dasNdanger Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 1)matches...2) knives and fids ....3)clay pipes ....4)fingerless gloves Yeah...the knife is usually worn at the small of the back, and the marlin spike or small fid would possibly be in the same sheath. The links Tales/7Seas gives mentions something about the pipes, I believe...pirates would smoke pipes when they went ashore...but not on the ship because of the fire thing...so they chewed tobacco instead. I like how you carry yours... Question: Would the pipe be kept in some kind of box when stored in chest or bag to prevent breakage?? Thanks for the info on 'skoggers'...I feel very enlightened! Love to learn new things!! Lastly...what did they do before matches were invented?? Can't see a pirate rubbing sticks together to light a pipe!! And using the flash of a gun doesn't seem practical if ya wanna keep yer 'stache ....so what WAS used?? The slowmatch you've mentioned before...or something else? I mean, carrying a hot tin in yer drawers doesn't sound very practical...not unless yer tryin' to cure something... Or didn't it much matter since most places had a fire or candle lit SOMEWHERE...so it was just a matter of 'borrowing' a light from someone/thing else...??? das --- apologizing in advance for the stupid questions... http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfTheSevenSeas Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I don't know of any exhumed pirates, but there are some very interesting, but hard to look at, photos of the amazingly well-preserved bodies of the sailors Franklin Expedition of 1854. They went to the antarctic and were never heard from again. They were eating food preserved in tins sealed with lead and got lead poisoning. Their bodies were exhumed in the 1980's and were in an amazing state of preservation, frozen in the ice. You can see just how they dressed, and even what they looked like. Here are a couple of the photos, but be advised that they are disturbing -Claire "Poison Quill" Warren Pyrate Mum of Tales of the Seven Seas www.talesofthesevenseas.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I don't know of any exhumed pirates, but there are some very interesting, but hard to look at, photos of the amazingly well-preserved bodies of the sailors Franklin Expedition of 1854. They went to the antarctic and were never heard from again. They were eating food preserved in tins sealed with lead and got lead poisoning. Their bodies were exhumed in the 1980's and were in an amazing state of preservation, frozen in the ice. You can see just how they dressed, and even what they looked like. wowwwwww that was top 10 cool. :) "This calls for a particularly subtle blend of psychology & extereme violence." -Vivian, The Young Ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longarm Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 As for working knives I was lucky enough to spend time with a knife maker by the name of Sam Cox. He had been commisioned by the S.C. Maritime Heritage Foundation to produce a historicly acurate rigging knife for the (hopefully soon to be built ) Spirit of South Carolina. When I asked him why the knives had no points I was given a couple of answers. 1. Having a point on a moving deck can be dangerious to yourself as well as your shipmates. One good swell and you could end up sticking yourself or some one else. This will not make you very popular among the crew. 2. A rigging knife was mainly a chopping blade. The back of the blade was alot thicker than most knives. The reason being that the sharpe edge would be placed on the rope to be cut and then the rigger would use a wooden malet to strike the back of the knife to cut through the rope. Over time the vibration this causes in the knife, ends up weakening the metal of the blade, especialy the point where the metal is the thinest. This weaking of the metal soon leads to the point breaking off. I also had an old time sailor tell me that to discourage fights among the crew, the captain would delibratly break the points off a sailors knife when he boarded the ship. I tend to believe this man because he had the look of someone who could have sailed with old Noah himself, and had alot of experiance with sailing and the sea. If anyone is interested in seeing some of Sam Cox's work or the rigging knife I spoke of go to: www.samcox.us or www.scmaritime.org. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. To me it smells like....PIRACY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalesOfTheSevenSeas Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Paisley, Yeah I agree. It is so amazing to look at the face of someone who was REALLY THERE. As a history junkie, I'm just amazed to see that young sailor's face that still carries personality and expression. I felt the same way when I got to go into the vault of the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum in San Jose CA with the curator and hold some of the artifacts, including a well-preserved mummified head. It's not morbid fascination for me, but a window back in time. -Claire "Poison Quill" Warren Pyrate Mum of Tales of the Seven Seas www.talesofthesevenseas.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Lastly...what did they do before matches were invented?? Can't see a pirate rubbing sticks together to light a pipe!! And using the flash of a gun doesn't seem practical if ya wanna keep yer 'stache ....so what WAS used?? The slowmatch you've mentioned before...or something else? I mean, carrying a hot tin in yer drawers doesn't sound very practical...not unless yer tryin' to cure something...Or didn't it much matter since most places had a fire or candle lit SOMEWHERE...so it was just a matter of 'borrowing' a light from someone/thing else...??? das --- apologizing in advance for the stupid questions... Hey! No such thing as stupid questions. How else do we learn to be pirates? Not like there's much OJT going about these days. I carry a flint and steel kit in my pouch. 'Bout the size of a playing card and 3/4 inch thick. Has steel striker, sharp chunk of flint, wad of oakum or tow, charcloth, small beeswax candle, and a short lenth of slowmatch. My preference is to light the slowmatch first, and then use that to light the tinder and then the fire. A bit slow, but it works for me. 'Course, if it's just the pipe I'm lighting, then the slowmatch alone is enough. Don't know if ships kept a watch lantern burning at all times. In garrisons, they did, so they could always light match instantly. And there was always the kitchen fires as well. From what I've read, clearing for battle involved getting rid of all fires, just in case. I would guess that included any lit candles, but I don't have documentation to that effect. And people who are really good with flint and steel can have a fire going in aout 8-10 seconds, anyway. My pipe stays in a brass case in the seachest for 18th c. Standard pipe, shortened a bit in the stem to fit the case. My 16th c pipe is smaller than a thimble and has a 3 inch stem. I've got a cuirbolli (hard leather) case for it patterned after Sir Walter Raleigh's, which is in the Wallace Collection in London. Both protect well in the seachest. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 each sailor would carry a marlin spike? why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Coyote Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Marlinespike is the art of seamanship that includes the tying of various knots, splicing, working with cable or wire rope, worming, parceling, serving and even making decorative ornaments from rope or line. The name marlinespike is derived from the tool that is used for splicing. It can be a tapered metal pin or carved of wood. Alternate spellings include marlinspike, marlin spike, marlingspike. I'm not sure, but a fid may be the same thing. Can anyone confirm? Rumors of my death were right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Royaliste Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Marlinspikes have many functions; a fid is a tapered pin for just the purpose of holding the lay of the rope or cable open for the next tuck....or, in more modern yacht braids, to open the core..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhand Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Speaking of knot tying & the like, a friend of mine who also does 18th century maritime living history has a beautiful "Turkshead" around the base of his pipe stem, there's something I wish I had the patience and talent to do! someday I'll get him to tie me one a those on me pipe! Cheers Redhand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Coyote Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I've seen the books on basic knotwork. What would be a good resource for the decorative stuff? Rumors of my death were right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pirata Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 lipstick, kleenex, breath mints, coupons, keys to the ship, somethin' to write with, somethin' to write on, perfume, couple of condoms (you NEVER know). LMAO!!!!! Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scupper Posted November 8, 2003 Author Share Posted November 8, 2003 Mr Hawkyns. Do you have any pictures or links for your fire starter setup and pipe with case? I'd be interested in seeing one to duplicate for myself. Scupper "That's the navy for you. Rum in the scuppers today. Blood in the scuppers tomorrow."Thrist is a shameless disease. So here's to a shameful cure!"Loyalty, honesty and directness are traits I admire. Insecurity, snipes and disrespect I will not tolerate in the least." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Mr Hawkyns. Do you have any pictures or links for your fire starter setup and pipe with case? I'd be interested in seeing one to duplicate for myself.Scupper Scupper, If'n ye can get to the School of the Sailor next Sat in Tolland, I'll be pleased ta show ya in person. I sent details t' ye in private mail. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scupper Posted November 9, 2003 Author Share Posted November 9, 2003 Excellent. can you pay at the door? Scupper "That's the navy for you. Rum in the scuppers today. Blood in the scuppers tomorrow."Thrist is a shameless disease. So here's to a shameful cure!"Loyalty, honesty and directness are traits I admire. Insecurity, snipes and disrespect I will not tolerate in the least." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Hmmmm, don't know. I sent my money in last week. Here's the contact info with a phone number: The Pine Tree Shilling / Advertising PO Box 1005 Charlestown, NH 03603-1005 phone/fax (603) 826-3327 Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scupper Posted November 9, 2003 Author Share Posted November 9, 2003 My thanks Mr Hawkyns. I can tell be mates with you will be an enlightening experience as I love history as well as piracy. Scupper "That's the navy for you. Rum in the scuppers today. Blood in the scuppers tomorrow."Thrist is a shameless disease. So here's to a shameful cure!"Loyalty, honesty and directness are traits I admire. Insecurity, snipes and disrespect I will not tolerate in the least." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Pray tell us more about this School of the Sailor, Mate Hawkyns; it sounds MOST interestin'. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 It's out of the re-enactment community here in Southern New England This was the announcement I got: Just got word that the seminar that was cancelled a few months ago dealing with "Using the Water Highways ~ Vessels, Economics, Seafaring Details" is back on and Scheduled for Saturday November the 15th. Once again to be held at the Benton Homestead in Tolland. Instead of a 2 day affair, it will be one day form 8:30 A.M. (reg) to 6 P.M. It will be the same format as the last time with topics of Sailors Clothing of the new England Seaboard 18th Cent. Putting on the Tar (Frank Rodriques) Marlin spike seamanship Women as sailors Tools for navigation Famous Privateers of New England, and lastly Naval Small Arms of the American Revolution. A table will be set up for book sales and other materials. Price for the full day event is $50, (plus 5 if you get lunch from them) Reg can be sent to the Pine Tree Shilling, PO Box 1005, Charlestown, NH. 03603. Cancellations after Nov 1st will be assessed a $20 fee. Just let me know if you plan on attending. There's a growing naval re-enactment group growing up here. Some members of the crew of the HMS Richmond have set up thier own group, the crew of the Speedwell. Some of us also volounteer on the Providence and also on the Half Moon. There is a definite disconnect between naval re-enactors and pyrate re-enactors. I'm one of the few I know that crosses the line and does both. I also do 18th c trekking and F&I artillery, so the hard-core authenticity is normal to me. Not all pyrate groups or people take to it. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hawkyns, that sounds mighty interesting. Wish it were closer to me home, but it might well be worth the trip from New Orleans next year. :) Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 :) Ive also seen two or three examples of a snaphaunce lock set into a tinderbox as a kind of mechanical match. Know they were common among the Rendezvous era types, so see no reason they shouldn't have been common at sea as well. Drop a kitten six feet, and she grins... Drop an elephant six feet, and ya gots yerself a mess ta clean up.... Sometimes bein' the biggest and most powerful is the LAST thing you wanna be..... Mad Ozymandias Zorg the Unsnottered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 But were these "snaphaunce lighters" old pieces, mate, or something someone put together in today's era? Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 They were period to the mid 18th C. Dixie sells them as kits and finished pieces. Not a snaphaunce, but a boxlock flintlock. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info....roducts_id=1220 Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 There were also chemical matches, "pocket lucifers", of several various compositions, though I confess I don't know when they first came into use. Suspect the technology is early renaissance, but common use probably weren't til the 18th C. Mad Zorg Drop a kitten six feet, and she grins... Drop an elephant six feet, and ya gots yerself a mess ta clean up.... Sometimes bein' the biggest and most powerful is the LAST thing you wanna be..... Mad Ozymandias Zorg the Unsnottered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 The Dixie Gunworks tinder lighter is very interesting, Hawkyns; though at $70.00, I'm not planning on ordering one until me crew seizes better prizes! I also liked the percussion burglar alarm; probably more effective than these modern electronic noisemakers; make the bottom feeder believe someone fired a gun at him! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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