Pirate Arms

[Guest Dirty Davy Cash]

Ahoy me laddies, I was just wondering what type of models of

pistols and muskets me old pirates used, and if any of ye modern

day companies faithfully reproduce the old arms? Me self just

want to know about the firearms the pirates of old used. Me

would be very thankful if any of ye ol hearties would help a mate

out ARRRRGH, ARRRRRGH, ARRRRGH!!

[El Pirata]

Tomorrow, I will put together a basic list. I'm just too tired to try that one right now.

[Hawkyns]

Seems we did this a bit back, but me brains mush this mornin', so Ah'll be dammed if Ah can remember where it be.

Anyway, here goes for the three periods Ah do

Elizabethan 1595

Matchlock musket, fishtail butt, searbar, .62cal

Wheellock dragon, .50cal

German wheellock pistol, .45cal

Mid 17th C

Dutch matchlock musket, paddle butt, trigger, .62cal

Littlecote cavalry carbine, .75cal

French doglock pistol, .62cal

1740's

French Tulle type 'D' musket, .60 cal

English brass barreled blunderbuss, .75 cal

Sea service pistol, 9" barrel, .69cal.

Sources are all over the place. Sykes Sutlering has had a fair number of guineas from me over the years. Loyalist Arms out of Nova Scotia is turning out some excellent pieces at very reasonable prices. There used to be a company in CA, J.S. Schroter Antique Arms, where the wheelock pistol and fishtail musket came from, but I don't know if they are still in business. Track of the Wolf gets some excellent pieces, but they are priced accordingly. I'd also recommend going to 18th century trade fairs- Kalamazoo, MI in March and Fort Frederic, MD in April are the 2 I go to, there is probably one near you. Great for weapons, many one-offs from private gunsmiths and for clothing, steel, camp goods, and the little ditty bag and pocket items.

Hawkyns

[Black Deacon]

Also

Cherry's

Pirates Cove Arms

Thunder RidgeLoyalist Arms

and allot here

Dealers

So it depends on if you want Percussion, Snap Lock, Flint Lock, Wheel Lock, Dog Lock, etc. and what period you are going for. If you are going for a certain era. If you have no Black Powder Experience I recommend starting with percussion cap. And read as much as you can or find a local Black Powder club to join.

[Guest Dirty Davy Cash]

Thank all of ye!! I be loving the looks of the Queen Anne pistol me lads

The Lass be looking right smart!!

[Black Deacon]

Nice choice.

[Guest Dirty Davy Cash]

I be wondering me lads, would any pirates be using Brown Bess Muskets or Carbines? This Brown Bess Carbine looks like it be mighty handy aboard a ship:

[Hawkyns]

The Bess, or, to give the correct name, The King's Arm, was exceedingly popular. They were issued to the Royal Marines and there were specific models for sea service. Lovely weapon, .75 cal smoothbore, takes shot or ball. Very popular for hunting among the F&I and Rev War folks. If accuracy is important, though, be sure you get the right model for your time. First patterns are heavier, longer, and mostly have a wooden ramrod. They date from around 1720 up to the 1760's. Second pattern is lighter, shorter and has a steel rammer. Unless you know your patterns, the most obvious difference is the lockplate. Issued weapons have a date on the lockplate. The most common repro has 'Grice 1762' across the tail of the plate. Early patterns continued to be in use to the end of the century, but claiming to be 'Golden Age' with a 1762 musket might raise the odd eyebrow.

Hawkyns

[Hawkyns]

A bit more on the Bess. The lock is heavy and the spring is stiff. Damn near indestructable but HEAVY. I had one for a few years and eventually sold it, something I now regret. For target, hunting, or re-enactment they are hard to beat. That .75 cal gives some heavy knockdown power with ball and plenty of bark with a blank load. Kicks like a mule, though, with ball loads. Overall, it's a great weapon. Get one of the Italian Pedersolis though. For a few years there was a Japanese version being marketed. Spares are few and far between, it is more prone to problems, and just wasn't as well made.

I, like many people who do 18th century trekking (think period backpacking), now carry a Tulle fusil. Strictly a weight consideration, for most. the Tulle is lighter and the .60 cal ball makes for a lighter hunting bag, major considerations when you are doing 10-15 miles a day in moccasins.

Hawkyns

[redhand]

Hawkyns-

A friend an I who do Rev War living history/reenacting

have been shooting our King's armes at the prescribed

powder loads, but unfortunately not with buck & ball loads...

though I want to try that out!! :) Those 120 grain loads

with live rounds really pack a whallop on the target ....

not to mention yer shoulder after about 25 or 30 rounds!

Redhand

[capnwilliam]

Aye, that Queene Anne pistol be pretty, but fer boarding purposes, ye might opt fer a sea service pistol, or better yet, a blunderbuss.

Capt. William

[capnwilliam]

Speaking o' blunderbuss: Hawkyns, do any of yer mates carry one fer trekkin'?

Are ye by any chance one o' those Snowshoemen reenactors?

Capt. William

[Hawkyns]

No, I'm not with Harmon's Company, but I do have friends in the unit and our paths cross often enough up at #4. I'll miss the snowshoe muster in February because of a conflict with the winter frolic in CT. One of their secondary impressions, Church's Company, and a few of us are getting together to do a King Phiilip's War muster nest spring. We're seeing an upsurge in 17th C re-enactors in New England.

Don't know anyone who carries a blunderbuss for trekking. the big question is between smoothbore muskets and trade guns and rifles. LotM notwithstanding, rifles are uncommon in New England prior to the revolution. Everyone I know carries a long weapon, something they can use for hunting. Blunderbusses just don't have the range for hunting, especially in the 14-16" barrel lengths that most of us prefer.

Hawkyns

[El Pirata]

Thank all of ye!! I be loving the looks of the Queen Anne pistol me lads

The Lass be looking right smart!!

That's a cool beans pistol.

[capnwilliam]

Hawkyns,

That's interesting about most pre-1775 era long arms in New England being smoothbores.

Maybe you or another mate on the list would have a thought about this idea:

personally, I don't hunt, so can't tender an opinion from experience; but I've lived most of my life in the eastern hemisphere of the USA, and whenever I go out into the woods, it always strikes me that the combination of terrain (usually hilly; surely NOT here in SE Louisiana, though! ) and heavy forest means that if you were hunting a deer, it would be unusual to get a long distance shot at one: unless you were shooting across a plowed field, let's say.

That being the case: and knowing that the older generation of deer hunters like my father did at least a well with their short range .30-30's and .35 Remingtons as the modern generation seem to with their scoped .243's and .308's:

where I'm going with all this is that, under such circumstances, and given the fact that the wooded areas were even more so in the 18th century, do you think that a big smoothbore like a .75 musket was at any real disadvantage, compared to a more accurate longrifle?

At 50 yards maximum, let's say, just how inaccurate is a smoothbore? Especially when as a practical matter you can back up the ball with a few buck rounds?

Capt. William

[Hawkyns]

Most BP hunters I know consider 40-50yds the ideal range for a good shot. At that range I don't think there is a significant diff. between rifled and smoothie. Lot's of people just think of flintlocks and think of Daniel Boone and Old Betsy or Hawkeye and Deerslayer. So they want the Pensylvania or Kentucky rifles because of the 'mystique' that surrounds them. At longer ranges, it makes a difference, but at the common range, it's a matter of personal choice.

At 50yds, I can group my .62 cal matchlock smoothie all in a 5inch group. My Tulle is even better. My preference for smoothies is based on the fact that I can use it for solid ball for large animal or shot for varmint and bird. That seems to have been the rationale in the 18th c, as well. Heavily buttressed by the fact that muskets and trade guns were far more available and alot cheaper than rifles.

Hawkyns

[Deacon Frye]

I agree that rifle-barreled guns were extremely rare in colonial New England.

However, I'm not sure I can agree that accuracy at longer range would not have been useful.

In the inhabited areas, the landscape had been significantly deforested. Even in densely populated suburban areas, there are more trees today (and I believe more deer) than prior to the AWI.

Certainly rifled guns caught on after the AWI in New England.

I have to wonder if it wasn't a matter of regional difference combined with British colonial/mercantile policy.

The American rifle is perhaps the only truly "home-grown" gun of the colonial period, being originally produced by German makers who had brought their skills with them and settled in the middle colonies.

British policy strongly discouraged American manufacturing. The colonies were viewed as a source of raw materials and as a market for the goods produced from them in England with "value added", and they weren't producing significant amounts of rifles.

I think it's possible these two factors largely account for the abscence of rifles in NE in the colonial period. Once the yoke of British colonial policy was lifted, American manufacturing began to assert itself, and New England was a leader in this regard. But it took a while to play catch-up with the British. The infra-structure and skills base had to be developed, and capital was in short supply. But they eventually got there.

[Paisley]

been readin yer posts on queen anne....do you gents know where i might find a non-firing replica? don't have the time (to learn how to shoot) or funds to get a working one....just want one to shove in my sash in gasparilla.

thanks!

[Deacon Frye]

Paisley, if you search on "elegant dueling pistol" (use one "L" in dueling), you will come up with several sites that sell a Queen Anne-ish non-firing replica in the $41-49 range.

[Paisley]

whatcha think about this one?

[Deacon Frye]

Very nice.

[Misery]

_hawkins_

schroters arms has unfortunatly been out of bussiness for a few years Due to his passing. I grew up working southern cali ren faire in jeffery schroters booth He was the greatist flint/wheellock maker I have ever seen and his kits were great. he will be dearly missed

[DurtyLillie]

An what did those lovely Queen Anne's cost ye? Me and a friend be lookin' at purchasin' a few and want to know how bad we'll be taken.Thanks.

[hitman]

In regards to the rifle versus smothie debate its worth adding the diffrence between the market hunter and the farmer. To the pro the rifle was the weapon of choice. When its your lively hood at stake the if its brown its down policy becomes a whole lot more appealing (one more reason I dont like the market hunters of the past) for the common man sustance was the need not expnsive buck skins. This diffrence along with the decaons argument about manufacturing are propably the root causes for the rarity of rifles in the north east. A little off topic but intresting to note it wasn't the colt or the winchester that "won the west" it was the shotgun in the hands of simple farmers. Thier reasons for the smooth bore were the same as those of thier ancestors.

[Zorg]

Just ran a cross a wonderful link, with reasonably priced matchlocks, doglocks, musketoons, et all.

Try

http://sykesutler.home.att.net/musket1.htm

Z