Grymm

Think it's for more emphasis "Then there's the flicking the thumbnail with the teeth 'Biting your thumb' from Shakespear "I will bite my thumb at them; which is a disgrace to them, if they bear it." Problem with hand gestures is that they do vary from country to country, like the 'talk to the hand, is rude socially in the US and UK but do the same to a Greek, especially with spread fingers and you've got a fight on your hands as it's s'posed to imply that they have a choice of 5 fathers or essentially calling their Mum a slapper/slut. Hitchhiking thumb or thumbs up for okay in UK US is a sexual insult in Greece and Sardinia Just easier for women(And highlanders) pre mid 19thC as knickers aren't worn by most women if at all, jury is out but if they are worn it isn't a common thing and may be 'women of negotiable virtue' who adopt them first. The middle picture, with the painted face on a mooning arse, I think is a soldier judging by the 'blacked up' trumpeters flanking it and the 2 other blue uniformed men =o) Very squaddie humour, I remember doing summat similar during a stay in Grafenwöh when us British squaddies, as I was waaay back in the early 80s, came down for a joint exercise.

Women convicts displaying their views on the parsons sermon and religeon generally... The lady in green trying not to piss herself laughing is a nice touch....OOOO Er Matron, apparently the Parson had a stroke.....baddam-tish!

Which 2 finger salute? If you are thinking about the 'Archers salute' the idea that it's from Agincourt is a 1960/70 construct, as an offensive gesture it's certainly at least 17thC (His wife … Behind him forks her fingers. Sir John Mennes and J. Smith, Witts Recreations, 1640) but possibly as an adaption of The Cuckolds Horns, which is extending the fist with the forefinger and pinkie extended and the middle fingers doubled in( think the 'devil horns ROCK N FLIPPING ROLL!' symbol against your forehead), which implies that the person being insulted is a cuckold or their Missus does favours for sailors =o) He would have laine withe the Countess of Nottinghame, making horns in derision at her husband the Lord High Admiral. (Sir E. Peyton, The Divine Catastrophe of the … House of Stuarts, 1652) Here is Idleness doing it to the chaps taunting him with a noose. Then there's the flicking the thumbnail with the teeth 'Biting your thumb' from Shakespear "I will bite my thumb at them; which is a disgrace to them, if they bear it." It could also be 'to give the fig', also the fig of Spain and to give the fico. The fig or Italian fico involves putting the thumb between the first two fingers or in the mouth. The French and Spanish phrases for it are faire la figue and dar la higa respectively. Mooning goes waay back too, Medieval Early 18thC (In the window above the black clad religeous types) 19thC The middle finger up was Ancient Greek mentioned in the comedy “The Clouds” by playwright Aristophanes as an insult but also is a protective against 'The Evil Eye'. There are plenty of others in various other cultures,Can't remember which one 'thumbing a lift' hand position is a killing insult but people have been run down by enraged car drivers because of it, the countries around the Med are particularily rich in them.

With stuff from 1665 onwards The Royal Society has today announced that its world-famous historical journal archive has been made free to access. Around 60,000 historical scientific papers are accessible via a fully searchable online archive, with papers published more than 70 years ago now becoming freely available. http://royalsociety....-to-access/?f=1 We may not see Mission for a bit

The term kidney bean turns up in the 1540s mostly in ref to the multitude of Phaseolus vulgaris found in the New World which is bloody awkward as it covers red, white, black, navy and all the other edible New World beans. Columbus brings a few types back to Europe in 1493 which they start cultivating around the Med fairly quickly. In his log November 4, 1492 he describes lands in Cuba planted with faxones and fabas "different than ours." From a article on beans I have (I really know how to live me, it was on the shelf next to that riveting read The Historical and Social Influences of the Potato); "The discovery of the Americas triggered a rapid exchange of crops between the Old and New World. The pathways of beans dissemination in Europe is still unclear and currently under discussion, since the initial input of common bean in Europe is largely unrecorded. It is likely that sailors and traders brought the nicely coloured and easily transportable bean seeds already from the first trips towards the Americas in the 16th and 17th centuries. The initial common bean accessions were introduced probably in Europe from Mesoamerica, since Columbus arrived in Central America in 1492 and Cortes reached Mexico in 1518, while Pizarro, exploring Peru in 1528, gave the chance to introduce common bean from the Andes. The first European explorers certainly devoted great interest towards this species. For example, Gonzalo Fernandez de Oviedo, who explored Panama and Nicaragua in 1530, included in its travel reports detailed information on common bean cultivation techniques used by the American natives. There are strong evidences that common bean reached France already in 1508, probably without value for human consumption at that time. The first description of common bean in European herbals was done by Fuchs (1542–1543), who reported that the common bean had climbing habit, white or red flowers and red, white, yellow, skin-colored or liver-colored seeds with or without spots. However, it cannot be excluded that Fuchs reported a combination of traits belonging to both P. vulgaris and Phaseolus coccineus L. species. Further descriptions were done by Roesslin in 1550 by Oellinger in 1553 and by Dodonaeus in 1554. The physician Baldassarre Pisanelli in his ‘Treatise of the nature of food and drinks’ published in 1583 estimated that common beans were “much worse than faves, but among them the red are the best”. Teofilo Folengo, a monk and poet of noble family, also reported some features of common bean in a treatise dealing with food published in 1562”

They are almost always mutton bones, sheep femur.

On the subject of fids... I work at Hampton Court Palace doing their Tudor Cookery demos and I'm always interested in 'old' style kitchen implements so when I saw a bone 'apple corer' on a stall at one of the big 'nacters markets here in the UK I thought I'd give it a go so I bought it From these lovely people at Bikkel en Been http://www.bikkelenbeen.com/nl/home/ Tons of them turn up in digs from 9th-10thC onwards and I've always seen them called apple corers but here's the thing, after buying one I and trying it out on apples and pears (Yes it does work pretty well) a thought hit me, in 20 odd years of doing historical cooking from muddyevil right up to WWII ration book stuff I can count the number of recipes that only call for coring an apple, rather than coring and chopping which can be done easily with a knife, on the fingers of both hands! I think they may be fids, they just get called corers coz they look like 20thC corers....some may actually be corers but I think the majority would be for rope or straw rope work, compare them to modern Swedish fids Or Skep (Old school beehives) making tools When the tip wears away or they get to blunt to work with they get binned or the material is so plentiful that y'ent worried if you loose it and a new one is made out of the left-overs of todays dinner, roast leg o'mutton. Just a theory, pro'ly the ramblings of a diseased mind as usual, but I thought I'd bung it out there see what you lot thought and see if any of the rope workers out there fancies knocking one up and giving it a whirl? Time to up the meds again methinks...........

And when I need some light relief; The Mechanical Messiah and Other Marvels of the Modern Age: A Novel by Robert Rankin

Going Dutch by Lisa Jardine a summary a UK newsrag "In November 1688, Prince William of Orange, of the Dutch Republic, landed in Devon with an invasion force of 500 ships and thousands of men and marched on London, whereupon King James II fled. William and his wife Mary (James's daughter) were offered the throne, and London remained under Dutch military occupation until 1690. How did this "invasion" come to be known as the "Glorious Revolution", a peaceful restoration of order? Lisa Jardine, with skill, eloquence, and lots of illustrations, answers by uncovering a cultural cohesion between England and Holland that predated and underpinned their political union. The detail of dynastic intermarriage is laid out so clearly that its significance is obvious. With the personnel in place, the accounts of Anglo-Dutch exchange in architecture and astronomy, painting and banking, make perfect, intricate sense. The detail is fascinating, the historical significance broad - for Jardine shows how grand events may be shaped by hidden relationships long obscured. A couple of reviews from various UK rags http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/apr/05/featuresreviews.guardianreview5 http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article3634188.ece http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/going-dutch-by-lisa-jardine-810746.html?r=RSS

Back to women and baccy From Constantijn Huygens journal of William of Orange's progress during the Glorious Revolution. This is from the day after the landing at Brixham in Dec 1688 Alongside the roads the people had gathered, as on the previous day, women, men, and children alike, all shouting: 'God bless you' and waving us a hundredgood wishes. They gave the Prince and his entourage apples, and an old lady was waiting with a bottle of mead and wanted to pour his Highness a glass. In a little square, five women were standing, greeting him, each of whom had a pipe of tobacco in her mouth, like the large crowds we have seen, all smoking without any shame, even the very young, thirteen and fourteen year olds.... And a Scottish portrait called "The Hen Wife" painted in 1706 shows a woman with a horn snuff mull and snuffing spoon

http://www.museumofvision.org/exhibitions/?key=44&subkey=4&relkey=35 There's a wee clicky link on the LH side to take you to the 18thC collection, This one pair is tagged as being 1700 http://www.antiquespectacles.com/ Has some pretties too. The nose bridge specs can have cords or threads looped over the ears to keep them on, also means that they are much less likely fall off when looking down or when you turn violently. From the Optometrists College website in the musEYEum section http://www.college-optometrists.org/en/knowledge-centre/museyeum/index.cfm The writings of de Valdes In 1623 the Spanish writer B. Daza de Valdes produced a semi-fictional pamphlet with the somewhat lengthy title: Vso de los antojos para todo genero de vistas: en que se ensena a conocer los grados que a cada vno le faltan de su vista, y los que tienen qualesquier antojos. Y assi mismo a que tiempo se an de vsar, y como se pediran en ausencia, con otros auisos importantes, a la vtilidad y conseruacion de la vista. In this work he describes a user of spectacles in Seville, whom he names Marcel, complaining that his leather spectacles were of clumsy manufacture and kept falling off. As a result Marcel aspired to upgrade to a silver pair though, in fact, a well-made leather pair would have stayed on the nose better due to its greater flexibility and lighter weight. A spectacle maker informed Marcel of this; the set-piece conversation, if it can be believed, is interesting evidence of a dialogue between manufacturer and customer. A passing reference is made to looping the spectacles over the ears. This Marcel rejects on account of it looking less smart and being associated with older people. It seems he would rather break more pairs than benefit from the convenience of ear loops; perhaps the spectacle makers were happy to acquiesce in this if it meant a higher demand for new pairs? From the same site re green tinted specs Samuel Pepys The great diarist Samuel Pepys (1633-1703) purchased a pair of spectacles with green lenses from the respected and 'great' spectacle maker John Turlington in December 1666 in the hope that the tint might relieve the soreness of his eyes caused, so he believed, by labouring under candlelight. They may have looked a little like this pair with a leather frame. Turlington was Master of the Spectacle Makers Company at the time. Dating these spectacles is problematic. Whilst they are perhaps most likely to be from the second half of the century, stylistically they could date from as early as 1600 which would make them the oldest pair in the museum collection. Pepys was a regular drinking partner of Sir Isaac Newton, who discovered the colour spectrum and may possibly have discussed optics with him. Aids to vision had many uses as one entry from his diary of May 1667 will show: I did entertain myself with my perspective glass up and down the church, by which I had the great pleasure of seeing and gazing a great many very fine women; and what with that and sleeping, I passed away the time till sermon was done. There is also a section on specs with arms which throws a few early possibles into the mix.

Bloody brilliant stuff! Thanks for that link. I'll have to stick with the hemp as I have a 100m reel of 10mm baksheesh, summat to hone me skills on any way =o) Thanks again. Grymm

Also in the UK http://www.re-enactment-shoes.co.uk/ and entry level pricing... (S1 are Very Comfy too, work ordered me a pair for a Baroque do we had in Aug) remember that our (UK) sizes are different to yourn. here's a grid with differences, it tallies with 'most' of the other sites that have this info.

Just my opinion but, Warwick town is nice and the cathedral is well worth a mooch but Warwick Castle is a bloody expensive tourist trap designed to part you from as much of your hard earned cash as possible, it's run by Tussaud's (Of wax work fame) it leans heavily towardsthe Historylite scheme of things. But like I said , just my opinion.....Nice trebuchet though.

I'm after making some rope quoits to amuse my Small during events (And to give me summat to do in front of the punters mebbe) Any tips or tutorials for how to using 3 strand hemp? Ideally I'd like to end up with summat that looks like Or Even all round rather than wi' a gurt big lump on one side.

Knitted woolly cap yes, specifically one of they Voyaguer/Swallows and Amazons hats with the tassel no.

Take the bus to Oxford (cheaper by far than the train) go see The Pitt Rivers Museum, especially the Top upstairs gallery(Weapons and armour), hit the Museum of Scientific Instruments (Next to the Bodlein Library). Waterfields bookseller down near Magdalen is an old school second hand bookshop worth checking out (Aaah the smell....) Blackwells is good for new books Then there's shed loads of decent pubs and lots of student girls....

http://www.snuffstore.co.uk/ do some good'uns. Their coffee snuff kept me going during a very dull weekend =o) and they do Dutch snuff still ground by windmill https://mrsnuff.com/store/index.php?osCsid=a28d86e194b3b131796a8c61db600740 have lots too.

Mashed up with a bit of gravy and suet and made into 'dumplings' worked too. Reminded me of 'Biscuits AB' from British Army Compo Rations, you could stand on the packets and not break the things.

We did an 1812 'do' at the Tower of London and we made biscuit for that (flour water salt), it worked well as a thickener /bulker for the stews and one of the leftover biscuits served as a teether for both my mates children.

Don't forget wedging the stuff up your nose! Snuff was fairly popular with the Dons in the 17thC and after a bit of a scrap in 1702 near Vigo when us British and the Dutch give the Spanish and French navies a thrashing and capture a couple of ships full of snuff it's a habit that is taken up here and in our Colonies. In the mid 18thC when Boswell tours the Highlands of Scotland the locals crave snuff more than baccy for smoking....prob'ly to damp to get a pipe lit (joke). Search for Vigo prize snuff. Also for a brief overview this site http://www.snufftobacco.co.uk/17c-snuff Much better habit for gunners to take up, no stray sparks =o)

Squib is also the term they used for a 'blank' cartridge used when training troops loading drill, when they want a flash and a bang but no ball. The quill could be the fuse, we used 'straws' with powder for the rockets when we did 1812 at the ToL.

You get hazel, withy and lathe bindings on barrels, also rope, copper and iron. Some are flatpack, designed to be stripped down to staves and heads for transportation when empty. Dunno 'bout new but there's plenty of ex wine barrels about over there for conversion http://www.usedwinebarrels.com/ But that's only one shape, period images of barrels show tall and thin as well as the more familiar squat shape. Barrels do need looking after, the 30odd big casks work got for'set dressing' fell apart after a year or two, the hazel and withy hoops dry and crack then spring leaving you with a barrel jigsaw. Modern central heating isn't good for them either, dries them out too much. Some are made to be kept wet and vicky verka. Essentially they are disposable items and think hard before investing your hard earned cash as you may have to replace it every couple of years.

In the UK either go to Reiver Trading or directly to A.E. Williams in Birmingham. Williams mould store is a treasure trove with moulds going back to 1620 maybe even earlier. Ignore the tourist tat on the website and talk to them direct.

Context is the key, they (press etc) scare you with banned banned banned but in kit at a show, unless the copper is a newbie, you 'should' be okay, Manchester city centre on a saturday night , apart from being seriously underarmed =o), not s'good. You can own what you like, just don't carry unless you have a need. In mufti I nearly always have a swiss army on me, lanyarded to a belt loop or pocket lid . The main use has been trimming sticks or making crude bows for Small when we go play in the woods or boring a hole in his orange juice bottle so it can take a straw if he has happy meal in the Lair of the Beef Clown. Never had a prob but then I'm a bloke in my late 40's with my son. I'm guessing if I was 20 in a hoody flashing it round it'd be different. Attitude is another key, got my first sheath knife aged 8 from me Granddad who spent half hour explaining how to look after it ,keep it clean and sharp etc and another half hour explaining EXACTLY how far he was going to thrash my skinny white arse if he ever caught me or found out that I was misusing it (threatening people, torturing animals, taking it to school etc) and I knew he would! So our little gang never did, we made bows and flint tipped arrows and shot them t each other, same with spears but never even thought about using a knife as anything but a tool. Bugger that turned into a rant dint it =o/ As you were, nowt to see here , carry on.