Coastie04

Bad songs are authentic? Sorry, I'd disagree. You get a ship full of sailors, there are likely a few that have very good voices (maybe not professionally trained, but some people do have natural talent). Often they were the ones singing, or at least leading the shanties. I hate to use 'authenticity' to excuse poor performances. However, there are a couple of gems on the album, but for the money I'd buy something else.

10 years?!? Boy, that time does fly when having rum! Here's to the next 10 circumnavigations of Sol!

Without having more of that quote, I've got a question. The "said Dutch ship" that they were arguing about...was it in sight at the time, or were they arguing about a previous sighting? If it was within sight and they were arguing about whether to attack her or not, then I believe we can possibly infer (not conclusively, of course) that the bucket may have been there in preparation for action. However, as Mission pointed out, buckets were probably kept near the guns anyway, and they would have had plenty of other buckets available as well. Coastie

It would also be good to note that the size and ability to do any sort of smithy work would be proportional to the size of the vessel. Heck, even in relatively calm weather, it would probably not be a good idea at all to set up a forge on the deck of a sloop or small schooner. However, on a ship of the line it might be a relatively regular activity. For small coastal craft that were not expected to be underway for very long (say, a fishing vessel), they would just jury rig any necessary repairs and get them fixed properly in port. Coastie

From experience, barefoot is extremely hazardous on a sailing vessel and is not very comfortable at all on the ratlines. Then there's all the things upon which to stub your toe, such as cannon carriages, hatches, deck cleats/blocks, other sailors wearing shoes, etc. And if you try to claim that sailors would be better on the deck of their ship and know where things are has never been on a ship in heavy seas. Knowing where things are (assuming they haven't moved) doesn't always matter when you can barely stand up. But, I digress away from the topic at hand...

Mission, thanks for the additional info on the 1730s regulations. I would not be too surprised if naval vessels were cleaned regularly and thoroughly, as they had additional men that they had to keep busy. I've always believed that a lot of the fancy detail found on naval vessels was the result of attempts to keep the sailors busy: idle hands and all that... However, merchant vessels would generally have much smaller crews and only the necessary work was done. I doubt that they would have had the same level of attention to detail, though by no means would they be slovenly. Having served both in the Coast Guard and on merchant vessels today (and I know, this is not the most scholastic thing to do), I know there is a huge difference in how the crew works and what kind of menial tasks are sometimes assigned. On a military vessel, you're always on watch if needed. On a merchant vessel, when you're off watch, they have to have a really good reason to make you work, instead of doing whatever hobby you would like (music, scrimshaw, reading, etc.). As for other cleaning methods, is there any non-maritime sources from that time period about maybe keeping houses/shops clean? I think that would be a good place to start looking if people are really interested in pursuing this topic. Me, I just enjoy what other people are finding and posting. And I don't have much time or resources for good research with my new son right now. Coastie

Mission, you bring up a good point (possibly not intentionally) about giving us what we seem to want. I, for one, am not trying to prove my own hypothesis here, but instead to find out how they kept the ships (deck specifically here) clean. Unfortunately, if they didn't use any sort of sand on the decks (except maybe for traction during battle or surgery), then we'll never find the evidence. They obviously won't write "we didn't use this..." Additionally, you bring up another point. The List of Regulations was first put out in 1730, and things had not been done well previously. If we dug and dug, we might find one source that mentions during the GAoP the use of sand for cleaning a deck. However, various ships inevitably did things differently, with very little standardization. Therefore, it might have just been the one ship. If I were fluently multilingual, it would be interesting to try to translate Spanish or French (or pretty much any other European country) documents from the time. I would wonder if the use of sand/sandstone in the British Navy (and presumably merchants as well) was adopted from a different culture. Though from what I've read (anglophile based), Spanish ships were not exactly known for their tidiness (this is also post GAoP, when their empire was crumbling). I think we can say that overall ships were generally cleaned regularly (how regularly depends on the ship for sure). Of course, there are likely ones that weren't cleaned regularly as well. At least one tool used was the swab, essentially a mop made out of unraveled ropes (likely used-sailors did have a knack for re-purposing worn out gear, such as rope and sails). At least by 1730, loose dry sand was occasionally used on the lower decks. However, finding 'sand' in a ship's provisioning list does not necessarily mean that it was used for cleaning the decks, as there were other uses as well (absorbing blood either in battle or the surgery was mentioned, but it can also be used to extinguish a fire or even contain a small one, such as those used to dry the bilge pumps). The fact that the 1730s regulations go in to the specifics of how to clean the decks in various weather conditions leads me to believe that the methods and frequency of cleaning was not a standard thing prior to the document's publication. It is also worth noting that they did understand at least that dry spaces were healthier (at least as of 1730). They stressed the importance of ventilation, keeping the ballast (and thus the bilges) "sweet and clean" and even using fire to dry certain areas of the ship. Also interesting is that they had stoves specifically for the purpose of drying out the lower decks. In conclusion, I would not be in the least bit surprised if it WAS used in the GAoP, but from the evidence we've seen so far, we can't prove it. Between the sweeping, swabbing and ventilation of these decks, I think it would be safe to say that the slime and grime that we were discussing earlier would not have built up. Therefore, there may have been no need to actually use sand to clean the decks (at least on a regular basis-maybe they used any abrasive they could to clean up large bloody spots after a battle, but this is pure conjecture). And that is all for now... Coastie

Well, this is not exactly the sandstone line, but the online etymology dictionary did have this to say about "swab": So it would seem that the decks were at least washed, since they had a term for the specific mop that was used on a ship. As for sandstone, they probably had at least something to help get the tough spots off, whether it be sandstone, pumice, or just some actual sand that was scrubbed with before rinsing off. Coastie

A little google search and I found these interesting images. They're not GAoP period, of course, but on topic at least. The first one is from the Yukon Transportation Museum and is labeled "ship's forge and cookstove". The second is of the Charles W. Morgan's tryworks, where she would render blubber into oil, and the third a historical photo of the whaleship Wanderer. Lastly a photo of men building a tryworks on an unknown whaling vessel.

I would venture that for simple repairs, they might use the ship's galley stove. It might not get as hot as a proper forge, but that area of the ship would already be prepared for fires and could probably get at least hot enough to bang some metal pieces back in shape. Of course, probably nothing too fancy or ornamental, but then again, that stuff can usually wait for a port. Another way that I have heard of it being done is on deck, creating a forge out of bricks (possibly from ballast?). I know whaling ships would render blubber on deck in a purpose-built brick fireplace. It would start out as ballast in an empty whaling ship, and then could be tossed overboard when the whaling was done and no ballast was needed. Of course, the pot and all would be kept for the next voyage. I believe that the Cutty Sark (though it may have been a different clipper/packet ship that I'm thinking of for this account) once lost her rudder while going around Cape Horn. While attempting repairs at sea for a makeshift rudder, the forge was swept overboard by a freak wave that broke across the deck. This would lend me to believe that a forge might be set up on deck for anything major. I still think that using the cooking oven for smaller projects, such as nails, would have been more than sufficient, given that there was enough room to set up an anvil and swing a hammer. Coastie

Mission, you pretty much hit my point there about it being so mundane that they don't mention it. Would it really have been any different from scrubbing wooden floors in a house/building of the time period? Maybe it would have been just such an ordinary cleaning activity that there wasn't much to be said about it. I'd imagine that it was done on pretty much all boats. I'd imagine that any boat that never cleaned its decks would eventually have very slick decks due to growth, bird droppings, etc. I've met with many neglected wooden docks with pressure treated wood (thus reducing the growth potential) that were treacherous to walk on, especially when wet, due to the various plant life growing there. Coastie

Or, keep it just as is, but get rid of the icicles and replace the snow with rain. Maybe change the blue tint to grey. That should suffice until it's time to put the icicles out again, at least in my local! Coastie

Mission, that's nothing compared to a photo of a ship with stuns'ls. Below are a few of the Europa. Enjoy, Coastie

Thanks to the miracle of google working in compilation with key search words from my extensive nautical vocabulary (actually, pretty much just what you were asking for), I found the following images: Bark Europa becalmed with stuns'ls set. Four masted barque Parma in very light breeze. A very unconventional tow. USS Constitution towed away from British warships during the war of 1812. A painting of the same incident with USS Constitution. Hope this helps. Coastie

It is possible that they fired the quarterdeck gun (possibly a carriage style gun, possibly even just a swivel gun?) with partridge-shot instead of musket balls. Being a slaver, they would have wanted to possibly injure and deter the slaves instead of killing them, since that would eat in to their profit. It specifically mentions that there were many negroes drowned from jumping overboard when the gun was fired. So it's hard to know how many were killed from the gun itself and how many jumped. They may have tried to use smaller diameter balls to limit the long term damage to the cargo, but infection still can be a nasty thing, especially on a packed slaver. As for only the captain and quartermaster having pistols, could this possibly be referring to normal, non-battle circumstances? During battle they may have had access to pistols from a communal arms chest, and possibly even had their own personal weapons of choice. But, while sailing with no enemy threat, maybe some crews at least chose to restrict people from just carrying around pistols? The captain and quartermaster might have been allowed to carry for personal protection in case there was dissent among the crew when giving an order. Besides, it's impractical to always wearing a pistol or sword when actively sailing a vessel. The captain and quartermaster aren't doing grunt work or going aloft, so it would not hinder their duties. Just conjecture on both of these accounts, but something to think of nonetheless. Coastie

In addition to the stability issue that Brit. Privateer brought up caused by building up on ships, it also made them worse sailing vessels. As any racing sailor can tell you, a lower overall hull profile is faster (and thus a better and safer vessel). The more 'sail area' you have due to the hull and superstructure, the more you get pushed strait to leeward. The actual sails redirect the leeward force into mostly forward force (or just about whichever direction you want it to push depending on your maneuvering desires-but usually forward). The hull, on the other hand, cannot be trimmed in this respect. Therefore, an otherwise identical boat with a higher hull/superstructure will not be able to make as much way to windward as the lower profile one. There are definitely reasons to have high bulwarks on boats (cargo capacity, gun decks, seaworthiness in larger seas, comfort, etc.), but it does not make them better sailors. Many racing sailboats get their best speed when the leeward rail is just skimming the surface of the water. There is little to no cabintop/superstructure to them, and when they do have a little cabin top, it is usually covered by the hull when sailing in heavy weather. You can also see this in the progression of ship design. Most clipper ships had flush, or nearly flush decks compared to the high fo'c's'le and poop deck ships of the previous centuries. Coastie

Reading the exerpt, I had a bit different take on the hammocks being "down in a trice." Is it possible that due to the time of day, or it being a merchant ship, that the hammocks were hanging from the overhead and they were taken down from their 'sleeping positions' in order to help clear the deck? Getting large swaths of canvas out of the way instead of hanging all over the gun or orlop deck would definitely be helping to clear the deck. As for the furniture, during combat the small boats were often towed astern in order to try and prevent damage to them. Thus, it serves two purposes to put furniture (especially anything nice) in the boats: to prevent damage to them and to get them out of the way. As far as stowing the rest (presumably what would not fit) near the main chains, I can think of two reasons. One, it might help the trim (generally weight low and in the center of the boat is good), though it's probably fairly negligible on a vessel carrying cargo. The other reason, as mentioned above, might just be to get it out of the way in one area. By the main chains would generally be one of the widest parts of a ship, so it might just be the most convenient place to store the furniture that was most out of the way. Coastie

A lot would depend on the expertise of the blacksmith and their equipment. In general, a simple hinge is not too difficult to forge with the right equipment. Blacksmiths (as opposed to shipsmiths, swordsmiths, gunsmiths, or any number of specialty smiths) would be good at repairing broken/bent items. They wouldn't need to make a bilge pump from scrap if it broke. They would need to repair a bent or broken piece of the pump, or at worst, fabricate that piece from the remains of the original. The nice thing for them, is that once you have a good fire going in the forge, you can test fit that piece, then make minor adjustments until it worked. I think the limiting factors would not be complexity of the item that was damaged, but ability to access it while the ship was underway or the large size of the part broken (I'm thinking chainplates or pintle/gudgeons of rudders). Nails, hooks, bolts, or any number of small pieces would be relatively easy to fix or replace with some extra iron stock onboard. Arrrgh!

Mistaken identities could easily happen. Bear in mind also, that in the case of a naval vessel being sent from a distant port (say in England) in order to deal with pirates, there would have been plenty of time to disguise her. Sailors could not know every boat in the world, and thus might take a chance on an unknown. Also, the people sent to deal with pirates were professionals as well. They would know how to disguise their boats, at least from a distance, in order to lure a hungry pirate. I hate to use this as an example, but think of the movie Master and Commander. By using paint, not trimming the sails perfectly, reacting slowly, and producing much more smoke than any regular trader/naval vessel ever would, the Surprise was disguised as a whaling ship. IIRC from the books, one thing they did was to paint a facade which actually enlarged the gunports instead of concealing them. Unarmed vessels would sometimes have gunports painted on the side in order to deter pirates, and thus would want to emphasize them to potential enemies. These, as well as the use of various flags, would have been used to trick people if tricking was your goal (either to evade the navy or draw prey in). I'm sure there were other ways to trick people as well, such as false papers in case they made it on board (thinking of tricking navy and privateers here). At the same time, between legitimate merchant ships and naval forces, there was information traded in ports of call (and occasionally at sea, especially if the ships did positively recognize each other). This information could be related to being chased by an unknown vessel (and the description), reports of ships taken in certain areas, tricks that pirates were currently trying, etc. So it was a big competition between tricking and recognizing the tricks. Furthermore, there is always the chance of misjudgement or bad luck in battle where a pirate might loose to an armed ship that he either underestimated the strength of, or the enemy just got in a lucky shot at the mast, rudder, captain, etc. Coastie

Congrats on another circumnavigation of Sol! Coastie

If a mast is damaged, possibly some mast hoops would need to be fashioned. Damage to the rudder could potentially be fixed underway (rudder chains, rudder head fractures, pintle/gudgeon damage, wheel/tiller damage, etc.). There would also be a wide assortment of smaller fittings from eyebolts that would secure heavy objects to parts of a bilge pump that could potentially be damaged during a storm and need replacing.

In a modern parallel, I do believe that many vessels could have been identified in a local area. In southeast Alaska, where I currently roam, I can identify many vessels in the area by name, whether I've sailed on them or not. There are many smaller cargo vessels, fishing vessels, tugs, cruise ships, Coast Guard cutters and of course ferries that are known by almost every professional sailor in the area. And today, many ships are even more similar than they were in the GAoP. Additionally, due to a professional and personal interest, I have occasion to wander the small boat docks and would be able to recognize not all, but a good number of those boats as well, especially the particularly beautiful or ugly ones. I would also argue that many boats looked the same back then. To a professional, small differences are often glaring ones. From a long distance, you can definitely tell a fishing boat from a tug (even not towing), although they are about the same size. At the same time, I have run across people even today, across the country, who know people or ships that I have sailed on as well. In one example, a mate that I work with is the sister of a captain I sailed under on the Lady Washington years ago. So even though there are many sailors, it is still a fairly tight knit community where often someone in a crew knows people in another one. Coastie

I got a pirate CD (sorry, forgot the title/group and it's already in my car and just not worth braving the single digit temperature right now to check the name-but the few tracks I've listened to so far have been good), a hand knitted monmouth cap, a pirate coffee mug (will be well used after baby's teething starts...which is now!), some replica doubloon coins, and a Mystery of the Seas book. And it arrived perfectly on time, as we were opening presents early before heading south to visit family. Postman delivered it just as we were finishing with presents. I'll try to remember to post photos after returning next year. Thank you!

You beat me to it. But, that gas mask could come in extremely handy there! Arrrgh!

I can't wait to tell my son how many ends of the world I've survived!