PyratePhil

Now I only have 1292 more post to go, and I'll become an Immortal Pyrate

Pat, I've always considered you an Immoral...um...

...never mind. Congrats!

LOL!

Who me legal?

Now back to the pipe....

That's me girl!

Rumba dear, you're restricting your thinking.

Why must it be legal?

Imagine the draw that a pyrate resort / park / whotever would have if it were outside the jurisdiction of the uptight Colonists?

Think Jurassic Park with a pyrate theme.

Think there be one rule - no rules.

You'd have tough guys, painted ladies and everyone and everything in between, it would be a Hell-hole and bloody to boot, but ya know whot?

It would be realistic, and I'd be willing to bet large that it would be a smashing success, if only because it was so controversial - at least for a season or two.

Ah, OK. I'm glad the hunters have to pay for their passions.

The first time a group of 5 deer came into the backyard in my mountain hideaway here, I almost blew a gasket! Funny thing was, I didn't see the fifth one until he was almost on top of me. I'm almost hand-feeding them at this point, but they're still a bit people-shy, probably because of the hunters a few miles over.

Awwww...cute.

They don't have a problem once they go back to the wild with the scent of Man on them? I would think that would make life complicated...

One thing that's been bantered about, but not happened, is a Pirate Court.

Talk to Eye about that - he's not too shabby when it comes to creating courtroom scenarios.

I've put a lot of thought into this, primarily because several years ago I was in with a group of people that were planning a year-round attraction like that.

First rule - keep it out of the Northeast part of the US. You'll be closed half the year due to crappy weather.

Body of water - definitely. How about a medium- to large-sized lake? Functional vessels afloat on said lake, of course, with functional pirates.

A museum to take advantage of rainy days and visitors that don't choose to participate in the more strenuous activities.

Fully-outfitted personnel, of course. And discounts for those who come in gear. Piratical food - expand a bit beyond the old turkey-leg theme. Stores - an entire merchants quarter.

Perhaps a small amusement-park area for the kiddies, with pirate-themed rides.

Shows during all hours of operation. Classes / lessons for stage fighting, kit designing and creation, pirate history. A separate classroom building with a full curriculum.

Of course, as I mentioned at the beginning, you HAVE to locate this thing in a warm-weather area. Otherwise you'll go broke. But given cooperative weather and a historically-appropriate area, I think this could fly.

It seems to be dying out now, but for a while there it seemed the latest thing was to send emails with headings like:

"Castle Ford Tillie Wants Goto"

and

"Shrugging Meatballs Play Candide"

Never quite understood what they were trying to accomplish there, unless it was to give me a chuckle with some of the permutations...

Siberians are beautiful and well-tempered, but all except the most hard-core cat lovers will pause when they find the going price is between $500-1,000.

Aw, now you're baiting me.

Not at all - I'm being serious.

You don't think we get what we really want? (Even if it's not what we spend our 40 thoughts per second focused upon?)

Nope - not all of us, or even most of us, no matter WHAT our thoughts are focused upon.

We get what we're meant to get.

Don't forget that we have this great vast subconscious that moves us in ways we do not fully  (consciously) comprehend... so I submit that we get what we ultimately want, even if we're not fully aware of it. (Want a small insight into just how much you don't consciously know about yourself? Check out this fascinating battery of tests at the Harvard web site: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/.../takeatest.html --

I understand and agree about NOT understanding what our brain / mind / spirit do - but I don't see the leap from that to getting what we want. I would think that logic would work just as well for NOT getting what we want.

RE: the IA tests - had a ton of those in school and could always game them to be whatever I desired. Sorry.

I've had far too much training in psych and led far too many counseling sessions to give credence to their tests.

I should post this somewhere where everyone but you and I and the occasional lost soul who peers into this apparently forbidding thread can see it. Maybe I will...maybe I won't.

Naw - this is like a dark cozy pub; we're having and telling a few tall ones and in-between there are occasional glimpses of "Whoa" moments.

If you leak our location here and what we're doing, the Pub Policy Police will come and arrest us for not having a relevant conversation.

"I will not talk in class,

I will not talk in class,

I will not talk in class,

On the other hand, who knows what I'll do?")

LOL! Always that element of uncertainty that makes life interesting...

And yet you're not a cynic...

No, I'm not. That isn't a cynical comment - it's one based on experience and real-world observation.

I could ask the question as, "How come guys always choose the girls who are likely to ultimately choose the loosers and the druggies and the jerks?" I recall several nice girls in h.s. who wanted nothing to do with such people. I contend that the cues are nearly always there, we just sometimes choose to ignore them. (Failure is just another way to say "opportunity for learning.)

So if we participate in the mating process we're damned; if we don't, we're damned.

PS - nice girls are boring.

11  years. The themes in my house are visual paeans to things that have been important to me in my life at one time or another up to this point. It's a fun exercise and an enjoyable  creative challenge. You've seen my web page on the pirate-themed living room, haven't you?

No, I haven't seen that. I haven't been in residence here for a while and I really don't keep up with many threads.

I'm too busy honing my cynical attitude.

And this is why lately I have not said much of anything. I usually just do the little word games. I've also realized it's pointless to say how I really feel in the "How do I feel now" section. I'm supposed to be this up-lifting, friendly, out-going person with no problems at all. So, I'll just continue doing what I've been doing, very little on here and keep things to myself.

Yep.

And of course that's why I'm not here much anymore either, aside from my little chats with Caraccioli. Too many judges, critics and self-appointed "Keepers of the Realm".

I enjoyed my Golden Period here, and I have good memories of it - now the neighborhood has changed and I've moved on.

[quoteOh, yes...I seem to remember you getting into a big argument with someone about selfishness.  (There is a certain limitation to your position - as there is to any position, I suppose. That's the trouble with models of reality.)

There are only the limitations that I place upon it - none other.

How's THAT fer happy-happy-joy-joy?

I always enjoy planning then if only so I can live in the limitless world of possibility. The results are just the artifacts of the creative process.

And since the world of possibility is firmly rooted in the here and now, since by its very nature it doesn't know the future, you're living in the present. Well done, lad! ;>P

(Or, if you like, revealing the truth as received from the school of hard knocks.)

You're one of those alumni too, huh?

You'd think they'd at least lower the tuition, seeing as how the coursework is so brutal... but I think we must have had different majors.

Well, it would help if you weren't such an unsmiling, nasty ol' cuss of a mountain-man...

ZING! Boy, I walked into that one eyes wide shut!

"Prisons..." Such a choice of wording (or, a label).

Eh - I have first-hand knowledge of the topic...

Rather than "we do what we want in life," I'd say, "We get what we want from life,"...

Disagree.

...and even, "We choose what we get from life."

Agree.

...It springs from the notion that we create our own world and then we live in what we've created. (Or, we attract what we put out into the world on some level. But you didn't like that one.)

Ahhh...no, I didn't quite like that one - not because I haven't played with it myself (I have), but because the results were not forthcoming when I did. It's like when they say "How come the bad guys always end up on top?".

My son recently had an encounter with the fairer sex in regards to the Big Prom. She had evidently strung him along for 6 months, promising to attend the prom with him, then when the prom was 2 weeks away she dumped him. Exquisite timing.

His comment to me was, "How come they (girls) always go for the bad guys? I'm a good guy, right? How come they flock around the losers and the druggies and the jerks?"

My answer? "Welcome to the Game, son."

Maybe that should be my signature.

Naw - I was thinking something more along the lines of "Supercalifragilistic..."

Gas cylinder arms are a must for the cabinet...

Evidently you've spent some time checking this stuff out. I'm even starting to think you've owned one at one time or another...

He's probably not quite as Taoist as you think. He had plastic surgery so he would look more appealing.    He was also quite driven (and angry at GM) until he got in too deep with the foolish drug thing.

Hmph. Didn't know about the surgery - that's a shame. "Driven" and "angry" - no, definitely NOT Taoist (at least in the sense that I interpret it - of course, there are all sorts under the grand umbrella of Tao).

Yet you care about the SUV people. Or do you only care about those things which impact you personally? (Your three reasons suggest this to me, but I am inferring.)

Exactly. My concerns end at the length of my arm - perhaps a limited world view, but as you mention later about the "40 things", it's all I care to take care of at this point - whatever directly affects me or mine.

Yes, this "live in the moment" thing has always been hard for me to grasp. I like possibilities and they are grounded in the future. The moment is fascinating and I have experimented with focusing on things here and now, but my mind always wanders to what could be and how it is I will get there. (I am also quite bad at eliminating stray thoughts during meditation, so I just take the "go with it" philosophy in regard to that sport.)

Well, the future will be here whatever we do, and we can certainly shape that future to a certain extent; my argument is against dreaming about it and spending the entire NOW planning for THEN. When we get old, hopefully we'll be happy in the NOW, whether through chance or planning.

So if I am violating a core Taoist principle, so be it.

Which in some eyes makes you even MORE Taoist.

Kind of like "the only people who can see ghosts are those who believe in them" theory, eh? I see your point. However, there is good and bed in everything.

Agreed.

... we receive over 11 million pieces of information per second but our conscious can only process forty of them. Four-zero. (This sort of puts a kink in the "focus on the moment" theory of existence, but I'll leave that alone.) So, whatever our personal philosophies might suggest, these facts suggest rather firmly that we must choose what we focus upon. I figure about half are "good" and half are not (That's guesswork, admittedly, but probably not too far off. I'm sure 40 of them are good in any event.) I'd rather attempt to focus on 40 good things out of the 11 million than 40 bad things.

Interesting - I never thought it was that many bits of data, but it could very well be. It seems there's that many commercials on public TV alone.

I choose to focus upon discerning the "truth"...

Have you ever listened to the Buddha Bar series?

Never, but I'll certainly search for it now - thank you!

Know the truth! Good one! (There we apparently disagree drastically. I don't think we can know the truth. We can at best approximate it.)

OK - how's about - "The Truth According To Phil"? Of course there's few if any universal truths that humans can know in this lifetime. I think most declared "truths" are emotionally-derived beliefs or school-of-hard-knocks lessons - both of which are subject to interpretation.

A fine example of getting what you expect and interpreting your world using your inherent bias by focusing on certain elements in the environment.

LOL - well put. However, when I clear my mental blackboard every morning, I get rid of some of my past associations and try to cover-up the remaining few.

I don't want you walking away with the impression that I am an unsmiling, nasty ol' cuss of a mountain-man, because I don't think I am. I'm hermetic in many of my ways, true; but a REAL psychotic loner wouldn't be on these forums, much less post some of the stuff I've posted here over the years.

But there's the rub: when I sensed my input on certain forums (most of them, to be honest) was no longer appreciated, I withdrew. Kind of like the Pink Floyd "Another Brick in The Wall" syndrome - each such blessed occurrence drives me more into myself, where I'm doing probably the most important work. My dealings with the "real" world have been, of late, disappointing, whether through my (!) cynical ways or simply due to the way of Fate; previously, I was a bon vivant who reveled in the pursuit of money and the company of fast cars and loose women (...or was it loose cars and...?). Both have taught me valuable lessons in balance, for which I am thankful.

...and so we live in the world of our own making. You previously agreed with this, but now you seem to be backtracking and saying there is an ability to see outside of our self-created world.

No, I'm merely acknowledging that although we can choose to live in self-created prisons, we can also glimpse the outside world and, if it is important enough to us, break out and live in that world. We do what we want in life - some more than others (my main supporting argument on the topic of pirate lifestyle), but all have the same ability to choose.

Perhaps we may as well agree to disagree.

I did that a long time ago.

You can see that

here.

I have actually modified them since I drew that - all that possibility thinking - and the finished product will feature mirrors in the back, black "leather" inside walls and tinted windows mounted in the front of the cupboard door.

Coolness! Are you going to have pneumatic arms on the doors? If so, will they be electrically actuated?

I'm not up on DeLoreans but I always loved their style and the Taoist nature of their creator. I suppose there's a ton of stuff you could do...

I think you're confusing me (labeling me) as a pessimist. Let me explain why I am not.

The classical psychological definitions of optimism and pessimism always make reference to the subject's view of the future. This is what their entire categorization rests upon - it's called dispositional optimism (pessimism). Optimists believe the future will be better than the present; pessimists, that it will be worse.

I, on the other hand, view the present with an accumulation of knowledge of the past and no expectations, good OR bad, for the future. I see trends. I see what the largest percentage of the populace in my area do, and I make my pronouncements from that. I really don't care if what they do is good or bad - I merely observe, infer and deduce.

I am not a pessimist. I am a realist. Although you might not discern the difference between those two terms the exact same way I do, to me they are worlds apart. A pessimist views the world as one large steaming dung pile which will never change for the better (note the future reference).

I don't believe that.

An optimist believes the world will inevitably get better. (Again, note the future-oriented slant).

I don't believe that either.

To me, hope is a falsehood. It is a longing, a devout wish, a firmly-held desire. Hope is what you want to get in the future. This person spends so much time thinking about the future that their present is robbed from them before they realize it. Dreamers and schemers live for the future and barely recognize the existence of the Now. Pessimists are no better or worse - they assume that the future will be just as bad, or worse, than their personal pasts. They dread the coming of the future and consequently let their present slip by unnoticed.

As for the Law of Attraction - I'm sorry but I don't believe it the same way you do. I don't believe in coincidences, and to me that's what the Law of Attraction is - it gets the benefit of belief when good things happen; when only bad comes into your life, the mantra is to think more positively - you weren't bringing enough good karma in the front door.

Tell you what - you be twice as realistic to cover for me. Better you should choose wade in the stream of popular dung than I.

Sorry - I neither read newspapers nor watch TV; I listen only to classical and/or jazz music on NPR, or my own library of music. In this, I suppose I could be considered an optimist

At the end of your days, what difference does it make how "correctly" you viewed things?

It matters to ME because I want to die knowing I've known the truth and lived it to the best of my abilities. If I've lived a life of lies and padded perceptions, I'll pass on without really knowing if what I did, thought, said and striven for my entire life were worthwhile. That's a horrible death to die, an empty death meant for fools, and I for one don't want it.

...for the next few days, smile at everyone you meet. Find one simple thing about the wait-staff or store personnel on which to compliment them.  (If you are completely committed to a chosen unhappy world view, you may choose to limit your attempt to a day or even a morning.) What happens?

Unfortunately whenever I do this, they either:

1) Think I am a simpering moron and patronize me

2) Think I am up to something and stay away, or

3) They are so wrapped up worrying about their future, good or bad, that they don't even see me smiling

None of those reactions are what I need.

People smiling at me all day make me nervous... ...

...because I figure they're either morons, are up to something or...I don't remember the last thing - I was just thinking of something I have to do tomorrow...

Fourth, life is easier for an optimist. You don't have to spend all that time fretting about the past - focusing on how poorly you did this, how badly that went, how awful the other is - and how miserable the future will be. Instead you can begin to explore possibilities, unfold ideas, create new vistas and grow as a result

See my response above about the past - it's the future that shrinks claim defines optimism / pessimism.

And why could a pessimist NOT explore possibilities et al just like an optimist? Are they permanently crippled? I believe their path is no more wrong or right than the optimists. I understand the points you've made, and they're all valid - for you. Why could a pessimist not make equally valid points in THEIR defense?

The DeLorean kitchen sounds intriguing. Please do post pics as you go along...

China Restricts Foreign Mapping Services

There ARE mash-ups available, and one website (Bendi, I believe) is working on, and may have already introduced, a link between Chinese mapping services and Google. It's still all very rough and not very reliable though.

Excellent!

...Since our minds actually think in pictures, it would seem to me to be the way to transmit ideas fully, with the least lost information. However, we haven't found the medium...yet.

Have faith that technology - probably theoretical physics - will come up with a commercial application soon.

He only grudgingly turned in his no A/C, manual, AM radio (only because it came with it) 10-year old Chevy S-10 when its mileage suggested that it was more of a threat to the environment than an alternative might.)

Keep telling me John tales, please! I like him more and more...

Ah, but I never said prosperity couldn't result from other activities.

OK, then how about - Jesus, Mother Theresa and other do-gooders never achieved prosperity, at least in the commercial/financial sense we're speaking of.

(As a foot note, did you know that most lottery winners declare bankruptcy within something like an average of five years? They never learned to manage money, so giving them wads of it is like trying to carry sand in a sieve. There's a certain mastery of skill required for effective money-management.  [There. Now I'm baiting you.])

LOL - just once I'd like to win so that I could skew the stats.

Everyone lives in their own world and thus has their own insights into life. I find that fascinating. Some insight are very acute - and they sting.

Very true. And some are chronic...

This is a tool of mastery. (That makes it technology.)

Now I KNOW you're baiting me!

Take gasoline as an example. In the early 70's (more than 40 years ago) The Club of Rome told us that we would run out of oil within 40 years. By 1980, we had created the fuel injector which increased the potential supply of gasoline by improving fuel consumption. We had created a new pipeline to Alaska (new technology) which increased the supply. We have recently found ways to drill deeper into the ocean, use previously unusable oil, get oil from shale, etc., etc., etc.

By 1980 the fuel injector had indeed improved fuel mileage, which was more than outweighed by (1) cars becoming capable of achieving higher average speeds, thus negating any mileage increases, and (2) the increase in the number of cars, and thus the barrels of oil, produced.

The Alaska pipeline? Don't even GO there, bud! Environmental and societal upheaval and destruction in the name of technology (read: greed). Drilling deeper in the ocean? Great. Let's kill off even the bioluminescent critters that live 5 miles down. We've gotten rid of the majority of the species that once lived on land, so let's do it with the other 3/4 of the globe...

...all so we can cruise at 85 in our LuxoPig SUV watching some foul-mouthed comic on the DVD player cater to our base instincts whilst we run over flora and fauna and consume "meat" burgers laden with chemically-suspect substances...

Yeah - I'm a proud member of the human race.

Eventually, we will create something that will allow us to abandon oil for the most part in favor of something else (probably solar power, but I'm not a mystic, so I don't know for sure.) Then, like whale oil, it will eventually go the way of all inefficient technologies. (Incidentally, there were dire predictions of our running out of whale oil in the mid/late 1800s. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.)

Yes - once we empty the planet of its last drops of oil, we'll boldly use our advanced technology to rape and pillage ANOTHER resource.

Heh, heh - solar power is one of those "inefficient" technologies that was used for thousands of years around the globe. Maybe someday man will figure out the natural order of progression and the inevitability of cycles - but don't hold your breath.

Funny, isn't it, how groups like the Amish have managed to avoid many of the "necessities" of society while prospering? It's only when they're infected by our technologically-advanced culture that they begin to have problems.

Like the Sentinel in The Matrix said - we're a virus. We reproduce and consume, reproduce and consume, until it's all gone - then we move on to the next fertile field.

Society seems prepared to accept this one, even if you are not. But I guess you have the right to be upset with society. (Well, obviously.)

I had a sister who was killed on the Tappan Zee Bridge in NY on the night of her nursing school graduation by a drunk driver who crossed over the divider going over 75mph. My sister lasted a week before we took her off support.

2 years later, I did CPR for 1/2 an hour on someone on the very same bridge that was also hit by a SOBER driver going too fast and crossing over the divider.

I had a good friend in 6th grade get killed by a speeder.

It goes on and on. Cycles...

Check back in with me in 20 years and let me know how that strategy works for you.

If there's any justice at all in the universe, I'll be gone before then.

Mine won't. (What?! Melodrama, again?!)

My empathy.

Both of my brothers had adult-onset diabetes. One died the day after he was told he'd need a transplant. The other suffered for a year before using his Mossberg 12-ga to end the pain.

Hm. I've traveled for more for exploration and expansion of my horizons than for business. (I think. Well, I haven't kept track to be honest.) I like seeing new places. It can be very restive and often adds to and improves ideas.

You're very lucky. I think (without checking any stats) that the majority of travel these days is business-related.

..Information is certainly lost as the the category of the label becomes broader, however. This is the trade-off. (We've never reached agreement on the concept of labeling. I doubt we will. (Words are labels.  )

Words are indeed labels - such imperfect ones at that, poets and scribes notwithstanding - but I think that as the categories grow smaller information can also be lost.

There, we've reached agreement.

Nor do I see technology as being "folly." It's a tool. (In fact, tools are technology by my definition. So is "rubbing" rather than "poking" your eye.)...

My apologies, then - you do indeed have a unique view of "technology"; one which I am not used to hearing.

...In fact, you would not know of John had technology not brought us here...

Now you KNOW that's a non-defendable position - John and I could very well have met while strolling a country lane in the merry, merry month of May...

As for the market for theoretical physics...ask Duchess. She'll open your eyes a bit. (Ever heard of quantum bit encryption? Very interesting. Not marketable yet, but it will be...)

Ah, but you confuse the pursuit of pure science with commercial applications, no? I merely stated that PURE theoretical science has no such goals - rather, it is the quest for knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

And with all due respect, I don't believe Duchess and I see eye-to-eye on many subjects. Getting us into discussion would be equivalent to caging a dog and cat in a small box and expecting a peace accord to develop.

On to my view of a master... there is also something to be said for listening to a guy explain Western economic history while driving to work causing me to ponder ideas that I would otherwise probably have not come in contact with.

Ahh...since my commute consists of waking up, walking 30 feet down the hall to my office and sitting down, I didn't appreciate the irony there...

Still, my greatest joy is to unravel ideas and reach a point where I can use them for something.

As I've always suspected, you DO use the subtractive method in your mental quests :>)

Prosperity results from doing good work.

Now are you purposely baiting me with a comment like that? Of course you realize that drug czars, contract hitmen, insider-trading stiffs and lottery winners live the life of Reilly without performing "good" work.

I might agree with you if you said, "The greatest joy is to do the work only to have done it."

How about if I offer you "The greatest joy is to do the work only to participate in the process, without regard to the final goal"?

However, unless you are willing to go truly mountain man, you need to keep yourself fed and watered.

Actually that seems to be the general direction of my path lately, but why could I not keep myself fed by growing and hunting my own food and having my own stream or well? These things can cost little or nothing and when performed properly have minimal impact upon the earth and its residents.

The body may be the spiritual garage, but even garages have to have a solid foundation, strong walls and a well maintained roof.

Or to paraphrase Clint Eastwood, that great Western philosopher:

"Spirit ain't worth spit without a little exercise".

Call me hopeless. (Go ahead.)

You're hopeless.

I can't for the life of me understand why you care a whit about the person with the SUV with the flat panel.

I "care" about them only because:

1. By creating demand for such products, they are depleting the natural resources of the planet upon which I must live my life

2. While they mess around with all the little buttons as they're going 85MPH down my street, they have been known to run over small furry mammals, stop signs and the occasional child.

3. They clog the earth with themselves and their progeny, thereby denying me a better parking spot at the mall. :>P

My friend John (who is probably my best friend at this point) does likewise? Why spend any mental energy at all on people doing something that doesn't really affect you? They have their world and you have yours. (We established this in the mastery thread, I believe.)

As in my previous reply, they DO affect my world - in many more ways than I can list here. It would take a book to fully expand upon my thoughts on this subject. Watch for it soon at your local B&N, or preorder NOW at Amazon.com...

I'm not so sure about the pursuit, however...

Perhaps I once again misspoke myself...

I don't mean to imply that I want to change them. Only that, in their present form, when they start to impinge upon MY territory I feel a call to action of some sort. Since snuffing them is generally frowned upon when you get caught, I seek alternate solutions. I can't move much further into the mountains, since they always seem to find me there. I've spent years living in their midst in large cities and for a while my "hide in plain sight" approach worked, but then the beasts became self-aware...

Right now I make my living teaching a select few students my Way - and believe me, the entry requirements I have for becoming one of those students are stringent. No optimists allowed, for one thing...

BTW, this tape actually suggests that it is the lack of development of several technologies (although he doesn't call them that) that has made AIDS such a problem in Africa.

Well, first i was expecting a vociferous argument over my use of the phrase "modern mass transit" in regards to something like the Plague...

What I meant was that, if people would stay separated by a "healthy" distance (ie - low concentration villages and hamlets), most diseases would simply burn out for lack of hosts. Commerce is one of the main driving forces behind travel, hence we once again (!) find ourselves having traveled a circle of sorts in this conversation.

Woooo...I'm getting dizzy with all these circles....

Gee and I was beginning to think I was writing to myself in this thread. (Not that I mind doing that. Some day, I really must copy this stuff into a Word file so I can look back upon it in my doddering years and laugh at myself.  )

To paraphrase that old Rogers and Hammerstein song - "You'll never talk alone..."

I see your point, caustic though it tends to be.

*sigh* Labels...again with the labels...

(Some would also argue that the Eastern "religions" themselves work against embracing technology. In fact, it might be the basis of your argument.)

Sorry - I have no ties to any religion - Eastern, Western or any other style.

The author thus suggested that we may have reached the moon five hundred years earlier had this not occurred. (Think of it. The mind reels at what we might be doing today (er, restricting my imaginings to positive events as is my wont.)

Merely pushing a time-line backward or forward has, I believe, no effect on its ultimate destiny. It perhaps delays or accelerates mankind's recognition of his folly, but that's all.

And hopefully you recognize that by limiting your thoughts to the positive, you effectively negate half of the world. May I inquire as to which half that would be?

I must define "technology" though. (At least define it as I see it.) In my mental maundering, technology is simply a better way to do something. If you determine that putting your produce on a simple raft and poling down the gently wandering stream that flows through your property is better than carrying it by the armload, you have "discovered" new technology that will serve you. By the same token, if you figure that crushed gooseberries can be added to the wash to create a nicely hued cloth, you have a new technology.

Interesting view of technology, I grant you.

So correct me if I'm wrong (I have utter faith in this request ), but when I have an itchy eyeball...and I relieve the itch by violently poking my finger into my eye...then one day I discover I can merely rub it gently instead of poking it...

...that's technology? It's a better way of doing something, right?

And I take issue with your view that technology is always for the GOOD of mankind, but that dog won't hunt right now. (I love that phrase!)

Of course, technologies are, by their very nature, linked directly to commerce.

Are they indeed? I can think of several technologies right offhand that are not involved directly (or should not be, by their very definitions) with commerce...theoretical physics among them....

Our views on commerce are quite different, though. While the siren song of striving and accumulating calls many, I don't see it as a negative until it has consumed one's life and become an addiction.

Long before the effects of cancer are seen or felt, it is slowly eating away at the core of your being...

In fact, commerce is really an enabler of masters. After all, we can't all be philosophers. (In fact, most people aren't suited to it at all.) So people may as well do the work that they are suited for and that suits them as (I believe) it will make them happiest, give them the potential for mastery and (if they avoid the addictive aspects) ultimately make them the most prosperous.

I still don't understand what the connection is between mastery and prosperity. Are you speaking solely of financial remuneration (as I believe you'd need to be when discussing commerce) as a longed-for result of mastery? How can you ever hope to become master of anything except disappointment if you devote your life to chasing illusions?

...but when you factor Maslow's Hierarchy in...well, it just makes sense that we are best to embrace it - up to a point.

Are we??? Have we truly conquered our needs for health and shelter and community? Looking around me at the glittering shards of civilization (you can use that phrase elsewhere, if you like - I'll suspend the trademark-infringement proceedings in your favor), I see so many needs unmet, and by the very people that are striving mightily for the almighty dinero. They work themselves into mental, physical and spiritual sicknesses of all timbres in pursuit of...what? A plasma-screen DVD player in their new SUV? They barter their children's birthrights for self-enjoyment purposes, all the while singing the "technology is wonderful" song? They are despicable human beings, unable to show the slightest shred of mercy or humanity to those below them, but I'm supposed to believe they're empowered because they have more toys than I?

In my (possibly rose-colored) view, a master is someone who loves the craft of his mastery and is constantly searching for better, more efficient ways of producing top-quality output.

And with my State Trooper aviators, I see that mastery can also involve the pursuit of Nothingness. Efficiency has little or nothing to do with top-quality output - I'd rather own a hand-made bed by a Master craftsman that took one year to make than a high-quality, quickly mass-produced, efficiently -designed-and-manufactured fiberboard K-Mart special.

My point is that my "master" is ever exploring new technology, embracing that which adds and rejecting that which deducts. It's true even in the teaching field.

Not for ALL teachers, I assure you...

Just like the stone carving maxim that you remove whatever doesn't look like the finished product, in certain fields of mastery one needs to remove more than they add. Who would be easier to teach Catholicism - a dyed-in-the-sheep's-wool Protestant, or a 5-year-old who has never had a day of church indoctrination that he can remember? The difference is one of subtraction, not addition...

Your comment about automobiles... I can see why you think this, but I think the benefits outweigh the risks. (From an Eastern POV, I suspect this is practically an illogical statement.)

LOL!

Eh - like everything else in life, they are double-edged swords - useful but dangerous; beautiful but ugly; life-saving yet life-taking. It could be no other way. I just happen to fall on the horse-and-buggy side of the continuum these days. Of course, I've owned my Corvettes and Porsche's, too, so the pendulum in my case has swung full cycle.

I've a good friend, John, who is essentially a Luddite (and proud of this fact) and craves simplicity in all things, but grudgingly accepts the conditions of living in a Western culture. So he carves out a little Eastern-style niche in his home. (Although he doesn't think of it as being particularly Eastern - he embraced the, er, "technology of simplicity" through experimentation. His concession to spirituality is a small icon to the goddess of nature in his garden.)

Without ever having met him, I like John!

My view is that being able to move more things and with greater speed enriches our lives.

Or, as in the case of the Manhattan Project, take multiple lives, far more and far faster, with more horrifying effects, than was ever thought possible...yes, that enriched all humanity.

Or the spread of AIDS...the Plague...all attributable to modern modes of fast mass-transportation...

We could go backwards (as John might want) and return to transport by horse or some such - but we would also have to embrace the resultant spread of disease and the sullied conditions of the roadways - a trade-off of risks. Or we could go all out and say there is no reason to ever travel more than 20 miles from your origin and be right back in the dark ages (literally) when the church controlled innovation. The only difference would be that we choose to impede our progress rather than have it shoved down our throats.

Which all begs the question, "WHAT is progress?" Another thread, perhaps...

Me? I like eating a banana most mornings, purchased at 39¢ - 49¢ a pound - and I couldn't do that without modern ocean/air and motor/rail transportation, competition between large supermarkets and other, similar "technologies." So, for me, the benefits outweigh the costs. Of course, my pal John would say I have sold my soul for a banana. (This is why I am committed to having Sunday dinner with he, his wife, son and brother Rick (an ex-Cappuchin monk) at least twice a month for as long as they'll feed me. (Note: they buy bananas too.))

You're merely indulging your likes and, I dare say, your dislikes in this manner. If you never knew what a banana tasted like, you'd never miss it. We wait until we become accustomed to a thing, then we vigorously defend it to the death; yet, if we never had its acquaintance, we would never have to defend or argue for anything, thus making our lives easier - one of the stated goals of technology - hence, through subtraction we can achieve what many believe only addition can offer.

BTW - When I was 7 years old, I almost ordered a Cappuchin monkey from the back of a comic book. It was...

...

...umm...never mind.

Your serve, M'Lord.

Now see...we're both going to the same place, but we're once again taking different paths.

I would say that perpetual motion does indeed exist as regards human endeavor, but I would place the motive force upon greed, ego and constant nerve-wracking striving.

Creativity, although an amazing tool in the proper hands and initially a wonderful thing, is usually co-opted and corrupted by the merchants and "visionaries" of the world.

Look at the automobile. Fine idea; initially it was limited production, low speed, few problems other than availability of parts and petrol LOL.

Then - Ford came along with his mass production - quality dropped and death rates skyrocketed.

Advance to the beginning of the 21st century - we have Volvos that warn the driver that there's a car in front of them, so maybe they should think about getting their mind back on the road instead of ogling their female companion.

Ever see that commercial? They drive like hell to get to a food stand. Nice. Can you see what a development like that says for the human condition? That you're either too stupid to know there's something in front of you, or you're going so damn fast that you need Longbow radar to see it in time. Either choice is pitiful.

Technology has outstripped human development 4:1. Mores the pity. But since it IS a recurring theme throughout history, I think that we, or our children or grandchildren, will see another major collapse. Whether its economic or social I don't pretend to know, but the signs are there for those willing to see them.

Now - stoke the flames for the ol' Doomsayer...

Never been to one, never plan to be.

They're good for friends who like to chatter aimlessly and fill spaces on their social calendars.

Stochastic Resonance pretty much encompasses the idea that application of white noise to random (or chaotic depending on your alignment) systems can produce predictable patterns.

Just wait 'til the new agers get their hands on that one!

Sorry - too many big words to get my hands around

(Note: we're back to talking about mastery again.  )

Oh - is THAT what this thread is about?

I agree - you have to make a conscious decision to master anything. But you know something funny? The longer you stay on that path, the more you hate the idea of stopping, of giving up - I suppose it's related to the investment of time thing...

I also believe that mastery of any subject will follow the 1/9/90 Rule:

• 1% of the people will achieve mastery
  
• 9% will be making the effort to achieve mastery
  
• 90% will sit back and watch the masters
  

LMAO@'chucks - yep, been there, done that. When I was learning them, I was constantly coming home looking like I had just met a rabid puma - bruises on the head, shoulders, back and groin (don't ask - it was a required movement); abrasions on the wrists; bleeding knuckles...

Whoever invented those things had a truly warped sense of humor! Best thing to do - if you're ever being mugged, just hand a pair to the mugger...

Beyond human reach? Doubtlessly. Beyond one individual's reach when it is not beyond another's...I have doubts that that's true.

Beyond my capacity, perhaps, to reach them - in which case, for all intents it's a waste of my time to try.

(Call me an optimist. Why not? I have become an optimist. I used to be a realist (This is the code that pessimists use to describe themselves. I digress again...))

Geez, they changed the code again??? I thought I was still a pragmatist...

"For myself I am an optimist- it does not seem to be much use being anything else." - Sir Winston Churchill

“The man who is a pessimist before forty-eight knows too much; if he is an optimist after it he knows too little” - Mark Twain