Any others dissapoointed with POTC 2?

[Iron Bess]

I for one wish that number 3 wouldn't be coming out so soon as that will be the end of Jack Sparrow and we won't ever see him again on the big screen. boo hoo...

Hmmmmmmm......?

Someone told me this weekend that they had heard they were already preparing 4. I told them until I read it around here, I was believing nothing of the kind. The same person also told me that 3 was done and they were just holding off until next year.

(So which is it Bess? )

Well, I know what is now*official* for Disney studios....

Until it's given up to be *Official* to the public at large I can only tell you to keep yer powder dry mates.

(How's that???)

[McBarnacle]

I have to hold my hands up and say that I still haven't seen the film yet. :angry:

[macstink]

you've only just watched the first one 'Barney!!!

you take years to get round to watching films!

[McBarnacle]

you've only just watched the first one 'Barney!!!

you take years to get round to watching films!

Not quite true Quartermaster. I did watch each of the Lord of the Rings films the day I bought the DVD.

Although, I must admit, there are a couple of my DVDs I've yet to watch even though I've had the films for a couple of years or so!

[Bootstrap Bill Turner]

I saw the first one 13 times in the theatre. I waited excitedly for the second one. Unfortuantely I saw the second one once and that was enough. A bridge to the third movie? Excuse me? I'm an unsatisfied consumer as it is, and you're telling me that Disney threw togther a script and called it a sequel just to get another year of merchandising and try luring people back to the big screen to watch yet another disappointing special effects laden 'real movie' with barely a plot? I'm disappointed and angry, if indeed I bought a ticket to a bridge and not a movie.

- What a Lame enterance.

-The stupid tribal thing. I'm grateful really, I got to go get popcorn for my daughter and didn't miss anything, they were still on the damned wheel when I got back.

-Jack Sparrow was not Jack Sparrow. He completely lost his edge. He was incompetent, lazy, his wit was gone, and unlike the first movie he came across less than intelligent.

-Loved Norrington. Thought I'd hate it but didn't. Someone please tell me why Norrington turned stupid and gave the heart to the EITC geek? He has the heart. He owns the heart and therefore the Sea. Why oh why would he give it to such a trustworthy individual like that man?

-Someone told Elizabeth that she was a girl! Yay!

-Bootstrap Bill. Oh god don't get me started...the man had a starfish in his face.

-Will ...whatever

Its just a bad movie. There are no open ended questions in this movie. Plainly its just a very badly written movie. The first movie was adequately written. The one and ONLY thing that put the original movie on the map was Johnny Depp's interpretation of Jack Sparrow. The story boards are everywhere and the Jack Sparrow in those drawings was nowhere near the genius we saw on the screen. Thank God. The movie will probably remain my personal favorite for eternity. I'll just try and forget that Disney screwed up another sequel. Honestly, I don't think I'll see the next one in the theatre. Maybe I'll rent it when it comes out on DVD.

Anyway, I thought I'd give my two cents.

[jackedjill]

I'd be a spawn of a whore to say it was a bad movie. I'm just not saying it was worth theater admission. I'm going to say, that one twas a rental. That one is a drinking flick. After a brew or a dozen it's a fine ole time.

[Capt.Trade.Wind]

My two cents.

The movie could have been better, but I think it would have been better if they had combined 2 & 3 into one film. Very much like The Matrix, 1 was good 2 sucked and three was good. Watch 2 & 3 together and you have a pretty good film all in all. I think POC will be the same way.

[Bootstrap Bill Turner]

'Twas a rental I'll drink to that!

[Caraccioli]

I saw the first one 13 times in the theatre.  I waited excitedly for the second one.

I saw the first one six times in the theatre. I waited with trepidation for the second one... resurrecting Barbossa...pah. (I'm still bitter. <-so's my dog Phydeux) Plus it's hard for studios not to go the "They loved it the first time, so let's give them more and exaggerate it to the point of caricature!" route.

-Jack Sparrow was not Jack Sparrow.  He completely lost his edge.  He was incompetent, lazy, his wit was gone, and unlike the first movie he came across less than intelligent.

Well....I don't know if I'd go that far. There were a couple of problems with Jack's role and some of them were just inevitable.

First, he wasn't fresh. Point of fact, he can never be fresh again - we know him. That may be as responsible as anything for your perception that he lost his edge.

Second, he was a supporting character in the first movie - the main story was about Elizabeth and Will with the Barbossa/Black Pearl/Captain Jack story being the backdrop against which Will and Liz play out their drama. So Depp could just sort of mince through scenes, mugging and stealing them at will (or at least, from Will).

But they practically had to bring him to the fore in this movie. Depp did too good a job and now his character is a victim of Depp's success. While his characterization was really interesting in the first movie, he was still sort of a one note Johnny. (Heh.) So it's tough for him to carry the second movie without adding dimension to him - which waters the character down some.

Third (building upon the above), the main character has to give the audience something to latch on to. If you ever watch director VOs in these kinds of movies, they always talk about how some character in the movie gives the audience a reference point. In the first movie it was Will. He was thrust into the world of piracy and had to "discover" many things - allowing us to discover them with him. In this movie, I think Sparrow is more the central character. In order for us to identify with him, he can't be all sass and duplicity. They have to flesh him out more - make him a bit more human so we can identify with him. Now you have a conflict - he's not the character he was in the first movie, he's a bit softer.

-Loved Norrington.  Thought I'd hate it but didn't.  Someone please tell me why Norrington turned stupid and gave the heart to the EITC geek?  He has the heart.  He owns the heart and therefore the Sea.  Why oh why would he give it to such a trustworthy individual like that man?

Norrington is a company man. He always was. As for the guy he gave the heart to...he's the new villain of the piece. You can't have a movie without creating discomfort for the audience. That means creating someone we can all universally hate who gets the upper hand. Watch any TV drama that lasts and what do you find? Just such a character. Davy Jones will be redeemed somehow, his crew released or satiated or some such and the EITC company "geek" will get his due as the villain. Bet on it. (Note: I have no knowledge of the 3rd movie and studiously avoid the information on the web regarding it. This is just speculation based on Hollywood sequel SOP and musical cues (believe it or not.))

The one and ONLY thing that put the original movie on the map was Johnny Depp's interpretation of Jack Sparrow.

I'd have to agree that Sparrow was what drew the crowds to the first movie. Everything else had been done before. Of course, it was all done here in excellent fashion which helped. One of the things I really missed in the second movie was the excellent background character portrayals, as I mentioned in my first post to this topic. In the previous movie we had Murtogg and Mulroy, Gillette, Twigg, Koehler , the prisoners in the cell next to Jack's, the Harbormaster and so on. In this movie, we had Jones' crew, but they were so covered in makeup that you couldn't tell them apart. Even the scenes in Tortuga were less interesting as I recall them because the action focused too closely on Depp's doings.

[captjacksparrowsavvvy]

Someone told me this weekend that they had heard they were already preparing 4. I told them until I read it around here, I was believing nothing of the kind. The same person also told me that 3 was done and they were just holding off until next year.

Disney is not preparing number 4. The script is not being written per Ted Elliot and Terry Russio.

Any speculations that are surfacing on the internet are rumors and cannot be used in any future POTC scripts,that being a legal issue with Disney and the writers, again per Ted and Terry.

[Caraccioli]

Someone told me this weekend that they had heard they were already preparing 4. I told them until I read it around here, I was believing nothing of the kind. The same person also told me that 3 was done and they were just holding off until next year.

Disney is not preparing number 4. The script is not being written per Ted Elliot and Terry Russio.

Any speculations that are surfacing on the internet are rumors and cannot be used in any future POTC scripts,that being a legal issue with Disney and the writers, again per Ted and Terry.

Hm. Iron Bess hints that something may (or may not) be in the works. I know for a fact that she works for Disney in the back office. What's the lineage of your absolute knowledge?

[captjacksparrowsavvvy]

Hm. Iron Bess hints that something may (or may not) be in the works. I know for a fact that she works for Disney in the back office. What's the lineage of your absolute knowledge?

The writers themselves, Terry Russio and Ted Elliot. Since POTC came out, they have been very vocal on their website within their legal obligations of course.

Here's the scoop from Terry.............................................

Oh come on ... everyone knows that ...

Posted by Terry on Monday, 9 October 2006, at 3:46 p.m., in response to Re: POTC 4 Rumour...., posted by Tina G on Monday, 9 October 2006, at 3:37 p.m.

... the Will Turner character is killed off in Pirates 3.

kidding, kidding.

It's pretty nuts. There hasn't been one minute of work done on Pirates 4 by anybody yet. There haven't even been any deals made, nobody knows who would even be making the decisions yet, no one know who is even going to be invited to make the decisions yet.

Pure speculation.

[captjacksparrowsavvvy]

- What a Lame enterance. 

-The stupid tribal thing.  I'm grateful really, I got to go get popcorn for my daughter and didn't miss anything, they were still on the damned wheel when I got back.

-Jack Sparrow was not Jack Sparrow.  He completely lost his edge.  He was incompetent, lazy, his wit was gone, and unlike the first movie he came across less than intelligent.

-Loved Norrington.  Thought I'd hate it but didn't.  Someone please tell me why Norrington turned stupid and gave the heart to the EITC geek?  He has the heart.  He owns the heart and therefore the Sea.  Why oh why would he give it to such a trustworthy individual like that man?

-Someone told Elizabeth that she was a girl!  Yay!

-Bootstrap Bill.  Oh god don't get me started...the man had a starfish in his face. 

-Will ...whatever

Its just a bad movie.  There are no  open ended questions in this movie.  Plainly its just a very badly written movie.  The first movie was adequately written. 

You raise many points in, which you believe have made the movie a bad movie.

I look at those same points and find most notable exceptions to each.

-The entrance: More than just the appearance of Jack Sparrow. Jack's first realization of his own mortality. "It's funny what a man will do to forstall his final judgement" including an escape in a occupied coffin.

-The tribal thing: "And then they made me their chief" only now Jack has become a GOD." I am chief! Want big fire!

Oi! Maboogie snickel-snickel. Tout de suite! More wood!"

not to mention the "ball licky licky" which got by the Disney censors. There are so many fabulous lines along with the perfect timing and deliverance so brilliantly done by Johnny.

-Jack Sparrow: I'll dwell on your comments about Jack.

I felt Jack was Jack right from the start. Trying to chase that undead monkey and shoot it

GIBBS: "You know that don't do no good"

JACK: "It does me"

"Where is that monkey, I want to shoot something" (Where are the writers, I want to kill them)

Jack bs'ing Will again:"Because the finding this finds you incapacitorially finding and/or locating and your discovering the detecting of a way to save your dolly belle ol'... what's-her-face. Savvy?" (Uh-huh. Well, Mr. Turner, I've changed me mind. If you spring me from this cell I swear on pain of death I shall take you to the Black Pearl and your bonny lass. Do we have an accord?)

Gibbs: I'll watch your back.

Jack Sparrow: It's me front I'm worried about.

with reference to the black spot myth of self gratification - the line that Gore put in, not Johnny

Jack Sparrow: My eyesight's as good as ever, just so you know

The first confrontation on the Pearl between Davy Jones and Jack is absolutely brilliant. As Davy is walking towards Jack and Jack is leaning backwards, mimicking every step that Davy takes.

Davy Jones: I keep the boy. Ninety-nine souls-uh. But I wonder, Sparrow, can you live with this? Can you condemn an innocent man - a friend-uh - to a lifetime of servitude, in your name while you roam free?

Jack Sparrow: Yep! I'm good with it. Shall we seal it in blood? I mean... mm-mm - ink?

Tortuga: Brilliant choreography. Watching Jack duck,swerve,dip and swagger his way thru the flying objects all the while changing hats is fantastic.

Jack takes Elizabeth on the Pearl(Bad luck to have a woman on board, far worse not to type reasoning here as well) by duping her into finding the chest in order to save Will:

Darling, I am truly unhappy to have to tell you this but... through an unfortunate and *entirely* unforeseeable series of circumstances that have nothing whatsoever to do with me, poor William has been press-ganged into Davy Jones' crew.

Jack has conned another. He's conned Will. He's duped Davy Jones into an extra 3 days, and now he's got Elizabeth snookered. All for his own self, not anyone elses.

"What type of man would trade a ship for a man?" "A pirate"

Jack: Let us examine that claim for a moment, former Commodore, shall we? Who was it that at the very moment you had a notorious pirate safely behind bars saw fit to free said pirate and take your dearly beloved all to hisself... aye? So whose fault is it really that you've ended up a rum-pot deckhand what takes orders from pirates?

(Jack: Not if you're the one doing the ambushing. I go in, I convince Barbossa to send his men out with their little boats. You and your mates return to the Dauntless and blast the bejesus outta them with your little cannons, eh? What do you have to lose?)

Jack hasn't changed, only maxed out his options.

Jack is still trying to get Lizzie in the hammock:

Jack: Oh, yes. But the company is infinitely better than last time, I think. The scenery has definitely improved.

Jack Sparrow: You know Lizzy,I am captain of a ship. And being captain of a ship, I could in fact perform a marr-rri-age. Right here. Right on this deck. Right... *now*!

with sexual overtones brilliantly added by Johnny:

Elizabeth: Why doesn't your compass work?

Jack: My compass works fine(and Jack looks down at his "compass" and then the camera gives us the famous cannon shot)

(there'll be no living with her after this and Elizabeth, it would have never worked between us, I'm sorry)

Jack, in one of the most tender moments in the movie, Jack becomes the hero, not by returning to The Black Pearl, but:

Gibbs: Jack, the Pearl.

Jack: She's only a ship, mate.

This had to be the hardest thing Jack has ever said or done in his life.

I have probably over exhausted the readership with this response but I do belive that this script is another brilliant piece written by Ted and Terry.

Seeing it 31 times and still yearning to see it again and again.

[Bootstrap Bill Turner]

Caraccioli: Great insight.

captjacksparrowsavvvy:

You need to get yourself a girl mate.

[Christine]

captjacksparrowsavvvy:

You need to get yourself a girl mate.

I think she is a girl, so unless she goes that way, which I doubt, I think you mean:

"you need to get yourself a guy mate!"

[captjacksparrowsavvvy]

captjacksparrowsavvvy:

You need to get yourself a girl mate.

Are you offering? I already have a male mate, thank you very much!

Having seen DMC this afternoon, I found several pivotal points of the movie that I didn't see the other times. It's hard not to focus on Johnny's Jack Sparrow, that being unfair to the other actors and actress who add spice to the movie. Naomi Harris is fantastic as Tia and Tom Hollander is a plus to any movie. They represent the "dichotomy of good and evil". The scenes are intertwined in many ways, branched out, and left open. It will be interesting to see what T&T have come up with for AWE.

T&T have been lambasted to the ground and back by several critics and fans, yet always managed to explain their script decisions without yielding ~classy guys.

[Mission]

After resisting buying this movie for years, I finally decided to get it since I could do so for cheap. It then sat in my movie collection for months until last night when I wanted to see Patton, but didn't have it. So I watched this instead.

You know what's wrong with this movie (as of this viewing)? It's the Man with the Golden Gun of the pirate movies. There are chunks of things going on, all strung together by a somewhat-less-than-satisfying storyline. (Well, two somewhat-less-than-satisfying storylines - one about Jack being chased by Davy Jones to get him to pay up and the other about the EITC trying to get hold of Davy Jones heart... or chest... or key... or whatever,)

Some of the chunks worked really well - the bar scene on Tortuga, the fight on the water wheel, Davy Jones weird crew & kraken. Some of the chunks worked well enough, but seemed as much like filler as anything to me - Davy Jones key & chest & heart & whatever, the menace of Lord Cutler Becket and his slimy assistant, the Will & Elizabeth story. And some of it was bad - the hokey voodoo nonsense, the Pelagosas, the three man sword fight.

But it all seemed like a bunch of "Ooh, Ahh" set-pieces strung together with two somewhat-less-than-satisfying storylines. The first movie flowed from thing to thing. This movie seemed more like, "Look! Will & Elizabeth arrested! Look! Evil corporation trying to take over the world! Look! Headhunters! Look! A scary sea-monster!" Etc.

Still, it could have been a lot worse. (It could have been like Back to the Future 2. Bleh.)

[Cascabel]

I just wish they would come up with a pirate movie that is actually good and realistic. Maybe not necessarily 100% authentic in detail, but not a POTC-type pirate-themed fantasy movie, or one of those 1940's pretty boy Errol Flynn "Showcasing-the-Star" productions, but a believeable pirate story with good production values, rather than something cheaply made. Sort of the gritty quality of the Heston version of Treasure Island.

The 1950 version of Treasure Island was not too bad, except for the way too pretty and well-scrubbed looking kid that played Jim Hawkins. I liked Robert Newton's over the top rendition of Long John almost as much as Heston's "Treacherous Bastard" version of him

[Mission]

I wonder what would happen if they made a truly realistic movie? They have an amazing amount of info on Edward Low, probably the most successful pirate of the 'golden age.' My bet it that the public wouldn't accept it without all the trappings they expect - precise ship battles, bucket boots, elegant sword fights, a heroic upstart and all that stuff. Stevenson's Treasure Island created the romantic vision of pirates, Hollywood glommed on to it and they can't put the djinn back in the bottle. Nor do I suspect a 50s style movie would sell well at this point. Look at all the pirate movies in the traditional style that basically crashed and burned at the box office after the 50s and early 60s.