The Boots We Wear (On Bucket Boots)

[Cpt. Alva]

Rule Number One: Never stop asking questions.....

if you hadn't asked, we never would've figured it out.....

I ain't trying to prove one way or another, and I don't have a problem with either (provided they're aware their boots ain't period), I'm just trying to present what I found.....

that being said, I still need to find a good pair of shoes.....heh.....

[smoolie671]

I was searching the web for something off topic when I stumbled upon this website: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17563/17563...3-h/17563-h.htm

As I scrolled through I found some curious pictures of what appears as men in bucket topped boots. Then I found several more.

Now in all fairness I have to wonder if they are actually wearing gators. It could be interpreted either way. They are certainly not of the "Sparrow" variety, but they look quite interesting none the less.

Tell me what you think.

[William Brand]

The buckets in some of the pictures, but not all, are probably the upper parts of stockings with a garter that makes it look like boots. It is difficult to say. Still...in the picture where the men are breaking down a door of the customs house, the men are probably town folk in pursuit of smugglers, and so the footwear could very well be boots.

[smoolie671]

When turned down at the knee, a pair of gators would for all intents and purposes look like bucket top boots from no more than a few feet away.

Also I thought it was the smuglers trying to break in. Interesting either way.

[smoolie671]

Also note that the pictures where they are not wearing "boots", the stockings are decidedly a very light color and not baggy, where the other pictures show a dark color and more boot-like.

[William Brand]

Since the book was written well after the Golden Age of Piracy, then liberties may have been taken with the illustrations for the piece. There may be too much conjecture present in the work to go one way or the other, but a very nice find just the same.

[smoolie671]

Yea, I saw that too. The only things that come to mind is 1. what whould their frame of reference have been for depicting that type of foot covering, and 2. could those engravings be from an earlier time period than the when the book was published?

[HildeKitten]

OMG, I wish I had a pair of those, especially that right pair (sorry off topic I know, but man, those look GREAT).

[Skull pyrate Carter]

aw, I'm gonna hafta tell Petee that yas all tryin ta revive this topic.

[Patrick Hand]

I'm gonna hafta tell Petee ....

As long as yer at it... tell 'im we miss 'im...... (but our aim be improvin' )......

[Black Anne]

So, I like the pirate boots, and, as I understand it, they are more (if not completely) Hollywood's creation.

I would like to know, if there were boots worn by pirate/sailors of the time, and what they looked like.

For some reasonI cannot access the clothing references on here, it just goes back to the main page.

The reason I want tommknow is that I wiill be looking for new boots, H/A or not!

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks,

Renee aka Black Anne

[michaelsbagley]

As a note, many of the old links are from before the Forum transitioned... And so the links are quirky, you have to manually delete the part of the URL/Address that says "forums"

so this -> https://pyracy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8564

should be edited to this -> https://pyracy.com/index.php?showtopic=8564

in order to make it work

That said, here are the links already edited for you.

The Boots we wear

Sandals and Ankle Boots in the GAoP

Boots

Edited December 14, 2008 by michaelsbagley

[Black Anne]

Thank you kindly!

[Commodore Swab]

I came across this picture and really liked the shoes that the man in white and the one in light blue are wearing. For something like PiP I think these could be easy to fabricate and if worn without socks more as sandles they could be cool and comfortable.

Does anyone have any more information on these?

[willie wobble]

try a search for latchet shoes

[blackjohn]

Or 17th century shoes will get you there too.

Sarah Juniper's site seems to be down at the moment, but if you are going to buy some shoes, she makes amazing stuff.

www.sarahjuniper.co.uk/17c.html

[CaptainSatan]

[Commodore Swab]

Intestering bit I found today, seems they make a difference as to shoes (with buckles next to them) and sea boots. Circa 1725 from Spain.

http://www.piratebrethren.com/spanishsailornotes.gif

As for what it says about the pictures . . .

Hello,

I recently received a wonderful image of Spanish sailor clothing

from the Golden Age of Piracy. I've posted it in the Files section

in my folder "Sailor's Dress." The original is located in Spain, but

was made available by John Powell via Timothy Burke to the Yahoo

site for Spanish and Mexican colonial reenactors. I have seen

similar items for Spanish colonial troops, but never with this much

detail and information. The Spanish were mighty record keepers

during their time of empire, and this is an example of it. I believe

it must be a record of the sorts of clothing and goods every sailor

in the Royal fleet ought to have. Here is more information from Tim

Burke:

"VESTUARIO Y EQUIPAGE DE UN MARINERO DE LOS NAVIOS DEL REY

(CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT OF A SAILOR OF THE SHIPS OF THE KING)

The attached print of the clothing and accessories worn and used by

Spanish sailors comes from a series of sepia pencil and wash

illustrations of regulation Spanish naval and marine uniforms,

equipment, armaments, and accessories in the collection of the

Marqués de Victoria, who compiled an album of illustrations and

documents related to Spain's naval forces between 1717 and 1756. The

album reposes in the archives of Spain's Naval Museum and, since its

discovery about fifteen years ago, has been intensely utilized by

students, scholars,living history interpreters and illustrators as

an invaluable primary source of evidence and information about

Spain's naval material culture in the first half of the eighteenth

century. This particular series of drawings was executed ca. 1725,

and one more of the set will be used in later notes about the

weapons and accoutrements of the period.

The Spanish text captions have been translated into English for ease

in interpretation . . . To my knowledge, no other source of

information so specifically defines the clothing and accessories

prescribed for sailors of any nation during this period. The

illustration also serves as a resource for the portrayal of

privateers and coast guards in St. Augustine during the period of

the War of Jenkin's Ear (1739-1743)."

Now I'd like to make a couple of comments on the translations:

The wide breeches (Calzones anchos de listado) are described

as "short breeches of lined/striped cloth." In fact, the original

caption should read "Wide breeches of striped linen."

"Chamarreta blanca o colorado" is translated as ""Short, loose

fitting white or red jacket/vest." In Spain, the chamarreta was a

sheepskin-lined vest, and it is possible that the sailors' vest was

lined with sheepskin with the fleece-side out for warmth.

One of the folded scarves is described as a "Panuelo doblado de seda

que le sirve la corbata" which translates better as "Folded scarf of

silk which serves as a neckerchief." Notice that there is

a "corbatin" to its left, which is a neck stock that has brass

fasteners, or hasps, at each end. A nearby neckerchief (Panuelo)

appears to have tassels at the corners. Since the fabric is not

mentioned, it is probably linen.

The hooded coat (Capotillo) is what we would call a "capote." The

translator here gives "pardo" as brown, but it really means

brownish, dun colored, drab, or even grey - so it belongs to those

non-descript "sad" colors of the 17th and 18th century - and

probably was just undyed mixed wool.

Do note the cap with a turned-up brim and ear flaps (bonete). This

is actually a version of the Montero cap that those of you who have

done English Civil War reenacting will recognize. The montero

originated with Spanish hunters and the upturned front peak

eventually evolved into the light infantry cap of the Seven Years

War and Revolution.

And lastly, yes, there is a silk sash with white stripes. In fact,

sashes were common right up to the 19th century with sailors from

France, Spain, Portugal, the Mediterranean and their overseas

possessions. The usual way for these cultures to tie the sash was to

wrap it several times around the waist and then tuck the ends

through in back, just above each kidney. At times they were tied on

one hip. The hanging ends, if any, were never very long.

There are many other lovely details, such as the tobacco pipe, pouch

and knife; an awl, awl case, thread and needle, and a sea chest.

I am in hopes that John Powell and Tim Burke will come through with

the picture of the equipment that is mentioned above. If so, I will

certainly pass it along.

Best wishes,

David

[blackjohn]

Yeah, my friend David Rickman posted that to our mail list some years ago.

[blackjohn]

For reference purposes, the post in which I provided the text of the email is found here.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

OK, so I have been re-reading parts of Jamesons book on piracy and privateering on Project Gutenburg and came across this to stir the pot a bit:

[/url]122. Trial of John Baptis and Peter Taffery. May 13, 1724.

The Court met and Opened according to Adjournm't by Proclamation and Ordered John Baptis and Peter Taffery, two French Men, to be brought [to] the Bar, and they were brought to the Bar accordingly and ordered to attend to the articles read agt. them for Pyracy, Robbery and Felony.

And the Register read the articles, which were the four last articles of those Exhibited against William Phillips, Isaac Lassen, etc., to which articles the sd John Baptis and Peter Taffery severally pleaded not Guilty. Then the Kings Evidences being sworn, Called and Interrogated, Deposed as follows.

William Lancy Deposed That whilst he was on board the Pyrat, up[on] their Coming up with a Cape Anne vessel, Phillips the Captain [of] the Pyrat ordered John Baptis to fetch up a Musquet, which he did, and when the Captain was going to take the Musquet [to] fire, Baptis twicht it out of his hands and fired it him[self], That Baptist was one that went on board a sloop, one [beel] Master, Armed.343

David Jaw, belonging to the Scooner [whereof] Will'm Lancy was Skipper, Deposed That John Baptis Came [on] board their Vessel with several others armed. That Baptis Came [up] to this Depont. and Damnd him and kicked him in his legs and [pointed] to his Boots, which was a sign as this Depont understood it that he wanted his Boots, and he accordingly pull'd them off and Baptist took them.

John Filmore Deposed That John Baptis and Peter Taffery, upon the rising against the Pyrates, with others fell upon James Sparkes, the Gunner of the Pyrate, and killed him and threw [him] Overboard.

Edward Cheesman Deposed That John Baptis always carried himself Civilly on board and was always for[ward] to rise upon the Pyrates. That Peter Taffery was [more active] than Baptis, that he saw him fire at vessels [two or three] times.

Henry Giles Deposed That William[2] Phillips, the Capt[tain] of the Pyrate, was always afraid of John Baptis that he would do him some damage, That Baptis was always ready and forward to rise upon the Pyrates, when they talkt of rising, That he has seen them go Armed on board Vessels, but cant say he had any share of the plunder, That Taffery was more active than Baptis.

Andrew Harradine Deposed he never saw any thing but what was Civil in Baptis and Taffery, That they were very forward upon the rising, as soon as they perceived what they were about, and were very much rejoiced when it was done and they had got their Liberty.

Then the Court ordered That all Persons should depart but the Judges and Register; and having Maturely weighed the Evidences unanimously found John Baptist and Peter Taffry not Guilty. Then the Prisoners were brought to the Bar and the President declared That the Court had found them not Guilty.

Then the Court Adjourned till the Morrow Morning.

And the Court being met according to Adjournment,344 Francisco, Pedro, and Pierro, three negros, were brought to the Bar and Arraigned, but no Evidences appearing to alledge any Acts of Pyracy against them, but all [alledging] that they were Imployed in Cooking the Kettle, The Court [unanimously] found them not [Guilty].[3]

And then after passing [some necessary orders] relating to [the] Execution of the Pyrates, etc. [The Court adjourned without] Day.[4]

[1] Baptis, it will be remembered, did not speak English; hence it was that he resorted to the expressive language of manual (and pedal) signs.

[2] John.

[3] But apparently John Baptis's new lease of life was not long. "November 2 [1726]. John Battis, a Frenchman, his son, and 3 Indians were hanged at Charlestown ferry." Diary of Jeremiah Bumstead, N.E. Hist. Gen. Reg., XV. 311. The crime was piracy.

[4] Archer and White were executed on June 2, 1724. Cotton Mather ministered to them in their last days, adding, one would think, a new horror to death. The sermon he preached at them was forthwith printed by him, The Converted Sinner ... A Sermon Preached in Boston, May 31, 1724, In the Hearing and at the Desire of certain Pirates [Archer and White], a little before their Execution, To which there is added, A more private Conference of a Minister with them (Boston, 1724). With his usual insufferable vanity, he indicates that the capture of the pirates was widely attributed to his public prayer against pirates on Sunday, Apr. 26: "Behold, before the week was out, there comes in a Vessel wherein" were the captive pirates. But the victorious mutiny against the pirates occurred on Apr. 18, and without disparaging Dr. Mather's influence in the councils of Heaven, it seems doubtful if the rising could have been caused by prayers publicly offered by him on the 26th. After the trial he adds: "One of the first Things which the Pyrates, who are now so much the Terror of them that haunt the Sea, impose on their poor Captives, is, to curse Dr. M——r. The Pyrates now strangely fallen into the Hands of Justice here, make me the first Man, whose Visits and Counsils and Prayers they beg for. Some of them under Sentence of Death, chuse to hear from me the Last Sermon they hear in the world. The Sermon is desired for Publication". Diary of Cotton Mather (Mass. Hist. Soc.), II. 722, 729.

Just thought this was cool, don't know how much longer we'll be keeping the internet connection but thought I'd try and liven up the place while I still can.

Bo

[Elena]

I loved it, and I think it is interesting. Thank you!

[IvanHenry]

I am wondering if anyone has ever seen a source for the "sea boots" shown in this 1725 Spanish Sailor's equipment. I have seen extent examples as well, and as discussed here before, they are not the 17th Century style bucket style boots often seen. There is a series of i believe, 18th Century French Explorers wearing these sea boots. So anyone have a source for purchase of this style?

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

Well even though no one chimed in didn't mean I didn't stop looking for references. Check out these from the wreck of the Vasa 1628.

[Mission]

Just a thought, but the presence of boots on a ship doesn't necessarily mean they were worn there.

I do recall an account of pirates riding horses back and forth on the deck of a captured ship (which I believe may be from Alexander Hamilton's A new account of the East Indies, 17th-18th century but I didn't record it in my notes because it is not germane to my subject.) Although they eventually got mad at the ship's crew for not having proper riding gear for them to practice their new sport so they punished them in some form or another.