The Boots We Wear (On Bucket Boots)

[hitman]

Ughhh...

Well, if we were applying the accepted (by some) pirate mythology to our south seas modern pirates...

Then they would be wearing Armani suits, Bruno Magli shoes or whatever else that would be considered high fashion.

But remember too, that according to pirate mythology wisdom, these guys are not really in it for the money, they are creating an egalitarian society and thumbing thier noses at the establishment.

And by wearing paramilitary clothing, and bandanas on their head they only make that too clear....

On a slightly different note....

[kass]

Hell, I'd drink in' em! As long as the steins aren't shaped like bucket boots..

What if the pint glasses were shaped like bucket boots?

And Josh, I don't dress like a man...

[Capt. Sterling]

And Josh, I don't dress like a man... 

Look you there now Mistress Kass! Me thinks you dress very manly indeed in that fine hunting attire, at least from the middlings upward! :)

[Gentleman of Fortune]

The latest in boots...

SEE BLACK JOHNS POST BELOW FOR GRAPHIC

I got this a few days ago, and here is the history on it.

"VESTUARIO Y EQUIPAGE DE UN MARINERO DE LOS NAVIOS DEL REY

(CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT OF A SAILOR OF THE SHIPS OF THE KING)"

"The attached print of the clothing and accessories worn and used by

Spanish sailors comes from a series of sepia pencil and wash

illustrations of regulation Spanish naval and marine uniforms,

equipment, armaments, and accessories in the collection of the

Marqu�s de Victoria, who compiled an album of illustrations and

documents related to Spain's naval forces between 1717 and 1756. The

album reposes in the archives of Spain's Naval Museum and, since its

discovery about fifteen years ago, has been intensely utilized by

students, scholars,living history interpreters and illustrators as

an invaluable primary source of evidence and information about

Spain's naval material culture in the first half of the eighteenth

century. This particular series of drawings was executed ca. 1725,

and one more of the set will be used in later notes about the

weapons and accoutrements of the period.

The Spanish text captions have been translated into English for ease

in interpretation . . . To my knowledge, no other source of

information so specifically defines the clothing and accessories

prescribed for sailors of any nation during this period. The

illustration also serves as a resource for the portrayal of

privateers and coast guards in St. Augustine during the period of

the War of Jenkin's Ear (1739-1743)."

1725 gets it pretty close, though the very end of, the GAoP. No doubt that some of the items would have been used earlier, but hard to say how early.

This reminds me a lot of the picture of the French guys at the native swimming hole. Complete with boots and capotes.

GoF

[blackjohn]

This came through on the piratebrethren mail list on 4/28, and was posted by David Rickman, an artist who some of you may be familiar with (he has done interior art for several Osprey books). David's intro went thus (and may prove to be of some use to those interested in things Spanish):

Hello,

I recently received a wonderful image of Spanish sailor clothing

from the Golden Age of Piracy. I've posted it in the Files section

in my folder "Sailor's Dress." The original is located in Spain, but

was made available by John Powell via Timothy Burke to the Yahoo

site for Spanish and Mexican colonial reenactors. I have seen

similar items for Spanish colonial troops, but never with this much

detail and information. The Spanish were mighty record keepers

during their time of empire, and this is an example of it. I believe

it must be a record of the sorts of clothing and goods every sailor

in the Royal fleet ought to have. Here is more information from Tim

Burke:

It's a brilliant find to be sure. The hooded capote looks strikingly similar to what the Venetian bargemen are wearing in the pics I posted in one of the hat threads here.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

OH NO! This thing won't die!

Shoot it again fred!

I didn't get to see the image, but would like to if it can be put up again. I still may get a pair for the horseman interpretations.

[blackjohn]

Yeah, it appears someone cut the link. If it doesn't pop back up, I'll snag the copy from the piratebrethren mail list and stick it on my site, then link it from there. Suffice to say, it's a VERY cool pic. However, I'd say the boots are not at all reminiscent of bucket boots. But they are boots, of some kind.

There's alot of other neat stuff there too. Hats, shoes, kerchiefs (sp?) and so on.

[blackjohn]

here:

http://www.piratebrethren.com/spanishsailornotes.gif

I hope I'm not violating anyone's "copyright." Someone spent time to research this, and I'm very appreciative of that.

[Tora of Tortuga]

here:

http://www.piratebrethren.com/spanishsailornotes.gif

I hope I'm not violating anyone's "copyright."  Someone spent time to research this, and I'm very appreciative of that.

Thank you Blackjohn for posting a link to the image very neat to see. And to the others who shared it with us, Thank You.

Also it is nice to see at least this is from a Spaniard's prespective, what seamen of the era wore.

~Tora of Tortuga~

[blackjohn]

I think it's very cool that folks are looking at things from the Spanish point of view. I've always believe there was/is alot to learn about pirates from the records of the Spanish, French and Dutch.

In fact, I think I might join that Spanish colonial mail list.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

It is a very interesting bit of information. I am curious though, the percentage of spanish pirates during the GAoP. I looked a list of pirate nationalities and there only seems about 20 or so listed.

I saw that there are records for 1717-1756. And it was thought that the picture we are discussing is circa 1725. I would love to see the 1717 picture.

GoF

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

From all my reading thus far, the Spanish were THE target of Pyracy in the Atlantic and Carribean/Gulf waters. It wouldn't have been a bad idea for them to have formed a privateer bunch to recover some of the losses! Seems like they just never got it with the things on this side of the pond. They never succeeded in colonizing North America considering how long they had control of the large area they did. Even when France ceded the Louisiana Territory after the F&I conflict, virtually nothing happened in the 40+ years it was under their control. It would be intresting to hear their take on these things.

[blackjohn]

It is a very interesting bit of information. I am curious though, the percentage of spanish pirates during the GAoP. I looked a list of pirate nationalities and there only seems about 20 or so listed.

I often wonder if that's a result of our culture being anglo based and if we were Spaniards we'd know of more Spanish pirates. In any case, it is obvious that the Spanish were often targets and thus...

I saw that there are records for 1717-1756.  And it was thought that the picture we are discussing is circa 1725.  I would love to see the 1717 picture.

Ditto. I'd be surprised if there were any great changes over 8 years. It's a shame this doesn't go back even farther, say into the 1680s.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Here is a link to a post that Mission made (and I think it is also at Piratesinfo.com).

I am not ready to say the lack of Spanish pirates on the list is due to an Anglo Bias... as Spain is represented with 22 and Malta has 19 and Germany clocks in at over 100.

Though Spain has had a huge influence on Naval History (especially during the 1400-1700s), there doesn't seem to be any impact on Anglo sailors clothing, and except for the French 1700 circumnavigation watercolors, we don't seem to see anyone else wearing Capotes or other clothing of Spanish origin.

Of course, I am sure I am missing some sources, so if anyone else has something, please share.

GoF

[Capt. Sterling]

I think it's very cool that folks are looking at things from the Spanish point of view. I've always believe there was/is alot to learn about pirates from the records of the Spanish, French and Dutch.

In fact, I think I might join that Spanish colonial mail list.

Try contacting the folks at the fort down in St. Augustine Florida, I had all of ten minutes to chat with them and learned quite a bit. They said alot of differences boiled down to Catholic versus Protestant as well and that no self repecting English/Welsh pirate be he a church goer or not, would have leaned toward copying in any way shape or form a Spanish Catholic.... as according to the folks at the fort, they were some of the only "civilized" folks still wearing earrings during the GAoP period the rest of Europe and England were NOT.... Like I said, only had about ten minutes but if any one is interested the soldiers down there seem to be pretty detailed about their kit and their research.... Just a thought.

Hector

[Matty Bottles]

That's interesting, but do we see the same sort of reluctance between British and French sailors? After all, although a haven of seularism now, for many years France was regarded as the champion of Catholicism. You just have to read the works of Francis Parkman and Robert Leicke to see a very real religious bias still active today.

And Spain, as a rival in the seas, really isn’t much of a player by the time the GAoP rolls around. Oh, yes, they were still quite active in the new world and therefore quite susceptible to piracy, but the Armada's back had already been broken for quite some time. There could be larger cultural forces at work, of course, but I think the mere Catholic v. Protestant claim is a little too pat for me to buy. Sorry, didn’t mean to hijack.

[Fox]

According to a survey of known pirates operating in the Caribbean 1715-1725, done by David Cordingly:

35% were English

25% colonial Americans

20% West Indian (mostly from Jamaica and Barbados)

10% Scottish

8% Welsh

2% Dutch, Swedish, Spanish, and French.

Assuming that survey to be vaguely accurate (I don't know how extensive Cordingly's research was, but I imagine it was pretty comprehensive) it seems unlikely that Spanish practices would have had a great deal of influence on the majority of pirates.

[CaptainJackRussell]

35% were English

25% colonial Americans

20% West Indian (mostly from Jamaica and Barbados)

10% Scottish

8% Welsh

2% Dutch, Swedish, Spanish, and French.

Not even just one German???...

[Matty Bottles]

What is the percentage of Spanish shipping in the Caribbean in general? That, I think, will give us a greater idea of understanding the Spanish influence (or lack thereof) in pirate/sailor dress. I'm not saying it will be greater or less, necessarily, I just think that is the number we should watch.

[Fox]

I don't know, but it was probably fairly high. At a guess, perhaps as much as a fifth. But I think the influence of Spanish seamen on pirates would have been very limited. People tend to dress in the clothes they are used to, so English, or English speaking pirates almost certainly looked mostly like Englishmen.

The other thing which raises a slight difficulty is that a lot of the "Spanish" shipping was actually hired in from other countries. Henry Avery, for example, was on his way to work for the Spaniards in the Caribbean before he turned pirate.

[Fox]

35% were English

25% colonial Americans

20% West Indian (mostly from Jamaica and Barbados)

10% Scottish

8% Welsh

2% Dutch, Swedish, Spanish, and French.

Not even just one German???...

Sorry, that 2% at the end should properly read:

"2% other nationalities, including French, Spanish, Dutch, and Swedish."

So maybe a German or two.

If it's any consolation, in 1718 the privateer George Shelvocke flew an Imperial flag because he thought that from a distance it might look like a pirate flag.

[Capt. Sterling]

Back to the boot question... and here comes that dreaded phrase "the fashion", if presenting a well turned calf was the style during the GAoP and up until the later 18th century, why cover it up with heavy boots? Even books on teaching gentlemen the proper way to bow, taught one would present their forward leg with the calf slightly turned outward to show it off and since men were known to wear padding under their stockings to beef up their calves, I would think shoes were certainly far more the rage then boots. Calves were in then not boots... whether they had them or not.

Hector

[JohnnyTarr]

I have been searching the sites and looking for evidence to those knee high boots that a lot of us wear. I can find shoes and bare feet but not the boots. Are they just part of our fantasy done by Hollywood? Were they just worn by a small part of the pirates? Hopeing for some help here.

[Rumba Rue]

Boots again....where's Foxe?

Please go back through the threads here, there's whole big on on the boots situation.

Or hopefully someone can find it for you.

[kass]

<operator voice>Mr. Foxe is not at home at the moment. Would you care to leave a message?</operator voice>

Yeah, Johnny. They really weren't worn in the Golden Age of Piracy -- not by seamen at least. Bucket boots are a horseman's thing, and you don't really see people walking about in them. Not in the Golden Age of Piracy in any case. 100 years earlier, yeah. But not in this period.

They're sexy and cool. But they're Hollywood. 100%

As Rue said, there's a whole 24 page thread on the topic. It's not a rant or a flame far. There's actually a lot of good information in it. So if you want to know the true and full answer to your question, go here.