Phillip Black

Ah heh heh..that site not exactly bein' work-safe! heh! I really be lookin' forward to me sig now!

As far as striking it rich goes, tales of Thomas Tew and Henry Avery coming away with the Moguls riches must have at least turned some of their heads! But, I'll admit that they probably didn't expect to become pirate king/princes or anything like that. Oh, and ramble on! I'm enjoying this discussion!

Interesting topic! I was surprised to see the amount of people who are/were habitual fist-fighters. I was in one fight in the fifth grade. He was the class bully, was twice my size and to this day I can't believe I did it. I got pounded, but not before I gave him a black eye. I've also had some "fights" that ended with me punching once, and then it was pretty much over. I'm not bragging, it was pathetic high school stuff. Now, I always try to diffuse the situation with humor as much as possible. I also love to use the expression, "fights are for kids, people our age commit assault." Then I usually make a comment about how I like their car. It's worked so far. Not that I get into that many "fight" situations!

This thread intrigued me, so I dug through all my books and found an interesting contradiction. In the book by Douglas Botting, The Pirates circa 1978 (a Time Life book from the series, The Seafarers) that you mentioned, it begins by showing several woodcuts made for the 1725 edition of A General History of the Robberies and Murders of the Most Notorious Pyrates. Then later in the book it has a section on piratical flags that match the ones you've listed above. What is strange is that they are different. Henry Avery's woodcut shows only crossed bones for the flag in the background. Stede Bonnet's woodcut shows the crossbones overlayed with a skull, but no dagger or heart. Bartholomew Roberts' flag is only half shown in the woodcut, but appears to match the flag shown later in the book of a skeleton holding an hourglass with a sailor? Of course the woodcut artist had license to create whatever he so wished based on Johnson/Defoe's notes...but still... It is very strange, and I'll keep an eye out for this stuff in the future.

Much obliged! I be lookin' forward to it!

Excellent, thanks for the info! Any idea on when we might be seeing this on our TVs at home?

Me wife made a wager to me that I couldn' a tell a difference betwixt Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum and Admiral Nelson's Spiced Rum(a cheap knock off). Well, she made me taste blind a mug o' grog for each, a shot o' each and a rum & coke for each. Well, shiver me timbers, she was right about the rum & coke! Blasted wench got me good she did. I made me choices and I was spot on for the shots and the Grog, but dead wrong on the cokes. Me wife be wanting to buy Admiral Nelson's to save a shilling or two, not that it make no difference when I just be takin' it in prizes while pursuin' the trade...Still, when addin' a little cola to yer rum, Admiral Nelson's and Captain Morgan be very much the same. If ye be makin' grog or drinkin' it straight though, ye best be drinkin' the Captain Morgan. This of course be sayin' nothing about the good Captain Morgan's Private Stock, only the spiced rum. Then of course there be Pusser's, which we can't even be comparin' without swearin' many a foul oath! Arrrr, I best be gettin' to me hammock, me head still be achin' from all that taste testin' last night.

This is very amusing! I love it! Me pirate name be: Red Eye Chuck !!

Skull pyrate Carter, if that be yer work there for Finn, I would be very much grateful to your generous skill if ye'd be makin' one for me as well? I too not be havin' a picture of me pirate garb yet, just gettin' started ye see... Just something with me motto (current sig stolen from Captain Roberts) and mayhaps some jolly rogers and a bonny lass or two!

Le sigh...I would really really be looking forward to this game, if I knew that I wasn't going to have to go out and spend a few hundred dollars to get a new video card just to play it! It looks fabulous, but all that eye candy costs. Excellent concept though. Pirates works extrememly well for the mmorpg environment I think.

John Rakham aka Calico Jack with Bonney and Read could make an interesting movie, but for a spectacular finish/ending Blackbeard and Roberts would be my choice!

I guess I would have to say Captain Edward England. I admire his principles in giving prisoners good treatment, even to the point of being overthrown by his own crew...as I would no doubt be were I a pirate captain. I could definately say who I don't identify with, and that is Edward Low. That guy was a real bastard.

Me mates and I be playin' a round of Pirate's Cove tonight. It has become a favorite of my group because it has a limited time frame. At the end of 12 turns, whoever has the most fame becomes the most notorious pirate and wins. This way you don't end up with those games of risk that go on and on and on... Skull & Bones is fantastic. I'll be running a one-night wonder this weekend for that as well. Very well put together game. The Buccaneers & Bokor e-zine put out by Adament Entertainment continues to release new material for it quarterly. Pirates of the Spanish Main from Wizkids makes the coolest little ships and the game is quick and easy. Definately a beer and pretzels style game though. Eagle Games out of Plainfield IL is developing a board game adaptation of Sid Meier's Pirates! Isn't due out until March of 2006 though. Good luck making your game!

Well cheers to that mate! Wow! Thanks for the insight! I guess I took a lot for granted while reading Marcus Rediker's book, and also Frank Sherry poses the same ideas albeit less strongly. Those are very interesting figures about the percentages on board the RN ships. The quote too, is rather enlightening. I also never heard of the compensation systems and hospitals in place for seamen...This give me great pause for thought. Well, you and Mission have made a believer out of me, I need to get back to the books! I've just added "Wooden World" to my Amazon wishlist. I think I've been too narrowly focused on only pirate related books and need to widen my library to history on the whole period. Unfortunatley, I've only bought a few books on the list above. most, including Rediker, Sherry, and a few others were the few books available on the subject from my local libraries. Can't wait for Christmas! Thanks for your patience!

Ha! Thanks for the tip, I'll definately check the site out. And I'll make sure to tell "dt" what you said if I post!Botting was a very interesting read, I discounted the book at first as just a lot of pretty pictures seeing as it was a Time Life book, but it turned out to be quite good. If you can find it, I recommend it. It was one of a series called "the Seafarers." I haven't read any of the others though... Well, I'm actually very glad for your point of view, because I've been reading a whole lot, but not discussing it. Thanks!

The books I've read thus far on the subject: Under the Black Flag: The Romance and the Reality of Life Among the Pirates by David Cordingly Villains of All Nations: Atlantic Pirates in the Golden Age by Marcus Rediker Raiders and Rebels: The Golden Age of Piracy by Frank Sherry A Nation of Pirates : English piracy in its heyday by C. M. Senior The Golden Age of Piracy, by Hugh F. Rankin A General History of the Robberies and Murders of the Most Notorious Pirates by Captain Charles Johnson (unfortunately, I haven't been able to get my hands on the Dover edition yet.) The Pirates by Douglas Botting (This was a cool little harcover Time-Life Book I managed to find at a used book store) There were a few others...which I can't remember off the top of my head. The other David Cordingly book, the fiction short story collection by Howard Pyle(this one recently became public domain) etc. I'm very much looking forward to Angus Kongstam's book, it's on my wishlist with a host of others. I've just started getting into pirates, so I'm still new. Despite the few books I've read on the subject, I've come across a host on contradictions already, so who knows what is really true. You pose some very interesting points, and I suppose that I've come to conclusions about the era a little earlier than I should. Rest assured I'll be re-thinking these things while I continue to read more! As for underlying social changes in the era, I can't remember exactly which book or books , but I remember reading that in the latter part of the golden age of piracy, conditions aboard ships and for sailors improved and it may have been a factor in the reduction of piracy. In the end, I suppose the cessation of collusion between colonial governors and pirates was a determining factor as you said. Anyway, thanks for adjustin' me course!

Sorry! I'm not saying you don't like pirates! I know we all do, else we wouldn't be here! I didn't notice the "agenda" you speak of in Marcus Rediker's book(maybe I was just too enraptured with the stories about pirates), but I've read two books by Cordingly and I'm just finishing the General History by Captain Johnson or Daniel Defoe (depends on which theory you subscribe to). I really enjoyed reading the general history because every book I've read up until now used only the past tense when talking about notorious pirates, but Captain Johnson's accounts use present tense! It's been a great, although somewhat slow-going read, as it takes me longer to read the old english. I also wholeheartedly agree that life on a pirate vessel must have been difficult, even more difficult than on a merchant or navy vessel and the punishments harsher (usually torture, death or marooning...). However, There is also evidence that any captain or quartermaster found to be abusing that power would be removed by the crew, especially if said captain was found to be lacking in the plunder providing department. So, while life may have been hard for them, there was at least some control over their destiny, even if it was illusory. The hanging of pirates took place throughout the golden age of piracy and the punishments meted out to pirates that were apprehended changed little during that time, but the prospects did. The golden age of piracy was most profitable because there were few warships to enforce, and even those that were in the area often surrendered or fought poorly due to lack of morale, and most merchant ships surrendered without a fight and even had large groups, if not the whole crew, desert to become pirates. This, it would seem, is because the pirate life, albeit a criminal and tough one, was a better alternative to service on a merchant ship or for the crown (Although this can be contended with the idea that they were threatened into service of pirates as many were). So when the pay and conditions improved for the common sailor, he had a reason to not be a pirate if fate should cause them to encounter one. While the "cracking-down" on pirates by the royal navies and governors most definately eliminated the majority of piracy, I don't think it would have been effective without the underlying societal changes taking place. Perhaps you can shed some light on this, but I found it really interesting that pirates had workers compensation and a democratic voting sytem in place. Surely, that had to be unique among the world at that time. I guess it is just hard for me to condemn a pirate as a common criminal because of those factors. They may not have been rebels and revolutionaries in the sense that they changed the world for the better,but certainly they were pioneers of democracy and equality, or at the very least extraordinary criminals! Thanks for the suggestions on the books as well. I love reading about pirates lately,(can't get enough), any suggestions you have would be very much appreciated!

Mission - I have read Raiders and Rebels as well, but I thought it was rather good. In a similar theme is a book by Marcus Rediker called "Villains of All Nations: Atlantic Pirates in the Golden Age." Being that this book was written post 9/11, he takes a fair amount of time to make comparisons of pirates as terrorists, but also places the same emphasis on the idea that although pirates were criminals they were also rebelling against a corrupt authority. It's easy to condemn pirates of the golden age as bloodthirsty, greedy simple-minded criminals when examined from a modern western educated perspective. Certainly there were many awful criminal pirates in history, Captain Edward Low comes to mind off-hand, but there were also many who just were trying to make a better life for themselves and escape the rigid class system in place with what limited abilities they had. A navy or merchant sailor only made around $1750/year in modern equivalent money in those days, were regularly shorted rations and abused. I think that if we paid our navy sailors today that little and abused them, they might become pirates as well. Perhaps the strongest case for pirates not being simple criminals but rebels against a cruel and unfair system is how piracy ended. Only when merchants and navies began treating their sailors better than the pirates, were they able to eliminate them. I've only read about 7 or 8 books on the subject so far, but from what I can gather, they were rebelling agains a corrupt authority through criminal means. They're still criminals, but I do believe they chose that life because they were placed between a rock and a hard place so to speak.