Crudbeard

Back to the safety meetings ---- I think the comment that they were well, "clunky" last year is accurate, and this year, now that those putting them on have had a first go at it (a bigger more complicated battle was attempted last year than previous) they should do a lot better with keeping attention, cutting chatter, and clarity of message. We had last year to find out what didn't work so well, and since the safety officers are mostly the same for this year, things should improve. They'd better.

Oh, and just to be picky, what Hern is calling a carronade really is a cannon. The difference is that the true carronades of the Napoleonic wars was not mounted with the trunnions sticking out of the sides, but had a big eye on the bottom which pinned the barrel to a slide. We call the Hern gun a carronade because it has the typical muzzle shape and breech rope loop of the true carronades, but in actual fact it isn't a carronade as it also lacks the chamber, short length, and thin wall that they had. You might want to call it a gunnade, as some numbers of small caliber carronades were made with trunnions instead of the eyes on the bottom so they could mount in a naval truck carriage or field carriage.

In regard to Hern, they sorter represent a starting point, I have one myself, a three pounder for field use cast from the Viceroy's pattern (he doesn't do cast iron right now). But if the use is shipboard, well there's a reason all the old ship signalling guns you see are bronze. I have some one pounder cast iron cannon from Southbend, another good cannon maker, on board as well as some three pounder steel carronades, and let me tell ya, chasing the rust ain't fun. While I have found Thompson Bore Butter to be the best preventitive so far, you still have to be right on with cleaning and gooping in the marine environment. I strongly recommend BRONZE for shipboard use.

Amen to all the above. I also find most telling the comment about how long the people had been firing weapons. While there are a few, a very few, who can claim a vast experience with firing with justification (such as Matt Switlik), the rest of us are still students, beginners, newbys, and novices, and we had better act that way. There will always be something more to learn about safety and I hope to God I never, ever, act like I don't appreciate any concerns brought to my attention. I appreciate the job of safety officer, having that honor to be one of them at the last Fort Taylor event, and understand that some judgement ends up applied. On the one hand, we can make things truely safe by running out on the field and yelling bang, not firing at all. The other end of the spectrum is having little or no control at all, as in the above examples it seems. And judgement calls are influenced by pressures both ways. Things are easier when you are the Captain of your own crew and can set the procedures and enforce them, and can scream and holler to make sure that mistakes are not repeated. But when you deal with larger events with lots of other crews, you don't want to be such a pain in the ass that the show sucks and the other pirates don't want to come back next year and play with you. You certainly don't want to be a pain, but clear indication of danger trumps what you "want" to do. And also, we're pirates after all, symbolizing the historical group that exemplified defiance of the rules. Unlike the F&I, Rev war, and Civ war folks, we don't have much of a military organization and chain of command, and personally I find it rather interesting and providential that we don't seem to have more accidents than we do, probably due in large part to this very forum. At a minimum, we need to follow the AAA or National Cannon Safety rules which give a base, but how much further should we go? As I say, it is not all that clear, at least to me. If I have the fortune to be firing or safety officering at an event with you, please don't hesitate to share your concerns with me, and if you would like to elaborate or differ with these thoughts expressed, why matey, good on ya, as you may keep me from blowing off me own head or someone elses.

I would like to weigh in on the earlier original post on getting a firearm. I sorter wish the pirate community would stay away from the percussion caps. Yep, they ARE more reliable, but in my opinion, they don't fit well with flintlocks, aside from the historical inaccuracy. They have a very different sound from a flintlock, which makes me think something may be amiss when I hear one at a big festival. It isn't a very big thing, but the battle officers are listening for wot don't sound right, and caps distract.

Put down the Pirates of the Dark Rose planning ta be there. We'll be bringing Crudbeard, Bloodthirsty, Viceroy, Oreo, and two more of me crew, Miss Felicity and Fenris Chase. Also we have another character this season that seems ta be showing up whenever Bloodthirsty ain't around, some British officer callin himself Major Mayhem. Plan to set up in the Fort agin with the two tents we usually bring (mine and Viceroy's) and we'll need some room out the back of ours as usual. We also plan to have some new artillery of the Viceroy's. Can't wait ta see all of yus agin. Crudbeard

I also think, although it isn't ever mentioned, that pirates tended to the smaller vessels because they rarely had access to the shore support that large vessels such as galleons, frigates, etc. required. As they used "pick up" crews, they would also have a problem securing personnel for the specialized departments like carpentry, coopers, sailmakers, etc. that maintain the larger ones. Also, the work of maintenance goes up exponentially as the vessel gets bigger, pirates would have a problem with the work load. Gotta have time for rum ya know.

Actually a howitzer was commonly found in the fighting tops, according to Gilkerson. King howitzers looking something like a coehorn mortar but with trunnions in the center instead of the ends could have 6 to 8 inch bores and be two feet long and still be handled easily up there. The term howitzer referred to a very light tube for the diameter of the bore with a chamber about half the size of the bore for the powder. It was found that this reduced charge of powder needed to be in a smaller diameter chamber in the breech behind the projectile. So this made them short range weapons, ideal for firing down onto enemy decks.

Capt., Pirates of the Dark Rose are planning on the 12X18 we usually bring, and I assume Viceroy will want to bring his 10 ft diameter. But we will need room for the artillery park in front of the tents too, and the ship rail for the cannon lessons if you want that. Wow, this is going to be tight in the Fort! Has anyone stated whether the cannons can go on the walls this next year. that would help a lot.

If you like, I can set up me six pounder and the ship's rail and do Crudbeard's Cannon Lessons. I havn't been doing it a lot in recent PIPs although it is a mainsay of our Pirates of the Dark Rose gigs, because it takes a crowd, and we have not really gotten a lot of crowd. Sounds like some money may be changing that. Hope So.

I notice that Pirates of the Dark Rose is in the Roll Call, but lists only myself, Crudbeard. I think Bloodthirsty Barbara can be persuaded to come along with me, and of course Oreo the raven. And we should not forget the Viceroy. thankee

Well I must admit that I was sorter takin a look see at how things went this year, with Harry gone, and the great guns not firing from the casemate and all, but Bloodthirsty, Oreo, an I really did think this one was the best yet fer us. So please do add The Pirates of the Dark Rose ta yer roll call fer next year. It were quite fun ta wake up on the beach with the sounds of the surf, takes me back ta 1720, but we ended up using the Viceroy's tent inside the fort anyway fer most of our artillery stuff, so we would like to be back inside next year. One request though, the front of the sally port at the Viceroy's tent is the only place on the parade that had standing water after the Saturday deluge. Iffen that be tha place yer wants us like previous years before last, let us know, so as ta bring lots of plastic fer ground cover. From my point o view, I thought some things worked a lot better this year. Others would see it differently I would imagine, but the safety seemed ta me ta be ramped up considerable, and that does give me tha feelin that pirates are less likely ta need peglegs, hooks, or new heads cause of our boom-booms. I really liked the chance ta walk over the battle that ended up happenin Sunday, thought that it made a big difference, and would like ta see walk throughs next year if possible. As the Arch Angel crew was able ta block an awesome fight fer, I think it be worth it ta let tha talent from all tha crews shine forth, even if it be a bit more hassle. I also think the great gun drill on Thursday was worth it. Now I cannot speak fer tha Viceroy, but I was adamant that anyone on a cannon crew of one of my guns had ta drill BEFORE getting on the firing line. The reality is that we need pickup gunners on cannon crews at PIP, and this is a good thing that pirates can get on a cannon crew. But, right before tha battle, with the start time coming up, is not the time I be thinkin ta work out the details of tha drill. So one of my pieces was not used, but as my guns have my name on 'em, any accident, and I am involved. I also really enjoyed tha input from other knowledgeable gunners like Mad Dog during tha drill, as it made our collective expertise avaliable to all, and got us on tha same page, so ta speak. So I would also request that time(s) be set fer cannon drill fer those a wishin ta be on a gun crew an don't have their own gun. These be tha onlyest things I kin suggest from this year, an they be ta do two things that were done, an I thought worked, which be good, I'm a thinkin. Fair winds til next year iffen I don't wash ashore at some event and see ya scoundrels afore. Crudbeard

I am so...so...sorry that this happened. Everyone that participates in the Pub chating about cannons now feels that chilling dread creeping up your back. Will they do something? Will we like it? Crudbeard

I agree with the concern over the safe life of a cannon. As a former rigging engineer, we always used to say that it is not a question of whether rigging will fail, just when it will fail, as it will always fail eventually. The trick is to inspect, maintain, repair if possible, and retire the damn thing before someone gets hurt. In regard to the concern about drilling the touch hole in a sleeved gun, and just about all modern manufactured cannon are sleeved of course, I think the concern is quite valid. There are many things that could cause a cavity in the vent, movement of the sleeve being one, and porosity of the breech wall another. Quality manufacturers try in various ways to make sure this does not happen, but my feeling is that the safest thing is to sleeve the vent with a softer bushing such as copper that has some give to it to make sure the vent doesn't open into the wall of the breech. This way if the sleeve does move due to thermal expansion or gap between the sleeve and casting, or anything else, there will be some tolerance for this condition. And copper bushings are just the way they did vents back then, when the inevitable erosion of of the vent needed to be repaired. The Viceroy (Lawrence Campbell) and I plan to thread a copper vent bushing into the hardened steel sleeves of the big bronze pieces mentioned above, since there is no doubt that the steel, aluminum, and bronze, having different coeffeficients of thermal expansion, will not want to move together as the temperature of the gun changes. So better safe than sorry. Crudbeard

Well, I'm glad that mebbe we'll have a chance ta hoist a tankard if ya do make it. Harry, I really will be missin yer at PIP, and hope yer excursion out West goes well. It has been such a pleasure working with you. Crudbeard

As I am doing the liners for these pieces, let me jump in. Lawrence and I started with the design objective to match the strength of a bronze piece with the liner alone. Taking the one caliber breech wall as a given in cannons, the yield strength of of the cannon bronze of the day, the yield strength of the modern steel liner (1026 cold drawn mech. tube) and using the hoop stress formula, we get a minimum thickness for the steel liner of .77 inches. Increasing the liner to one full inch as we are doing adds a safety factor of 125%. The aluminum and the bronze will also add something substancial in safety factor, and the liners will be proofed with a 200% blank charge before assembly in the bronze shells. Crudbeard

Excellent ta have tha Viceroy aboard! Wot we needs is more Vice. Crudbeard

Yup, that's where we get ours too, as he is just over the mountain from us. When you order, tell J.R. you're a pirate. Don't call in the morning, as he is a mail man and runs his route. Afternoon is best. Crudbeard

Thighbiter, that's interesting about the lower trunnion placement having to do with the casting. Makes sense. Thanks. I re-read my earlier comment and realize I wrote the opposite of what I intended. What I meant to say was that the center line placement was recent, originated by the British. Another interesting arcainia on trunnions is the "gunnade", a carronade barrel cast with trunnions instead of the lug on the bottom. These smaller caliber pieces were made at the very end of the muzzleloading era, and used a lot for frontier defense in Canada and Alaska, as the guns were lighter than cannon to transport out to the forts. I'll have a model of one at Buccaneers and Privateers in New London April 24th to show ya.

Indeed, aexcellent article. I have printed it out for myself; I want to save that one. On the question of trunnion placement, my information is that moving the trunnions down below the centerline of the cannon barrel was a fairly recent inovation by the British, designed to make the recoil motion better. Also I understand it didn't work as intended. The cast iron rods holding the core in place in the article are now called "chaplets", and they are very evil things. When a gun founder wants to save casting metal, they can form a core out of hardend sand and hold it centered in the barrel mould with chaplets, which end up cast into the gun. The evil nature of chaplets is that they penetrate the barrel wall at right angles, and even though they are usually headed like a carriage bolt, they have a very wicked tendency to eventually erode and fire like bullets out to the side of the piece. This is one of the reasons why modern period artillery rules require a steel sleeve in the bore. Crudbeard

To add a bit of arcainia to the discussion of trunnions, my artillery mentor (used to work for South Bend Replicas) told me that one thing common to cast in sleeves in barrels is that the extra casting metal cooling at cast on trunnions will cause a degree of constriction, or a necking effect in a thin wall sleeve halfway down the bore at the trunnions. This is one reason why more expensive barrels are drilled, and the sleeve pressed and shrunk into the casting. For blank firing purposes this is immaterial really, but in accuracy competiton where the windage of the ball is at a minimum, you could have a problem.

If you don't think you can harden your frizzen yourself, you can always send the lock to Blair at Loyalist Arms (see website). He will fix whatever ails it. Fixed mine. Crudbeard

Here's an informative article on the Iowa's turret explosion. While black powder was present as priming it's not the item that malfunctioned on that tragic day. Link: Iowa Turret Explosion This is a long read so I don't want to repost the entire text. In a nutshell high speed mechanical over ramming caused the explosion is the current theroy. The ram ripped open a secondary propellant holder due to over ram, via the ramming speed there was enough friction for the spilled smokless powder pellets (propellant) to get hot enough to burn and they then set off the black powder priming charge layer which in turn detonated all bags. Thankee kindly Graydog fer tha correction. Me old pate ain't whot it uster be, an holds like a leaky bucket. I'm now thinkin that the wet blackpowder accident was maybe a blank firing by the National Guard? I'll have to go through my old issues of Artilleryman an try ta find the article. But, I do remember a discussion of some accident that was attributed to wet blackpowder holding a spark in the breech, with a caution on too wet a barrel. Anybody else know? Crudbeard

Interestingly enough, I have the same feelings about the concerns you mentioned. Wow, on the same page! I also won't use a baggie, and I think there was a article in Artilleryman years ago that also expressed an issue with the chance of a static spark from the plastic. I know that a lot of the replica ships use 'em, as they commonly soak the bore until water spouts out the vent. I must confess though, that we do not dry sponge. My feeling is that dry sponging is required when the wet sponging is too wet due to inexperienced gun crews. I worry that the dry sponge will not soak up all the excess water. And remember the big gun disaster the US Navy had a decade ago, finally attributed to wet black powder in the breech I think. We also do not use gauntlets, except on the vent, and for the same reason you mention. We found that there was too much fumbling and not enough "feel" in the ramming process. Ya don't want your safety equipment to cause an accident. Instead we use a "safety rammer" when firing multiple shots. And, while we don't wad anymore, I have always understood that bread and grass are pretty much the only acceptable wadding for the Great Guns. The biggest difference I have noticed in the pirate community's gun drill is that nobody but us brushes the vent. While it enhances safety, brushing also keeps friction primers going in and out of the vent better to avoid a problem there, if that is the way you are firing. I happen to agree with three minutes, not that 2 minutes 55 seconds is unsafe, but we all know that slower is safer. We find that our crews, doing the AAA style drill that we use, time out at about three minutes. My feeling is that three minutes between shots is slow for festival audiences used to the pace of action movies, and we do get the impression that we should 'hurry it up" sometimes. Particularly when firing in battery, the tendency is to for gun crews to get in a race to be ready before the other guns. So we try to resist the hurrys, and keep our heads, where they belong of course, on our shoulders. Crudbeard

I think the pirate community might be better served by encouraging the event coordinators to post this information on the individual event websites. It really is important for prospective participants to know the rules ahead of time, and I think the people that run the events need to be made to understand the importance of getting the information out there. It could be made part of an information package, such as Harry makes available for PiP. The problem with posting the information here on the PUB is that what was current in past years may no longer be valid for this year, and the "official safety officers" and their views on the accepted procedures may not always be the same from year to year. For instance, in the early years of the Hampton Blackbeard Festival, it was me, but I have not been there for several years, so things have probably changed to some degree. Another issue is that not everybody reads the PUB, so this should not be the only source of this info. It really belongs on the event websites. Having said all that, I would encourage those in authority to post the information here on the PUB in more than one location prior to the event, in addition to making it available on the event websites. It should probably be posted here in the Armory section and in the Raids section also as the event draws near. Until such time as there is a universally accepted set of rules that applies to all events, that seems the best course of action to me. >>>> Cascabel I agree with Cascabel on the small arms, makes sense to me. But I don't know as much about how they are handled as I would like, as I don't really get to do much of them, being aways it seems on the Great Guns. I would advocate, and have been, when anyone will lissen ta an old fool, that we all abide by the American Artillery Association Cannon rules, as they are universally accepted. Put together many decades ago primarily by Matt Switlik, one of the original gurus of modern shooting of antique artillery, they are simple, clear, and have not changed. You can easily google them by name or at Artilleryman magazine, which I also recommend as a source for finding out what some other damn idiot did ta cause an accident, so you don't do the same thing. Crudbeard