Capt. Sterling

A piloting fee is well earned... for them that provide the services, after all the labourer is worthy of his hire, and who wants all them wrecked ships cluttering up any escape routes in and out of the HARBOUR... as to the Ixnay... I am sure we can come to some sort of agreement...

Now hold fast a second here... ye want me and mine to protect ye lot by manning said fort (next ye will be wanting us to build it as well)... ye want me and mine to arrest ye on occasion to give the appearance of things being on the up and up...(I reckon that means I needs add a gaol to my list of dependencies on the plantation grounds) And yet the only thing me and mine get out of the bargain is to have my daughter threatened with harm whilst I am away ..um...requisitioning merchandise for my father's trading empire? Hmmm seems this proposition is decidedly listing in one direction and not mine. Oh by the by Bo, Animal, Patrick and other supposed social outcasts of the village....hunting party Sunday after church ...the hoards herds of deer need thinning along with the rafters of turkeys .... too much meddling about in the corn and tobacco...

Ah, 'son' is in charge of the procurement department, I take it? **cough...cough** Ahem...

Hmmm I thought Habour Masters were some what synonymous with Tax collector??

Thanks for this as well, have had it beaten into my brain that "even the King and high ranking nobility only owned a few garments for our time frame"

So now the second picture of the California landing is questionable for our time frame...unless we run across some primary source discussing the clothing itself..

Right then so much for the fringe debate... I have found a copy of the second Rogers print with the ladies at the Hulton Archive which gives the following info: Title: Pirate Rogers Caption: Circa 1710, The pirate Captain Woodes-Rogers and his men stealing jewels from a group of women in the neighbourhood of Guiaquil. (Photo by Hulton Archive/Getty Images) Date created: 02 Jan 1754 Editorial image #: 51241197 Restrictions: Contact your local office for all commercial or promotional uses. License type: Rights-managed Photographer: Hulton Archive/Handout Collection: Hulton Archive Credit: Getty Images Source: Hulton Archive Release information: Not released. More information

I believe the second Rogers print with him supposedly in the center in frock coat, which also shows what looks like a double breasted coat on one of the sailors is from the period...as I believe it was used to discuss a case of fringed waistcoats in an earlier Twill thread, between Kass, and Gof...there was also some discussion as to what the women actually were wearing about their necks...

sniggering...

Right then AR here... would not the term be Pilot?

Hoping along with you...keep us posted

Rather like the Misadventures of Mission...or How the Ship's Surgeon Truly is the Scariest Pirate on board...

I can post a few more pictures of the brown coat...give me a few days...

Woman's waistcoat, embroidery and fringe trim ca. 1700 Origin: England OL: 24"; Waist: 26"; Width across back: 13"; OW: (folded) 16"; Cream tabby linen front, back and linings; silk embroidery threads; light brown linen fringe. Gift of Mrs. Cora Ginsburg. Acc. No. 1989-435 Lady's sleeveless embroidered waistcoat has a scooped, rounded neckline and shoulder straps. It is fitted through the body, tapering at the waist, and flares out at the hips in rounded skirts. There are no fasteners on the front edges. The waistcoat is of cream linen embroidered overall in a scalloped pattern with tan silk thread, and further decorated along front edges and on back with multicolored flowers, leaves, vines, and scenes. The front scenes show 2 mirror images of a bush with pink flowers, a gray bird with yellow and blue wings, and a lady dressed in similar colors with an apron of yellow and russet. The back has 2 red birds on the skirts, which are also surrounded with similar floral patterns to those on the front. The garment is constructed with a center back seam and side seams which open with 10" vents at the skirts of the garment. Woman's waistcoat, quilted 1700-1725 Origin: England OL: 19 1/2" Waist 21 3/8". Cotton quilted with yellow silk back stitches; cotton lining. Gift of Mrs. Cora Ginsburg. Acc. No. 1991-509 Girl's or small woman's sleeveless waistcoat of white cotton, quilted with back stitches in gold color silk in a pattern of slightly scalloped diamonds with interwoven ribbons and daisy-like flowers at the points of the diamonds, with various fillings of scrolls, cross hatchings and flowers. Waistcoat has low neckline with narrow shoulder straps; eight eyelets on each side of the center front for lacing closed, with rounded fronts and side hip panels. Lined with white cotton. Possibly worn with separate stomacher (missing). Edges bound with tabby cotton, probably same fabric as face fabric. Label: Woman's or Girl's Waistcoat England, 1700-1725 Cotton, silk embroidery, and unknown filling Gift of Cora Ginsburg, 1991-509 Ink outlines for the embroidery and seam lines indicate that this waistcoat was embroidered to the exact shape needed for the finished garment; time-consuming embroidery was not wasted where it was not needed. Quilting and embroidering with pale yellow silk on a white ground was especially fashionable in the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries. The style originated from imported Indian embroideries that used naturally yellow tussah silk. Woman's waistcoat, quilted silk satin ca. 1700 Origin: England OL: 24" from shoulder to hem. Waist 22 1/2" Quilting pattern grid approximately 3/8" to 1/2" wide, forming small diamonds. Length of tie ribbons varies 7" up to 9 1/2". Silk satin, quilted with silk running stitches through thin wool batting and linen backing. Gift of Mrs. Cora Ginsburg. Acc. No. 1991-510 Woman's sleeveless waistcoat or bodice made of cream-color silk satin quilted in small diamond pattern to natural linen back using 8-9 quilting stitches per inch. Wide low neckline, with back straps brought around to front and tied with bows to front bodice just above underarms. Garment opens down the front and is tied with four one-1/16" silk ribbons. Garment has rounded fronts below the waist and rounded hip vents. Back center seam and rounded center back vents meet at waist. Interior linen strips sewn vertically over seams at center back and under arms for boning. Provenance: Ex Coll. Mrs. DeWitt Clinton Cohen

Ah...not seen this print as of yet, and more of what looks to be double breasted or at least two rows of buttons down the front of the coats...thanks!

William Booth has some lovely wool broadcloth that need not be hemmed... my black and silver coat was made with his fabric and that is entirely raw edges except at the neck...which is bound as per the period, which was most likely done due to the constant rubbing at the neck....

Agreed, linens, and silks and indian calicos were hemmed... and woolens were not in most cases...(I have not seen a clear enough picture of woolen bed hangings from the time frame to see if they are hemmed or not), they did not need to be as the weave on the fabrics appear to have been much better than the woolens produced nowadays... all the woolen garments I have seen from the period have had raw edges both bottom and along the length of the fronts, cuffs and pockets... of course now someone will come along with an extant example of one that is hemmed.. The problem being that nowadays, many of the wools folks wish to use are tropical weight, and those just don't seem to hold up ...so the choice would be hemming or showing an unkempt, raggy raw edge which you just don't see on many extant garments..

....again

Ah don't worry... Cousin Robbie will save you

ummm quite right...once was enough with that

Mr. Hand why do we hem anything? to keep the fabric from unraveling...if it unravels we soon have nothing left... now if the fabric is woven well enough, like some woollens were during the time frame, hemming is not needed because they do not unravel or they wear really well without hemming... so hemming if you want certain fabrics to last longer is necessary...

But Jill, dear Lady, he did give the opportunity for you to lead...

too true...good point

How would one know which is more appropriate since both terms go back to the middle ages...? do both terms actually refer to the leather device or only the strop?

Mr. Bottles are you going to say happy birthday at least???