Monterey Jack

I Need ter be takin a look see at that one! Sounds like a belly buster! It really is, especially when they finally rig up a way to move the pirate ship across the prarie. There's a shot of the little boy looking out the window of his house and the ship is "sailing" thru the wheat fields.

A big shot of Louisiana Hot Sauce. Keeps me stomach in shock between meals........

Curry immediately became one of my favorite Hollywood-pirates after that! Did you happen to catch him in "Pirates of the Plains"? Pretty much the same character, only a little darker, and is transported ship and all to 20th century Kansas (at least I think it was kansas). The best part was watching him try to negotiate all the modern conveniences from an 18th century point of view!

I have to say its good to see the "live and let live", or more appropriately "dress and let dress" attitudes out there. With my history of ren faire, arguably one of the least correct venues for authenticity, I've had my share of people telling me I'm not period while sporting items 100 years out of date. My original question was sparked primarily by folk in fantasy piratical garb complaining about the lack of historical pirate groups to join. I hope it wasn't taken that I was forcing folks to take a stand one way or the other. I was more curious about where folks are drawing their own lines, if at all. I prefer the historical, but will add flashy bits now and then; the only time I have to step away from that is when dealing with other Western Martail Arts Instructors who hear "cutlass" and automatically assume "costumed nut-case with a sword". That's when the extremely plain 1800s garb comes out, which in some respects already looks like a fencing instructors outfit. Thanks again for all the input on this topic!

Thanks for the lead, Patrick! I've been following your Buccaneer Project as well and have to say its coming along great; congratulations on the in depth research; the results are impressive!

My wife's best friend had the capper to em all; When told by a guy at the bar "honey I have everything you need," she responded, "Yeah? You got three speeds and heat?"

Chaotic Neutral; always..... in roll playing and , sometimes to my undoing, in life as well....

Could be Parrot Bay. Ye have t' turn th' bottle around...... :)

I grabbed th' first bottle out o' the box when it showed up at my local store ; I like the captain but this one tasted too much like alcoholic Dr. Pepper to me.

That's exactly the type of thing I mean, Foxe. We have loads of mountain men here in the US who disappear into the forests for weeks on end in the summer and even go hunting in period 18th century style in the dead of winter; so I figure there must be someone who's thought of re-creating the buccaneer lifestyle. Good luck with it; I suspect we'll all hear how it turns out!

That's exactly where I find myself right now. I've been doing western martial presentations of boarding weapons for 3 years now;most recently under the new HMCA, but I got my start on the ren circuit 17 years ago. Its embedded in me to play as well. As far as I can tell if I intend to be taken seriously at instructing I almost have to divorce myself from the "pirate" image, even though 98% of my students all show up mumbling "arrrgh."

Do you mean buccaneer, or pirate? Well, either way, my group tries to be a "living history" group dedicated to the 1680s-1720ish era. I was referring to buccaneer groups that set themselves up similar to the Rendezvous folk; dress it, live it, suffer thru it for weeks at a time, basically recreate every step along the way to living the way they actually lived. Hard to do in the states, where you don't have the climate and conditions of Hispaniola, let alone Hispaniola of 1650-1720 but someone may be attempting it.

Sounds similar to what I do for my Boarding Weapons Classes. Pretty much a very tame waistcoat and breeches from 1800, officer's boots, black neck stock and a simple belt with the British "snake" buckle. I find it pretty much sets the correct attitude between the instructors and the students. We get everything from folks in sweats to Hollywood pirates at the workshops but the gear we wear, plain as it is sets us apart as the instructors. (That, and we're holding all the weapons for the first half- hour!) We reserve the more "fun" costumes for other laid-back gigs. BTW, you can see some of the shots of the boarding weapons class at maritimecombat@yahoogroups.com for anyone interested.

I don't think I've ever started a thread with this much input! Thanks to all of you for your insight into this thing. It seems the most common way to go is to start off historically and add the bits you like, keeping in mind what event you are planning to attend, the folk who you'll be accosting...er...aproaching, and the rules applied therein. I may be wrong, but as far as I can tell there are no truly "living history" piratical groups out there the way there are Rendezvous, Black Powder and Mountain man groups, though I'd love to hear from a living history buccaneer group if one exists. The group I'm working on is part educational demos of 17th-18th c. maritime weaponry, but also family-oriented and so must also be flashy. I like what was done in both PotC and Cutthroat Island so far as the costuming, so I think that's where we'll head our group; as I think someone stated already a bit of mix between 17th and 18th century. Don't let this post stand in the way of continuing the discussion, though!

Hello the List! Over the last few months, having attending various pirate-related events and small gatherings, I've oft heard folk say they are looking for pirate groups to join, but want to avoid the "Hollywood" pirate image. This most recently came from a younger couple who denounced the Hollywood image, yet sported fantasy doublets and bodices, big black hats with huge plumes, the most sparkling swords and knives you ever saw, and had names based on fantasy characterization. The man looked like the Captain Hook after a visit to Fredericks for Men and the woman like a piratically possessed Lara Croft. If they wanted historical, wouldn't they have been a lot plainer in dress and a lot ...well..dirtier? So my question is (and I am quite serious and confused) is what is the general consensus of Hollywood versus Historically accurate in costuming and characater? For example, I have what I consider garb for both types. My buccaneer outfit is entirely made from the proper materials found at the time, the clothing is not new looking, but lived-in (it ain't pretty!), the leatherwork is all extrememly basic and the weapons are relatively boring looking but extremely functional and proper for the period. The sash, the slops, and the footwear are all close approximations of a late 1600s-early 1700s inhabitant of Hispaniola. That's the proper look, but is really unappealing to any but historical folk. Now, my other outfit is entirely hand made from leather (even the 1750's officers coat) the button are made from English coins, the weapons are prettier and the breeches and boots are clean and god looking. The costume jewelry abounds and decorates the Officers gorget I hang with em. This is less likely to be found on anyone of the period, at least not in this condition and to my knowledge British officers never had their uniforms made of leather. I would consider this to be the theatrical version. So, those of you trying to be flashy and theatrical: How much historical stuff do you incorporate? Those of you going for historical accuracy: where do you stop and how do you resist the temptation to add flashy bits you know your character wouldn't be able to wear? Sorry for the legthy post, but as my group starts to come together I need to know where to draw certain lines to have a treasonable amount of cohesiveness among the crew. I'll be off the forum for a few hgours, but am looking forward to reading your responses tonight. Thanks all for the input!

My favourite Billy Bones has to be Oliver Reed; funny though, I can't remember who played Silver. The Hyacinth Macaws (Big blue ones with yellow beaks) bring the most money. My home town pet shop had three of them...huge birds...stolen in one night. Out fer the night; got a pub to crawl to; G'night all`

I think he had a parrot, just not sure if he started it. The movie made sense to me, but then I'm a big reader as well, and knew what it was about beforehand. I have seen movies where if you haven't read the book it takes you awhile to "catch up" to the story. That may have been the case when you saw it.

Labels aren't necessarily a bad thing; they are used in all societies by all levels of society to distiguish and separate, to set apart, which by your choice of words, nickname and even your stand on certain topics you've done to yourself. You wish to be seen in a certain way; we all do. Its not a big deal, unless you choose to make it so. Now, back top the topic, where did the bloody "parrot on the shoulder" come from?

I don't know that its sad; unfortunate from an historical standpoint maybe, but Newton's character helped create the stereotypical "pirate" that so many re enactors have adopted over the years, and that kids everywhere idolized alongside Errol Flyn, Basil Rathbone and Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Nowadays Hollywood gets a bad rap for its theatrical representation of history, but in the case of Pirates it kept the history alive, even though seriously embellished, until the re enactors could pick it up and run ...er, sail with it. Just figure, scruffy, dumpy Mr Newton was the 40s version of Johnny Depp.

It started out with Disney's version of Treasure Island. The actor Robert Newton, who played Long John Silver used it in place of "aye" and it stuck. He then went on to star in Disneys TV series about LJS and kept doing it along with "harrrr", "uhrrrr" and a couple other sounds he felt were surly. Aaarrrgh (actually just "arrrh") became what an entire generation associated with pirates.

I admire your research! We've been instructing in maritime boarding weapons for a couple of years now and came to the same conclusions. The classes we teach rely less on simple miltary style drills or Hutton, Lonergan, Waite, Corbsier and Angelo (though we consider them primary resources )and are more geared to mixing weapons styles and techniques common to the average crewman; one who, while he may have been exposed to naval sword exercises, is more at home brawling, knife fighting and grappling. It paints a bigger picture overall of the actual potential of this weapon once you stop thinking of it as a fat saber. Its a bit off-topic for this forum, but we have a similar conversation going over on Capt. Twill's forum.

Apologies for the really lousy spelling on that last post; I've only been awake for about 5 minutes.

Those are pretty neat, and a full tang is nice. I seem to recall seeing something very similar in Swords and Blades last night. I'm curious, if the two of you came up with the design, and he built them, why not come up with another design, a little more appropriate to 1715, and build more??? I just sent him the design I wanted and he took it from there, with a couple of test runs. We traded photos back nd forth for about a month. If you have something specific you can send him the idea and he can likely build it for you. Also, I've had some nice pieces that had lousy blades, and he refit the existing hilts with fightable blades, so you have that option as well. Say you like a sabre that Dixes guinworks has for $75, but it's not combat worthy; buy it ans ship it to him and for about $100 he'll refit it for you. Working blade at reasonable cost.

Going thru my early rapier phase I couldn't stand Silver; after re -reading him and working a bit with Steaphen Fick from DEMAS I can really appreciate his work. And you're spot on about broadsword to cutlass; it's what Angelo used to base his cutlass work on. In fact much of the 19th century military sabre work comes from broadsword and backsword, so its not surprising that it ended up being the training technique for cutlass when they finally got around to teaching it aboard ship. If you ever get the chance to study with him, take a clas on I33 from Maestro Sean Hayes. He is working the I33 stuff in depth and has a lot to offer. Of course I'm relatively biased since we have a beer together a couple times a month, but he is making some serious inroads to breaking down the text. I understand your use of the flat entirely now; your application makes good sense in transistion from one position to another. And its always interesting to find that there are often serious correlations between Western and Eastern technique.

The Maritime Combat list at Yahoogroups is set up for all types of discussions of 17th -19th century maritime combat weaponry. As we get closer to publication we'll be sending out notices more often. Introduce yourself when you get there, we'd love to have ye!