kass

I know plenty of Roman reenactors here on the East Coast. Not a single one of them is doing anything Biblical. The Romans have much better historical records than that.

You're a sick bastard, Foxe. But you do have the charisma score to pull it off!

Please do!

Consider yourself blessed, my dear. There's nothing wrong with your logic. You're doing everything perfectly right. Cut away!

I don't see any closures in this photo either, Jesse, but other buff coats were closed by means of lacing. The lacing usually only came as far as the bottom of the sternum, but that's all your really need to keep the thing closed.

Yeah. What he said! Seriously, except for the cuffs, it is so like the buff coats from the 1630s and 1640s, it's almost unbelievable. If I didn't know this one existed, I would certainly think they weren't around by this point. Foxe, darling, I'm sorry but I don't work in elk...

Well, it's relevant in that it's odd. It's kinda like an old fashioned thing with new bells and whistles on it. It's neat. It keeps us from saying "they never..." And yeah, those are dog-ear cuffs, but they're usually worn turned back.

Yup. That's a buffcoat, Jack. It's actually made of elk hide, that one. It's armour. :) It's in the style of a Justcorps though. See the dog ear cuffs? This one is from Germany, I believe. I think it was destroyed in the war. The photo is from Kohler's "History of Costume".

But you're talking ECW, right Rod? Not GAoP?

I had a thought the other day on this subject. I have a portrait of George Washington dressed as an officer in some British regiment (I forget which) dated 1772. In the portrait, he's wearing a neck stock exactly like those we see in the GAoP. Now, we can't see his collar at all, it being covered entirely by the stock (much like the portraits in the GAoP). But we have a lot of extant shirts from the 1770s and they all have fold-over collars. That's not to say that there are always fold-over collars underneath the stocks of the GAoP. But if there are fold-over collars underneath the stocks in the 1770s, there could also be fold-over collars underneath the stocks earlier. I know that in the 1770s, things really shook out and we had less variation in styles than we did at the turn of the 18th century. But that's exactly why I'm not willing to discount the existance of fold-over collars in the GAoP. Plus, they wear better underneath stocks.

Oh Buff Coats! They're still in use in the GAoP as far as I recall. I think we still see a couple around the American War for Independence too. Any armour guys on the forums to corroborate this for me? But they're not light leather, Matusalem. They're armour, you see...

Me either. Nothing in my sources. I can't even imagine a reason to make a waistcoat out of leather...

I have that book! I just never noticed the woman on the floor in the foreground before. Thanks again Paul!

Oh, Scrounger! I want to come back!

Spot ON, Jack! I can't wait to see it on your wife!

Oooo! The figure in the foreground on the floor is a woman wearing a mantua! Any chance of a date or atribution on the bottom one? Thanks Paul!

Great pictures, Rats!

Didn't someone say that machetes were appropriate for certain impressions in this time period? Or have I gone mad...

Brit. Privateer, You've not read alot of 19th century literature, have you? I ask because social standing was incredibly important in the US as well. In the age of the Robber Barons in particular even though men like Carnegie and Rockefeller had tons of money, but could only buy a certain level of respect. There was a decided "looking down one's nose" at New Money and the way they tried to buy their way into society. They may have been accepted, but the Old Money never forgot that they were new. It may have been more pronounced in Europe, but there is evidence to demonstrate that the upper class in the US was even more restrictive than that in Europe. Trying to hold on to what little respectability and legacy they thought they had, I suppose... But this doesn't have anything really to do with etiquette at the turn of the 18th century -- a subject I will report upon as soon as I read the book I mentioned. Kass

Hmmmm... Those first two look awfully familiar... Hey Jim! That first one is the one that broke your mortuary hilt on Saturday. (And the one you kept stealing for the rest of the day!)

Oh but they make the most satifying "plunk" when they're shot. They're for lobbing grenadoes if I'm not mistaken.

Please say early May. Not Memorial Day weekend!

I don't know if that's the stick that was left though. I mean, we noticed it when Mark was packing up to leave. Surely he would have said it was his when we asked. Cheeky, you can use any weight of wool that you like for the mantua. The one in the Met is a very, very fine worsted -- what we'd call "tropical weight" -- and that will be incredibly cool in the summer. My mantua was a light melton and it was nice and warm for a November event. Only my forearms were cold. So you can really use any wool you like.

Not so, my dear. You can get good wool on sale for $5-6 a yard if you keep an eye out for sales! And it will last longer, which does your workmanship more proper credit.

Thanks for the pics, Cheeks. I was starting to think I wasn't there! :angry: Just a minor correction on my mantua -- it's all wool. There's no lining. Even the high-class ones in museums weren't lined. So I didn't line mine either. The navy blue you see is my mantua. Everything else are other pieces. It's a very simple garment. Almost a robe. The yellow wool you see is my stays (they're lined with linen). And the burgundy is my outermost petticote (also all wool). The white bits are linen (cap, kerchief and shift). I cannot say enough about the mantua. It really is an all-purpose garment. It started out as a high-class house dress, but by the 1680s, common women and even beggars are wearing them. So if you want to portray high-class, make a brocade or fine wool mantua. And if you want to protray common, make a plain wool one. They also do the summer/winter switch fairly easily. They're dead simply to make. And the beauty of the thing is that one mantua can fit a wide range of sizes depending on how you hook up the skirts and pin the front. So they are the ultimate garment to lend to a friend who wants to just come along for the weekend. I'm actually going to be running some up for sale this month. I'll let you guys know when I have a price...