Any others dissapoointed with POTC 2?

[Caraccioli]

If you accept the theory that any changes made in the timeline cause the timeline to branch into separate dimensions, it could be both.

Or the shot just hit Barbossa's futuristic temperature regulation system (runs on oil), which sent his body into shock after not having experinced normal Caribbean temperatures in years, and when he recovered he was fine.

Or maybe the monkey's actually the corporeal form of the ancient Babylonian demigod Messitoutou and s/he resurrected him.

[Christine]

Oh, geez! Barbossa was resurrected by the vodoo woman Tia Dalma. Hello, these movies have paranormal/supernatural themes to it. Bringing the dead back to life is the norm with these Pirate movies. In the first one it was cursed pirates walking around and now we have walking and talking squid and other crustacean. So bringing Barbossa back from the dead by way of vodoo magic is quite normal! And if Jack did get killed he'll be resurrected too. Unless he's just sitting in the belly of the Kraken waiting to be rescued, like Jonah did with the whale-lol!

[Red-Handed Jill]

Jack Sparrow did pilfer a number of things from Tia Dalma - perhaps one of those items has protective properties.

And it seems to me that typically, the second movie in a trilogy is generally the weakest, particularly when it is a trilogy situation and not just a series of shows about a group of characters (i.e. Star Trek, 007 etc.) or a semi-trilogy with a kind of story arc, but the movies can stand on their own (e.g. Terminator, Alien, etc.)

[The Doctor]

Once again, allow me to reiterate, ad libitum, ad nauseum... These are fundamentally monster movies in a pyrate setting. So yes, you'll get undead this and that. Ressurected someones. Nasty beasties from the depths. Get the hell over it! Treat them as monster flicks, and it all makes sense. Stop overanalysing! Enjoy! Eat your popcorn and jujubees, and accept it for what it is!

[Caraccioli]

Oh, geez! Barbossa was resurrected by the vodoo woman Tia Dalma.

Voodoo. Pah. Hokey. Just plain pitifully hokey.

Now if it were the spiritual essence of Captain Zigor, whose spirit had been embodied in the canvas of the painting that was on the backside of the pile of gold where Barbossa was killed - and he reached through the painting and raised him from the dead...then you'd have something.

___________

A long while back, there was a discussion going on here about a location where part of the movies were going to take place. I think this is where the next movie is headed. The end of this movie seems to have all but verified what we talked about - it ties in nicely with what's happened so far.

[Caraccioli]

Stop overanalysing! Enjoy! Eat your popcorn and jujubees, and accept it for what it is!

Red-Handed Jill and I are NTs; we like overanalyzing.

[The Doctor]

Then may you always be disappointed. Suspension of disbelief is a hallmark of the monster movie genre. Accept it, or accept disappointment. These movies will never make cinematic history. But they're fun celluloid confections. Enjoy them, and revel in them. Honestly, ya'll are starting to act like Trekkies!

[Caraccioli]

Then may you always be disappointed.  Suspension of disbelief is a hallmark of the monster movie genre.  Accept it, or accept disappointment. 

Aw, gee...c'mon. Don't tell me what I can and can't do vis-a-vis movies. I'll decide for myself. I don't tell you what to think about movies. (I do say what I think of them, but what would we do around here all day, if not stuff like that?)

These movies will never make cinematic history.

See, I really enjoyed the first one. Saw it several times in the theatre. In fact, it's the only movie I've ever seen more than twice in a theatre.

[Capn_Enigma]

Don't tell me what I can and can't do vis-a-vis movies. I'll decide for myself.

That's your prerogative.

But then, on the other hand, this whole discussion is pointless.

I liked the movie, and I will soon see it for an encore, which is something I very rarely do.

[The Doctor]

Look, mate, my point is that these are ulimately celluloid confections. We get a laugh and a thrill, and 2.5 hours of our lives are just a bit brighter. We get to think and care about something other than ourselves. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think or feel about movies. Movies are what they are - entertainment. Some are excellent and thought-provoking, and some are little more than mind-numbing garbage. PotC2 is an improvised 2nd act of an unitentional trilogy. I think they can pull it off. I've been wrong before, but I'm willing to wager good money on this one. :)

[Cpt Sophia M Eisley]

Mad Jack - You may not think that you're telling folks how to think about how they should feel about the cinema, but classifying it as something, and saying something to the point of "and that's the way it is" certainly sounds like it. You have the right to say it, but, not everyone has to agree.

Cpt Enigma - conversely, one could say the same thing about all of the positive threads, but you'd laugh at that too (like I am now about this), right?

Point is, folks are going to like the movie, or they aren't going to like it, or they may be in the middle. Everyone's going to talk about what they like or don't like in mind numbing detail, it's what humans do! Let the folks talk, and if yah don't like it, head on over to another thread that you're more inclined to post on and feel good about.

[The Doctor]

Mad Jack - You may not think that you're telling folks how to think about how they should feel about the cinema, but classifying it as something, and saying something to the point of "and that's the way it is" certainly sounds like it. You have the right to say it, but, not everyone has to agree.

You're point's well taken, Sophia. I got overzealous in making my point. Thanks for keeping me honest!

[Black Hearted Pearl]

Pirates! Play nice or I'll blow holes in all your ships!

I know, I know. You've all made up, but I couldn't resist saying it just the same.

[Caraccioli]

Maybe it was a doppleganger that Barbossa created to go and be killed by Jack while the real Barbossa consulted with his spiritual medium (or possibly his spiritual large), Mea Culpa who was advising him on how to get rid of Jack once and for all? Now he can mislead the crew of the Pearl, leaving Elizabeth to steal one of the rowboats and go save Jack...

(I could keep doing this all day. Where's Cire? He's never around when you need him.)

[Maggie Pricklebottom]

It's pretty funny that some are so offended that not everyone thought this was an Oscar worthy, top notch, now I have seen the best pirate movie ever so I can die in peace movie. It was typical sequel, flat, ...but one with excellent marketing and merchandising.

People, none of you are the know all end all....everyone is entitled to their own opinion, okay?

And as we learned from the Jedi, may the Force be with you (wink)

[Christine]

Maybe it was a doppleganger that Barbossa created to go and be killed by Jack while the real Barbossa consulted with his spiritual medium (or possibly his spiritual large), Mea Culpa who was advising him on how to get rid of Jack once and for all? Now he can mislead the crew of the Pearl, leaving Elizabeth to steal one of the rowboats and go save Jack...

(I could keep doing this all day. Where's Cire? He's never around when you need him.)

*rolls eyes*

First of all, this is way off topic now, but what else is new, happens all the time. And 2nd, if you want to sit there and over-analysing a fun movie then go ahead! Vodoo magic and resurrection makes this most sense for these types of movies. I'm almost certain he was brought back by some sort of vodoo by Tia Dalma. But then again, who cares, I'm just glad he's back! So go ahead, enjoy over-analysing the hell out of it! I'll be sitting back and just enjoying these fun movies!

[Capn_Enigma]

Well put, Christine!

[Lady Seahawke]

First, I will agree that the movie is pirates...DUH! and supernatural i.e..undead pirates...(1st movie) DUH DUH!!

But there still needs to be a logical (even if it other dimension) sequence of events. Of course then again, the monkey never gave his coin back...ie. still undead. But, thought ALL the coins had to go backand each that had a coin had to offer blood repaid in order for even one to be mortal again. So now the rules were changed. Now we have an undead monkey but the humans are mortal. Story continuity is lacking.

Also, be interesting to see how the two (dang it can't remember their names) captured on the first boat escaped to find their way back on a ship. I know the Govenor pardoned Will and his daughter...don't think that went for any of Barbossa's crew.

Again, yes I can suspend natural order of things, I do it in my writing...but even then the new order needs to follow a type of logic in order to be believeable...in the new set of circumstances.

OK, ask any of those writing with me...and they will tell you that story continuity is a big thing with my writing.

In my humble opinion this one had to many holes in it.

[Christine]

First, I will agree that the movie is pirates...DUH! and supernatural i.e..undead pirates...(1st movie) DUH DUH!!

But there still needs to be a logical (even if it other dimension) sequence of events.  Of course then again, the monkey never gave his coin back...ie. still undead.  But, thought ALL the coins had to go backand each that had a coin had to offer blood repaid  in order for even one to be mortal again.   So now the rules were changed.    Now we have an undead monkey but the humans are mortal. Story continuity is lacking. 

Also, be interesting to see how the two (dang it can't remember their names) captured on the first boat escaped to find their way back on a ship. I know the Govenor pardoned Will and his daughter...don't think that went for any of Barbossa's crew.

It's quite easy to figure out. It's a new curse for the monkey, only he is cursed. He had to put the coin back and give his blood along with everyone else or else the first curse would not have been lifted. After all the coins were put back and the blood repaid that curse was over. The chest is just sitting there. If anyone or anything pulls out a coin again, that person or thing is cursed. In this case it was the monkey, only he is cursed and will only be the one to repay with blood if he wants to be normal again. If anyone else pulls a coin out too they also will be cursed right along with the monkey. No rules were changed that's the way the curse works.

Also, about Pintel and Ragetti, the most likely guess is they escaped from jail. Not too big a mystery there.

[JoshuaRed]

Especially since they had the famous dog with the keys in their rowboat when they found where the Pearl was beached.

[Cpt Sophia M Eisley]

Who's analyzing now, huh?

I'm kidding...but see, this is provoking some very interesting discussion. Folks are sitting here on various sides trying to either figure out the whos, whys and hows of DMC. It may be obvious to some, and not to others. For me, I didn't sense a backstory to what's been brought up so far. Perhaps all will be further illuminated upon in PoTC 3. Perhaps the backstories are merely speculative (similar to the "stories" told about some of the Disney attractions), meaning they might seem obvious to us, but on the side of the writers, they really never fleshed out the storyline that much.

[Mission]

It's quite easy to figure out.  It's a new curse for the monkey, only he is cursed.  He had to put the coin back and give his blood along with everyone else or else the first curse would not have been lifted.  After all the coins were put back and the blood repaid that curse was over.  The chest is just sitting there.  If anyone or anything pulls out a coin again, that person or thing is cursed.  In this case it was the monkey, only he is cursed and will only be the one to repay with blood if he wants to be normal again.  If anyone else pulls a coin out too they also will be cursed right along with the monkey.  No rules were changed that's the way the curse works. 

Actually, the writers explain this in their VO for the original movie. Each person/group who takes something from the chest is covered by their own curse. They talk about this specifically in regard to Jack taking a coin - Jack had one curse on him, Barbossa's crew had another curse on them. The writers realized that this was confusing, so rather than explain it, they just had Jack put both coins back simultanously, removing any obligation to explain the complicated way the curse works. This saves the audience from having to think too hard.

Now the monkey has a new curse on him. If someone else takes a coin, they'll have a curse on them, seperate from the one on the monkey. (The newly accursed do not have to find the monkey and repay his blood in order to lift their curse according to what was said on the writer's VO. Seriously, go listen to it when the end scenes are taking place.)

Also, about Pintel and Ragetti, the most likely guess is they escaped from jail. Not too big a mystery there.

Same as how Jack got into the coffin. Somewhere I read that Jack, Ragetti and Pintel's escape was written and possibly filmed, but it was cut out because the movie was too long. If it was filmed, I bet it will be in the Extras on the DVD.

[Christine]

It's quite easy to figure out.  It's a new curse for the monkey, only he is cursed.  He had to put the coin back and give his blood along with everyone else or else the first curse would not have been lifted.  After all the coins were put back and the blood repaid that curse was over.  The chest is just sitting there.  If anyone or anything pulls out a coin again, that person or thing is cursed.  In this case it was the monkey, only he is cursed and will only be the one to repay with blood if he wants to be normal again.  If anyone else pulls a coin out too they also will be cursed right along with the monkey.  No rules were changed that's the way the curse works. 

Actually, the writers explain this in their VO for the original movie. Each person/group who takes something from the chest is covered by their own curse. They talk about this specifically in regard to Jack taking a coin - Jack had one curse on him, Barbossa's crew had another curse on them. The writers realized that this was confusing, so rather than explain it, they just had Jack put both coins back simultanously, removing any obligation to explain the complicated way the curse works. This saves the audience from having to think too hard.

Now the monkey has a new curse on him. If someone else takes a coin, they'll have a curse on them, seperate from the one on the monkey. (The newly accursed do not have to find the monkey and repay his blood in order to lift their curse according to what was said on the writer's VO. Seriously, go listen to it when the end scenes are taking place.)

Yes, I've heard that, but it doesn't make sense. Barbossa and his whole crew would have been freed from the curse a long time ago if it worked that way. They each put back the coin they pulled out and placed their blood on it. But it doesn't work that way in the movie. Not all the coins were put back, Wil Turner's was still out so all were still cursed. And then Jack pulls one out too. If Wil's was put back in, but Jack's stayed out they'd all still be cursed. All the coins must be returned if pulled out. What the writers say doesn't go with that whole story behind the chest that Barbossa tells. It's simple, you pull out a coin, you're cursed and must spill some blood on the coin and return it. If someone else also pulls out a coin before you return your piece, you're screwed until they do the same. The chest has 882 pieces, it must always have that amount. How amusing, they have the curse go one way, with the story they have Barbossa tell. And then afterwards say something different. I don't think they really know how they want the curse to go.

Well, anyway, the curse thing has always been my beef. I watched the 1st movie a lot and really paid attention to that stuff. What the writers say contradicts what they actually did in the movie. I'm going by what actually happened in the movie, not what they said after.

[Cire]

(I could keep doing this all day. Where's Cire? He's never around when you need him.)

Would you forgive me if I said I had my head down the toilet for a bit, before collapsing into bed unconcious?

I didn't know you needed me. I'm flattered.

I think it does make sense Christine.. although I'm at a loss to explain it any better. Maybe I'm just a nutter, as I thought Jack's curse was separate the first time I saw it, without the VO.

[Christine]

I think it does make sense Christine.. although I'm at a loss to explain it any better. Maybe I'm just a nutter, as I thought Jack's curse was separate the first time I saw it, without the VO.

But if you also remember, Jack cuts up his hand and tosses the coin up to Wil who also cuts his hand and drops both coins into the chest. Right there that shows all 882 pieces must be returned or else the curse continues. If Jack didn't return his piece as well the curse would continue, one coin would still be missing.