Anyone play the Bodhran??

[Rats]

Since I've had a Bodhran for years (got it from mom years ago)!

I'm wondering if it's period correct, having seen plenty of trad groups play it for years???

Though I can't find the tipper to save my life, I might actually consider learning to play the doggone thing!?

Anyone have one??

Rats!

[Patrick Hand]

tipper

Is that the double headed drumstick?

If so, just whittle one...

[Rats]

Actually mate, I meant the whole drum.

I can get the tippers for about five to ten bucks online.

I'm just wondering if anyone plays the thing???

Thanks again!

Rats

[Fox]

Playing the Bodhran is like riding a bicycle: the technique is a little difficult to pick up at first, but once you've got the basics it becomes pretty easy to play quite complex rhythms.

I don't know how accurate it'd be. Bodhrans probably date back to antiquity, but they are a peculiarly Irish instrument.

[kass]

Yeah, and the ones with the Guiness label on them are right out!

Hey Rats, mind if I have Bob PM you about this? He's was a percussion major in college and he might be able to answer this definitively (and give you some tips on how to play).

[Captain Tightpants]

Long story short, it's as "traditional" as mid-20th-century Irish apologetica can make it.

See, the Irish know so little about their ancient folkways. It's disturbing that there must be so much apologetica wrapped up in things like kilts and bodhrans, but there you are.

But hey, if you want to play one, knock yourself out! As others have pointed out, it's not that hard.

If you want to read more, Google "bodhran history" - it'll give you enough information to thoroughly confuse anyone.

Bob

P.S. A guy walks into a pub in Belfast with a large rucksack on his back. The barman, with a worried look, asks, "What's that you have there?" The man replies, "Ten kilos of Semtex and some detonators." The barman lets out his breath and says, "Oh, thank Jesus; I thought you had a bodhran."

[Red-Handed Jill]

I play the bodhran; I've found that it lends itself to traditional tunes really well. As far as ease of play, it's easy enough to pick up more complex beats once you learn the technique properly. It's being able to play it consistently through an entire song that's the challenge.

Also, I recommend working with weights - preferably low weights with lots of reps to gain stamina. The most common thing I've seen with beginners - particularly men - is that they start to learn the technique but even after several months are exhausted after just one song or sometimes can't even finish one. I deliberately went with a heavy tipper early and built up stamina the hard way - but, I can play for hours, even with a heavy tipper.

[Kenneth]

The Bodhran is easy to learn. Buy a book a practice technique. Yes they are period for GAoP and don't let anyone say they are not. Play along to some Chieftan's Cd's and you'll be a pro in no time! From experience, stay away from all the "I'll show you how" people and learn quietly, alone, away from the ones you love...

Did you know the Irish invented the bagpipes and gave them to the Scottish as a joke?........They never got it!

[Captain Tightpants]

The Bodhran is easy to learn.  From experience, stay away from all the "I'll show you how" people and learn quietly, alone, away from the ones you love...

Learning certainly isn't rocket science! If you can handle chopsticks, you can handle a tipper. Best bet is to seek out lessons from an experienced player in your local area.

Play along to some Chieftan's Cd's and you'll be a pro in no time!

This, on the other hand, is not a good idea at all. In the first place, Kevin Conneff is one of the best bodhrán drummers on the face of the planet, and plays things that amaze the educated listener. Second, unless you have the proper technique in your head and hands already, just slapping on a CD and picking up the drum is the single best way to build and reinforce bad habits and technique. You need the basics before you can play well; in other words, crawl before you walk. To extend the metaphor, Kevin Conneff is Carl Lewis, where I - a classically trained percussionist who is more than accomplished on a variety of percussion instruments, including bodhrán - am a toddling babe.

Buy a book a practice technique.

Again, bad advice. Buy instead some lessons with a variety of teachers until you find one whose style and demeanor fits your personality and goals. If you're going to take playing seriously - and why wouldn't you? - you'll be spending quite a bit of time with this person, and you learn more readily from someone you like and respect.

Yes they are period for GAoP and don't let anyone say they are not.

Excuse me? [looks around] I'm saying they're not. The difference is I can back up what I say with evidence. Click here and read. As you'll find, the bodhrán became associated with traditional Irish music in the 1950s, recorded by bands like The Clancy Brothers, Ceoltóirí Chualann and the aforementioned Chieftains. This view is commonly held among professional ethnomusicologists.

For that matter, "traditional" Irish music isn't actually accurate to GAoP, as the songs as we know them can be traced only as far back as the Irish Revival of the late 19th century. Moreover, though it is a point of contention amongst ethnomusicologists, it is agreed that the transition from solo performance - i.e., sean nós - to band or group playing can be traced no further back than the 1850s.

Neither the bodhrán nor the Irish music we listen to on CD can be documented to GAoP. Wishing it were doesn't make it so.

[Silkie McDonough]

I must both agree and disagree with Captain Tightpants.

The Bodhran was indeed not used in traditional music until the 1950's. I have both read, and have been informed by several knowledgeable traditional musicians and the heirs of some of those originally recorded.

Sean nós is sung a cappella in competitions. Traditional Irish singing competitions are also a cappella and were invented to create interest in the music of the Irish Heritage. As a vocalist It is difficult to find traditional tunes that date back far enough but who is to say that a sea shanty, sung in the style of a traditional Irish tune was not used?

That having been said, the drum as the voice has been around for time untold and although the drum is not used in sean nós or traditional Irish tunes sung in English I challenge anyone to try to not beat on a table or tap their toe along with a fiddle tune. So I say, why not a drum?

Todays recordings are very different from what would be considered traditional. Both in the Irish genera and in sea shanties. A sea shanty sung at the correct cadence for work would not entertain an audience. An entire concert of sean nós would not entertain the average audience for long. Sean nós seems to be used often as a filler to spell the 'band' and dancers.

As with all things GAoP, records are difficult to find and trace. The discussion would be unending. It all goes back to is the event juried and how strict are the rules on THAT particular encampment. Additionally, what is used when the public is viewing an encampment may be relaxed when the public is abed and the music commences.

[Capt. Sterling]

Geeze Rats, another member of the crewe, Lynn's husband plays one... I'm sure he would love to help you out...

[Red-Handed Jill]

This, on the other hand, is not a good idea at all.  In the first place, Kevin Conneff is one of the best bodhrán drummers on the face of the planet, and plays things that amaze the educated listener.  Second, unless you have the proper technique in your head and hands already, just slapping on a CD and picking up the drum is the single best way to build and reinforce bad habits and technique.  You need the basics before you can play well; in other words, crawl before you walk. To extend the metaphor, Kevin Conneff is Carl Lewis, where I - a classically trained percussionist who is more than accomplished on a variety of percussion instruments, including bodhrán - am a toddling babe.

Yep - I've heard some folks who haven't even observed a trained player and have picked up some questionable habits - you can tell them from a mile away (and wish you couldn't.) Biggest issue I've heard is them sounding flat flat flat. They have a bodhran and they are hitting it with a tipper, but they aren't actually playing the damn thing.

Starting to learn how to play one is relatively easy (although not for all) - learning how to play one well is a lot more difficult. But once you get it and can play in public without embarrassing yourself, it's a blast.

[Rats]

(Looking around at the ruckus he started... Hee.. Hee hee!)

.....maybe I should have just asked about playing the pennywhistle???

Rats!

[Patrick Hand]

This ain't goinna sound right....

Jill can play a heck of a lot better than I can....Well heck... she's played more than I have.... I can kinda sorta do the basic poundin' ............

So my point... if you wanna do good... your going to have to laRn it....

If ya wanna have fun, and make noise.... well heck that works too...... (course Jill is going ter be hittin' me with her stick next tyme she see me fer postin' this..... )

[kass]

(Looking around at the ruckus he started... Hee.. Hee hee!)

.....maybe I should have just asked about playing the pennywhistle???

Rats!

Hey Rats,

It's not like Bob wouldn't have had a strong opinion on the penny whistle too! Bleeding musicologists...

[Captain Tightpants]

Opinions I got, in buckets.

You think we get snipy in historical threads here? You ought to read some of the sniping that takes place in the academic musicology journals. If some of that stuff was directed at me, I'd go jump in the Delaware and end it all. I mean, that stuff is vicious! It's written in good academic prose, but when you boil all the verbiage off it, it amounts to, "Dr Snuffy has cottage cheese for brains; he likely cannot discern the tonal difference between a trumpet and a diesel engine."

So yeah, musicologists are opinionated SOBs. Ethnomusicologists are even more so, because so much of their field is complete conjecture. Most of the arguments involve logical progression and extrapolation from available information, which - as we Captain Twill readers know - can bite one's arse quite painfully.

In re the above argument, however, the evidence presented is along the same lines as the evidential arguments in Captain Twill. We cannot document the bodhran as played in Chieftains-type music further back than the mid-C20, therefore any use by reenactors of period prior is anachronistic.

That said, I do love Irish music, and will bleedin' well bring my pennywhistle for a seisun anytime we want to have one.

[Red-Handed Jill]

This ain't goinna sound right....

Jill can play a heck of a lot better than I can....Well heck... she's played more than I have.... I can kinda sorta do the basic poundin' ............

So my point... if you wanna do good... your going to have to laRn it....

If ya wanna have fun, and make noise.... well heck that works too...... (course Jill is going ter be hittin' me with her stick next tyme she see me fer postin' this..... )

I'll make sure it's the heavy one Patt...

If you're playing with your buddies, then that's the best time to learn and practice and just have fun. As a paid musician, I have to know what the heck I'm doing. I'm not anywhere near where I want to be, though - there's a local studio musician who plays several instruments really well. When he plays the bodhran I'm mesmerized - in another ten years, with LOTS of practice I may be that good.

[Kenneth]

ssionist

This[/i], on the other hand, is not a good idea at all.  In the first place, Kevin Conneff is one of the best bodhrán drummers on the face of the planet, and plays things that amaze the educated listener.  Second, unless you have the proper technique in your head and hands already, just slapping on a CD and picking up the drum is the single best way to build and reinforce bad habits and technique.  You need the basics before you can play well; in other words, crawl before you walk. To extend the metaphor, Kevin Conneff is Carl Lewis, where I - a classically trained percussionist who is more than accomplished on a variety of percussion instruments, including bodhrán - am a toddling babe..

Amazing how many classically trained percussionist there are in the world! It's a hoop drum! The guy wants to learn how to play it. He didn't say he wanted to major in music history and all things Bodhran! Does it have to be that complicated? It came from Asia, it came from Africa, we'll never know. It's a hoop friggen drum thats been around for centuries.

In answer to the stupidest thing I've ever heard another musician say, you really should listen and learn from the best out there or you'll just be another drummer claiming to know it all.

Most of all, The Bodhran is supposed to be fun. Buy a book, you'll get all the technique you need, have fun and practice...... and one day, you too can know all things Bodhran like Captain Tightpants!

[kass]

Kenneth,

May I direct you to Rats' original post where he says:

Since I've had a Bodhran for years (got it from mom years ago)!

I'm wondering if it's period correct, having seen plenty of trad groups play it for years???

Rats is asking if the bodhran is period correct for the GAoP. It's not.

Frame drums are ancient. They're widely in use in the Middle East and Africa. But there is no evidence they were known in Western Europe in the period 1680-1725.

That's what the man asked. That's what the other man answered.

Don't scorn others just because your knowledge has been shown to be incorrect.

[Kenneth]

Though I can't find the tipper to save my life, I might actually consider learning to play the doggone thing!?

Anyone have one??

Rats!

Kass,

You left out some of rats question. I was suggesting a great way to learn since he his considering learning. He asked if anyone has one, I do, whats the problem. Hoop drums were banned during the golden age of piracy? The Dutch didn't have slaves from Africa? The pirates didn't sack ships with drums? Gimme a break! The Bodhran is a hoop drum, frame drum, "ghost" drum whatever. My suggestion of learning is wrong? Because? And there were no hoop drums during the GAoP? If you're going to quote someone, it would be nice to see the WHOLE quote. I was answering Rats, not asking for a lesson in all things percussion.

[kass]

Nope. He asked two questions: where he could learn to play the bodhran and is it period-appropriate to the GAoP. You (and others) answered his question about where he could learn to play. You answered the question about whether the drum was period appropriate incorrectly.

No one is telling Rats not to learn how to play the drum because it's not appropriate in the GAoP. But he asked the question and therefore obviously cares about the answer. He may choose to learn to play the drum, but choose not to bring it to GAoP events.

Personally, I LOVE the sound of a well-played bodhran. But if it's not period for the GAoP, I don't want it at events. I also don't want boom boxes, plastic furniture or nylon tents at events.

If you can demonstrate that an African slave taught a Dutchman how to play his native drum and they came to be in use in Holland (or elsewhere in Western Europe) during the GAoP, then please show us.

[Kenneth]

Actually, he never said anything about GAoP, I did. He simply asked if it was period......

Since it's obvious your knowledge exceeds mine, why don't you demonstrate how they didn't.

[Captain Tightpants]

Ken,

Actually, he never said anything about GAoP, I did. He simply asked if it was period......

Don't be pedantic. We're on a forum about - keep up with me here, 'cos I might be moving rather quickly - pirates. I somehow doubt Rats was talking about post-Pax-Brittanica Britain. The presumption of the site is GAoP. If you want to talk about pirates from any other place/era, you are enjoined to specify that place/era. Rats didn't do that.

Read my post. I provided you with the information source(s). Please read them. It's available on the Internet, fer crissakes. All you have to do is click a link.

Yes, frame drums existed. Hell, frame drums have probably existed in Ireland since God knows when. But that's not the point. The point - which you insist on missing - is that there is no evidence that the ancient frame drum equals the bodhran, or the frame drum as played in "traditional" Irish music.

And yes, it is possible that some people might be better informed than you in certain areas. You don't have to be pissy about it; it happens. [shrug] I don't know how to enbalm someone (yes, I've read your profile; try not to faint), you do. You were trained how to do that, and I respect your expertise. Why do you refuse to respect ours?

On second thought, consider that question rhetorical. I'm done with this pissing contest.

[Kenneth]

Thanks. I'm quite done too.

[Quartermaster James]

Damn! I just recently gave away both my bodhran and several tippers to one much more skilled than I.

Anyway, I wager dunkins (grog) to doughnuts (hardtack) to anyone that the Irish frame drum far predates any Dutch-African connection...

Long live the afro-celt diaspora!

Ever notice the evolution of the bagpipes across asia to europe?