blackjohn

[Connecticut Ben]

... besides, Al Capon were nuthin' but a chicken!

Cheers,

CT Ben

[hitman]

Aye that is a loaded question.

First off one mans pirate is another mans naval hero. (I.E. John Paul Jones or Sir Francis Drake) Beyond that what you make of whom is your call as pirates run the gammit of time and location like virtualy no other group. Although we think of them as the sea dogs west of the line bringing war to the poweful in square rigged vessels would we think of a Chinesse whore as a pirate? (Ching Shih possibly the worlds most successful pirate was just that.) So do we paint these people with one broad brush as heros or villians or do we enjoy revaling in our dreams of the past. I don't know what the correct answer is but I do know that as for me I'll stick to the dream.

[blackjohn]

Another good book on the subject...

Mercenaries, Pirates, & Sovereigns. State-Building and Extraterritorial Violence in Early Modern Europe.

From th blurb on the back...

"The contemporary organization of global violence in neither timeless nor natural, argues Janice Thomson. It is distinctively modern. In this book she examines how the present arrangement of the world into violence-monopolizing sovereign states evolved over the six preceding centuries."

Blackjohn

[privateer]

jean la'fitte

very famous pirate, defended those who had try to capture and hang him. followed the ideals of america when he set up his smuggleing colony. most pirate crews had more rights than the british naval men. modern pirates ? don't know to any to ask them.

[the Royaliste]

jean la'fitte

very famous pirate, defended those who had try to capture and hang him. followed the ideals of america when he set up his smuggleing colony. most pirate crews had more rights than the british naval men. modern pirates ? don't know to any to ask them.

Due to foggy facts, I cannot look upon the brothers 'LaFitte', (Jean and Pierre) and their Baratarians as pirates....privateers, bucaneers, patriots, yes..but pirates, NO!....Were it not for their supply 'o flints alone, Colonial America may have stopped at Missouri.....Nevermind their refusal for an accord with the British!.....My appologies at deviation from the context of the thread.......

[hitman]

And pray you don't meet any privateer. Todays pirates use zodiacs and Aks not brigs and flintlocks. Some of the worst atrocites commited by the pirates of old would be the s.o.p. for todays pirates most of whom base themselves in the east china sea region. As an aside the bbc recently ran an articale that murders by pirates have picked up recently.

This link will take you to the article,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-paci...fic/3925277.stm

If I recall correctly we covered this topic a while back in the thread "So what" started by milamber, in witch some of our mates discused their experince hunting pirates there while in the millitary.

[privateer]

very true, very true .

like many have stated before, it is a loaded question. lafitte has always held a slight fasination for me becouse he was so diversified.

[privateer]

If I recall correctly we covered this topic a while back in the thread "So what" started by milamber, in witch some of our mates discused their experince hunting pirates there while in the millitary.

I might be remembering wrong but didn't the U.S marines owe alot of there "fame" to hunting pirate's ?

[Deacon Frye]

I might be remembering wrong but didn't the U.S marines owe alot of there "fame" to hunting pirate's ?

" ... to the shores of Tripoli ...."

~~The Marines' Hymn

Sir Ridley Scott had plans to make a movie of it, using Russel Crowe, but I don't think anything's come of it yet.

The famous action wasn't so much directly against the pirates as a matter of "regime change' as they say these days.

[blackjohn]

Another difference between modern pirates and those of old... I've never heard of modern pirates trying to entice (or force) their victims to join with them in their piratical undertakings.

Usually the reports say something like, "pirates armed with knives and AK-47s stole cash from the purser's safe." There's no talk of grand fraternal brotherhoods, no inquiries as to the captain's treatment of his crew, et cetera.

Blackjohn

[hitman]

Ahh Deacon you're normally more precise than that. lol Yes not only the Marines but the Navy owe much of their early fame (and at the time the reason for their excistance) to pirates. You might rember the slogan "Millions for defence but not one penny for tribute" well that is a refrence to the tribute the U.S. was paying to the Barbry Corsairs before Old Ironsides and her sisters went out and cleaned their clocks. It was while returning from these expeditions that Lord Nelson saw our heavy frigates and predicted that England would have some "trouble" with them.

[Deacon Frye]

Nelson also said of Decatur's operation to administer the coup de grace to the Philadelphia thet it was "the most bold and daring act of the age."

A very pretty compliment coming from him.

[the Royaliste]

But still, who wasn't a pirate in Tripoli??..Stephen Decatur's own ship was the 'Intrepid', a tops'l ketch 'locally aquired'!!...........(Read 'commandeered')

[Deacon Frye]

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/...-i/intrepid.htm

Photo #: NH 53249

U.S. Ketch Intrepid (1804)

Contemporary sketch by Midshipman William Lewis, with a description reading:

"The Ketch Intrepid taken by the Constitution of(f) Tripoli in Dec. 1803. Was the vessel with which Capt. Decatur burnt the Philadelphia in Feby 1804. She served as a store vessel off Tripoli and was at last turned into an Infernal in order to blow up part of the Bashaw's castle. In this unfortunate attempt she was blown up & all her crew perished. Cpt. Sommers, Lieuts. Wadsworth & Israel & 10 or 12 men. 4th Septr. '04."

The original sketch was in the possession of Captain C.W. Cook, O.R.C.U.S.A., 1925.

U.S. Naval Historical Center Photograph

Interesting mizzen, eh?